Are Pacers Bandits?

Jim Haselmaier said:

I finished my 1st 1/2 marathon yesterday. Great experience. Completely by
accident I started running with someone at Mile 2. We ended up running the
rest of the race together and I realized there is no way I would have been
able to maintain that pace I did if I had been on my own. Afterward she
said she felt the same way. So.......

I've always been a loner when it comes to running. In future long distance
races, if I arranged for friends to pace me at different sections, would
they be considered bandits? Let's assume they don't partake in the aid
station services. Do the longer distance races look any more leniently on
pacers?

If they're registered for the race, they're not bandits. Otherwise they are.

I don't see why they should be looked on more leniently, in fact IMO it's
pretty questionable to use pacers who are not participating in the race.

Pace off the other participants instead (like you did in that race)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Haselmaier said:

I finished my 1st 1/2 marathon yesterday. Great experience. Completely

by

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

accident I started running with someone at Mile 2. We ended up running

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rest of the race together and I realized there is no way I would have

been

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

able to maintain that pace I did if I had been on my own. Afterward she
said she felt the same way. So.......

I've always been a loner when it comes to running. In future long

distance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

races, if I arranged for friends to pace me at different sections, would
they be considered bandits? Let's assume they don't partake in the aid
station services. Do the longer distance races look any more leniently

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pacers?

If they're registered for the race, they're not bandits. Otherwise they

are.

Quoted message said:

I don't see why they should be looked on more leniently, in fact IMO it's
pretty questionable to use pacers who are not participating in the race.

Pace off the other participants instead (like you did in that race)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

I concur with Donovan on this. Ask around at the start and find someone
aiming for the same time as you. Not sure if half's use pace groups or not
as marathons do.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jim Haselmaier said:

I finished my 1st 1/2 marathon yesterday. Great experience. Completely by
accident I started running with someone at Mile 2. We ended up running the
rest of the race together and I realized there is no way I would have been
able to maintain that pace I did if I had been on my own. Afterward she
said she felt the same way. So.......

I've always been a loner when it comes to running. In future long distance
races, if I arranged for friends to pace me at different sections, would
they be considered bandits? Let's assume they don't partake in the aid
station services. Do the longer distance races look any more leniently on
pacers?

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use pacers who aren't registered for the
race.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

It's common in the races that I've run for pace bunnies to be in the race
supported by race organizers. The pace bunnies wear a baseball cap with
cardboard cut-outs for sticky up ears where they write their target time.
There is usually a pace bunny for every 10 or 15 minute goal time. In a
marathon, you might see someone wearing 3:20 ears, another wearing 3:45 etc.

But beware, not all pace bunnies are the same. In one Vancouver Marathon, a
group lead by a pace bunny near my time goal was using a walk/run strategy
that I was not prepared to follow and in the Okanagon Half Marathon, a pace
bunny I passed was not feeling well and couldn't keep their pace.

I recently went to a track and field meet to watch the mile event. Officials
allowed pacers who would run the 1st three laps at precise 4 minute/mile
pace and lead the race only to drop out at start of the final lap to let the
other runners fight out the last lap on their own. The 1st 4 minute mile
ever run was run with the aid of a pace bunny - it was looked down upon then
but obviously pacing is more acceptable now.

What you did though is perfectly acceptable, the whole race is really doing
the same thing, kind of cooperative competition. Few run personal bests on
training runs - they save it till race day when the rest of the runners can
help bring out your best.

"Jim Haselmaier" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I finished my 1st 1/2 marathon yesterday. Great experience. Completely by
accident I started running with someone at Mile 2. We ended up running
the
rest of the race together and I realized there is no way I would have been
able to maintain that pace I did if I had been on my own. Afterward she
said she felt the same way. So.......

I've always been a loner when it comes to running. In future long
distance
races, if I arranged for friends to pace me at different sections, would
they be considered bandits? Let's assume they don't partake in the aid
station services. Do the longer distance races look any more leniently on
pacers?

Thanks.

Jim

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Quoted message said:

In future long distance
races, if I arranged for friends to pace me at different sections, would
they be considered bandits? Let's assume they don't partake in the aid
station services. Do the longer distance races look any more leniently on
pacers?

If they're registered for the race, they're not bandits. Otherwise they are.

I understand the term "bandit" with respect to finish lines, aid stations
paid for by entry fees, and on courses which are closed to the general
public. But many distance races include non-roped-off portions of the
course which are on public roads open to spectators and pedestrians
(e.g. in front of peoples houses, etc.). In a few of these races, many
thousands of people run without numbers.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Harold Buck said:

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use pacers who aren't registered for the
race.

