Any advice on Cramerotti frames?

meckle said:

OK, here is the story. I am fairly new to road biking but have fallen
in love with the sport after making the transition from mtb. I
currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am looking to
upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

I assume by "compliant" you mean a smoother, less harsh ride. How about
switching to slightly wider tires with slightly less pressure?

Quoted message said:

I have about 1200.00 to spend and have been looking at both used and
new frames. Because I currently own a Cannondale I have been lookng at
a used *caad 7* frame well within my price range but am also interested
in a *Cramerotti Fiamma*.

Quoted message said:

Open to suggestions as well as opinions between these two. I know that
many of you will suggest riding the bikes and I have done that and
between the Crameotti and the Cannondale it seems a difficult call.

A lot depends on you. Your height/weight, intended use, road conditions,
etc. If you didn't notice much difference in the test ride, then go with
whichever is cheaper or fits better. But I'm not sure you really need a
new bike. What will the new bike do that the old one won't?

Art Harris

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

OK, here is the story. I am fairly new to road biking but have fallen
in love with the sport after making the transition from mtb. I
currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am looking to
upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

A frame upgrade is not going to make the ride more compliant. Try fatter
tires are a lower pressure.
-------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

OK, here is the story. I am fairly new to road biking but have
fallen in love with the sport after making the transition from mtb.
I currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am
looking to upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

A frame upgrade is not going to make the ride more compliant. Try
fatter tires are a lower pressure.

I absolutely disagree on that. I did a test ride on a Trek 2300 ( Alu ) and
a Trek 5200 ( Carbon). Both have the identical geometry according to Trek
and they were the same size frames. The difference in feel, comfort and
handling was significant.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

OK, here is the story. I am fairly new to road biking but have
fallen in love with the sport after making the transition from

mtb.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am
looking to upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

A frame upgrade is not going to make the ride more compliant. Try
fatter tires are a lower pressure.

I absolutely disagree on that. I did a test ride on a Trek 2300 ( Alu

) and

Quoted message said:

a Trek 5200 ( Carbon). Both have the identical geometry according to

Trek

Quoted message said:

and they were the same size frames. The difference in feel, comfort

and

Quoted message said:

handling was significant.

Question, were the tires, and more importantly, tire pressures the
same?

bfd said:

Per Elmsäter said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

> OK, here is the story. I am fairly new to road biking but have
> fallen in love with the sport after making the transition from mtb.
> I currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am
> looking to upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

A frame upgrade is not going to make the ride more compliant. Try
fatter tires are a lower pressure.

I absolutely disagree on that. I did a test ride on a Trek 2300 (
Alu ) and a Trek 5200 ( Carbon). Both have the identical geometry
according to Trek and they were the same size frames. The difference
in feel, comfort and handling was significant.

Question, were the tires, and more importantly, tire pressures the
same?

This was not a laboratory test and I did not check tire brand and pressure.
However I kind of figure they were the standard issue from Trek and that the
LBS guy pumped them up to a decent pressure.
However I assure you that the differences were bigger than any you'd notice
between different tires, widths and pressures 😉
Since I bought one of them I can also say that in the following two years
have I not been able to duplicate the same harsh ride as on the other model.
Even though I've traveled all sorts of roads, tires and tire pressures since
then.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Quoted message said:

From: "Per Elmsäter"

Quoted message said:

This was not a laboratory test and I did not check tire brand and pressure.
However I kind of figure they were the standard issue from Trek and that the
LBS guy pumped them up to a decent pressure.
However I assure you that the differences were bigger than any you'd notice
between different tires, widths and pressures 😉
Since I bought one of them I can also say that in the following two years
have I not been able to duplicate the same harsh ride as on the other model.
Even though I've traveled all sorts of roads, tires and tire pressures since
then.

For curiousity's sake, what was the most pressure you put in any of your tires?
--TP

Tom Paterson said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Per Elmsäter"

Quoted message said:

This was not a laboratory test and I did not check tire brand and
pressure. However I kind of figure they were the standard issue from
Trek and that the LBS guy pumped them up to a decent pressure.
However I assure you that the differences were bigger than any you'd
notice between different tires, widths and pressures 😉
Since I bought one of them I can also say that in the following two
years have I not been able to duplicate the same harsh ride as on
the other model. Even though I've traveled all sorts of roads, tires
and tire pressures since then.