Some distance races seem to have pacers who only run for the first or
second half at some fixed pace (written on some sort of sign the carry).

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Jim Haselmaier" <[email hidden]> wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use pacers who aren't registered for the
race.

Ummmm. What law would that be breaking?

However, they are technically entered in the race. Peachtree does this for
the lead women.

"Ronald H. Nicholson Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Harold Buck said:

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use pacers who aren't registered for the
race.

Some distance races seem to have pacers who only run for the first or
second half at some fixed pace (written on some sort of sign the carry).

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

So that makes it right? That is thousands of people banditing...
"Ronald H. Nicholson Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Quoted message said:

In future long distance
races, if I arranged for friends to pace me at different sections,

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they be considered bandits? Let's assume they don't partake in the aid
station services. Do the longer distance races look any more leniently

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pacers?

If they're registered for the race, they're not bandits. Otherwise they

are.

Quoted message said:

I understand the term "bandit" with respect to finish lines, aid stations
paid for by entry fees, and on courses which are closed to the general
public. But many distance races include non-roped-off portions of the
course which are on public roads open to spectators and pedestrians
(e.g. in front of peoples houses, etc.). In a few of these races, many
thousands of people run without numbers.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

Stop using the phrase "bandit". It makes it sound like joggers are
intimidating, marauding, pillaging thugs. Use a word that fits
better...like prancer, cupcake, or mayonaise butt.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JR said:

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Jim Haselmaier" <[email hidden]> wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use pacers who aren't registered for the
race.

Ummmm. What law would that be breaking?

Illegal has more than one meaning. It is illegal to run into the kicker
after a punt or field goal attempt, but that will not get you arrested
either. What I meant was that it is against the rules of most races and
can get you disqualified.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

JR said:

Ummmm. What law would that be breaking?

IANAL but I can think of at least two possibilities:

- trespassing (an exclusive right to use city streets, or at
least a part of them, is granted by the race permit)

- theft (if anything is taken from aid stations)

If you really [censored] a race director I'm sure they can find
other things.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sam said:

So that makes it right? That is thousands of people ...

Unless the race permit closes the public roads to pedestrians, and the
organisers follow municipal laws with respect to public notification about
those roads being closed to the general public (some do, some don't).
One race with which I'm familiar only cordons off the course near the
starting line and finish line areas, and the municipal police close the
streets to vehicular traffic only for runners meeting some minimum pace
on the rest of the course.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

Huh?

Whatever.
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
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"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JR said:

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Jim Haselmaier" <[email hidden]> wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use pacers who aren't registered for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

race.

Ummmm. What law would that be breaking?

Illegal has more than one meaning. It is illegal to run into the kicker
after a punt or field goal attempt, but that will not get you arrested
either. What I meant was that it is against the rules of most races and
can get you disqualified.

If you happen to be running next to someone in a race that has not
registered...that can get you a DQ?

Even IF you know them. That seems pretty arbitrary....Proving that someone
conspired with another to pace them is pretty difficult.

But then again, I'm not the USATF.

Just so everyone is clear on this, though...

RULE 144

ASSISTANCE TO ATHLETES

Except as provided in road races (Rule 241) and in long distance walking
events

(Rule 232), during the progress of an event a competitor who has received
any

assistance whatsoever from any other person may be disqualified by the
Referee.

"Assistance" is the conveying of advice, information or direct help to an
athlete

by any means, including a technical device. It also includes pacing in
running

or walking events by persons not participating in the event, by competitors

lapped or about to be lapped, or by any kind of technical device. It does
not

mean participation of an officially designated pacesetter in the race.

NOTE 1: Pacesetting by a person entered in an event for that purpose is
permitted.

NOTE 2: Competitors may carry or wear articles of personal equipment such as

wrist chronometers and heart rate monitors.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JR said:

If you happen to be running next to someone in a race that has not
registered...that can get you a DQ?

Even IF you know them. That seems pretty arbitrary....Proving that someone
conspired with another to pace them is pretty difficult.

Just don't run next to someone without a race number.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

In most races (100 mile ultra marathons being the exception) pacers
are against the rules.

If you want to have someone enter the race and run with you, go for
it.

Otherwise don't make the race directors life any harder by bringing
your own personal bandit!

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JR said:

Proving that someone
conspired with another to pace them is pretty difficult.

I don't think it's necessary to prove it. Race referee's ruling is
final. No?

(runners4bush) said:

Sen. John F. Kerry
President Bush

Who are these two you keep mentioning? Are they race directors?