For curiousity's sake, what was the most pressure you put in any of
your tires? --TP

On my 23 mm tires I usually run between 100 - 130 psi depending on the road.
110 psi is pretty much standard issue on the roads around where I live.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

I absolutely disagree on that. I did a test ride on a Trek 2300 ( Alu ) and
a Trek 5200 ( Carbon). Both have the identical geometry according to Trek
and they were the same size frames. The difference in feel, comfort and
handling was significant.

Let me guess -- whatever was more expensive felt better.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Per Elmsäter said:

I absolutely disagree on that. I did a test ride on a Trek 2300 (
Alu ) and a Trek 5200 ( Carbon). Both have the identical geometry
according to Trek and they were the same size frames. The difference
in feel, comfort and handling was significant.

Let me guess -- whatever was more expensive felt better.

Wrong. They were actually selling for the same price, due to them being
models of different years, but still demo exes from the shop. Of course one
of them was a better bargain in my eyes at least.

But. Why don't y'all go to your nearest Trek dealer and do the same thing.
Chances are that many of them will have both the 5200 and the 2300 in stock.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

<< I have about 1200.00 to spend and have been looking at both used and
new frames. >><BR><BR>

www.torelli.com
www.gunnarbikes.com
www.waterfordbikes.com
www.nobilettecysles.com
www.calfeedesign.com

All have offerings in your price 'range'...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

From: "Per Elmsäter"

Quoted message said:

On my 23 mm tires I usually run between 100 - 130 psi depending on the road.
110 psi is pretty much standard issue on >the roads around where I live.

Do you notice a difference between 110-130 on the same bike/tires? --TP

Tom Paterson said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Per Elmsäter"

Quoted message said:

On my 23 mm tires I usually run between 100 - 130 psi depending on
the road. 110 psi is pretty much standard issue on >the roads around
where I live.

Do you notice a difference between 110-130 on the same bike/tires?
--TP

Do you?
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

OK, here is the story. I am fairly new to road biking but have fallen
in love with the sport after making the transition from mtb. I
currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am looking to
upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

A frame upgrade is not going to make the ride more compliant. Try fatter
tires are a lower pressure.
-------------

Correct. A downgrade, however, will. Borrow someone's old bridgestone R-B
and find out.

-dkl

Per, which one did you buy?

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Per Elms ter said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

> OK, here is the story. I am fairly new to road biking but have
> fallen in love with the sport after making the transition from

mtb.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am
> looking to upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

A frame upgrade is not going to make the ride more compliant. Try
fatter tires are a lower pressure.

I absolutely disagree on that. I did a test ride on a Trek 2300 ( Alu

) and

Quoted message said:

a Trek 5200 ( Carbon). Both have the identical geometry according to

Trek

Quoted message said:

and they were the same size frames. The difference in feel, comfort

and

Quoted message said:

handling was significant.

Question, were the tires, and more importantly, tire pressures the
same?

I have three steel roadbikes, and they have three different feels. I
have
run relatively few (3 or 4) different tires, always 23 or 25, always
at 115
or 120 except for the occaisional day at 110. I think that the
difference
in the way that the bikes themselves feel is more significant than the
differences in feel due to the tires, as long as they are 23 or 25
and
115-120psi.

I think there's a lot of oversimplification going on here. In the
world of
dirtbike suspensions, they talk of low- and high-speed damping. Low
speed
hits are jump landings. High speed hits are logs, ledges, rocks, etc.
I
suspect that tire and PSI choice might affect the ride after
high-speed hits
like cracks in pavement much more than than they affect the ride after
low
speed forces like cornering.

I have read the argument here that all frames are very stiff
vertically,
and there is essentially no vertical flex to be gained by choice of
frame material, and I accept it. The difference, I suspect, is
largely in the fork.

I also suspect that whatever people mean by "compliant" is more
affected by
what a material does after it takes a hit, rather than any difference
in
vertical stiffness.

dkl

John Black said:

Per, which one did you buy?

The point I was trying to make was that I felt a significant difference. If
you're curious as to which one you'd like best yourself go and try them out
😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Quoted message said:

From: "Per Elmsäter"

(I asked):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you notice a difference between 110-130 on the same bike/tires?

(PE responded):

Quoted message said:

Do you?

I've never used 130lbs. pressure on the road, except on a wheel borrowed in a
race. The ride seems to get harsher around 120lbs, so if the 23's weren't
enough tire to prevent "pinch" flats, I'd go to a bigger tire, as I did when
riding dirt roads regularly in the past. --TP

Alex Rodriguez said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

currently own an dura ace/ultrega mix Cannondale 2.8 and am looking to
upgrade the frame to somethng a bit more compliant.

A frame upgrade is not going to make the ride more compliant.

Chainstay length?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!