Ask not how many miles per cassette

Your spreadsheet is useless.

Your incorrect assumption is the wear is evenly spread over the life
chain.

The wear on the cassette only occurs when the chain has been worn
enough that just a few links are putting pressure on the cog teeth,
exceeding the strength of the metal in the cassette teeth, and the
teeth begin to wear away. Once this begins, it is a very short time
until the cassette must be replaced with the chain.

Change the chain before this point and the cassette can last several
chains.

Ivar Hesselager said:

Ask not how many miles your cassette can give to you.
Ask how many chains it takes to double the life of your cassette!

A change of chain every month - as Peter does it - seemed exorbitant to
me. So I started to play with my spreadsheet:

The drive train economy will depend on the cost relation between chain and
cassette. With the Ultegra level stuff I buy, this relation is
aproximately 1 to 2.

To make the calculation, I need to know how often I must change the chain
to double the life of a cassette.

If 5 chains in stead of 2 will double the life of the casette I will save
money. If I use 6 chains, I will come out even, and might as well get a
new cassette with every other chain.

Now we will change the price relation to 1 to 3 - i.e. cheaper chains or
more expensive cassettes:
In this case I save money if 6 chains in stead of 2 doubles the cassette
life. If I need 7, I will still come out even.
BUT: It is difficult to find 9 or 10 speed chains at on third of the price
of a cassette.

To change the chain 8 times during the life of a cassette, you need a
price relation of 1 to 4.
That means you must buy very expensive cassettes - i.e. DA or Record - but
still cheap chains.

I would guess that 5 chains i.s.o. 2 can actually double the life of a
cassette. But I don't know for sure. Does anybody have systematic
experiences on the impact of chain substituion rates on cassette life
expectancy?

Ivar of Denmark
--
Sendt med Operas banebrydende nyhedsgruppe-
og e-postklient: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Quoted message said:

Your spreadsheet is useless.

Your incorrect assumption is the wear is evenly spread over the life
chain.

Well, that will make it a little more complicated but still doable.
Just have to come up some exponential rise in cassette wear vs. time...

I like the idea somebody proposed here awhile back... to guess ahead of
time how many chains you can use per cassette (3 or 4 is probably a
good place to start)... then buy all the chains and the cassette
together and rotate them. That way the chains and cassette will all
wear down together... and probably wear less quickly overall.

When you decide that the chains are worn too much, try a new chain on
the old cassette and see if it skips... if not, then add a chain the
next time you buy a "set".

Is it all worth it I ask myself!!

SW

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your spreadsheet is useless.

Your incorrect assumption is the wear is evenly spread over the life
chain.

Well, that will make it a little more complicated but still doable.
Just have to come up some exponential rise in cassette wear vs. time...

I like the idea somebody proposed here awhile back... to guess ahead of
time how many chains you can use per cassette (3 or 4 is probably a
good place to start)... then buy all the chains and the cassette
together and rotate them. That way the chains and cassette will all
wear down together... and probably wear less quickly overall.

When you decide that the chains are worn too much, try a new chain on
the old cassette and see if it skips... if not, then add a chain the
next time you buy a "set".

Steve W said:

Is it all worth it I ask myself!!

SW

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your spreadsheet is useless.

Your incorrect assumption is the wear is evenly spread over the life
chain.

Well, that will make it a little more complicated but still doable.
Just have to come up some exponential rise in cassette wear vs. time...

I like the idea somebody proposed here awhile back... to guess ahead of
time how many chains you can use per cassette (3 or 4 is probably a
good place to start)... then buy all the chains and the cassette
together and rotate them. That way the chains and cassette will all
wear down together... and probably wear less quickly overall.

When you decide that the chains are worn too much, try a new chain on
the old cassette and see if it skips... if not, then add a chain the
next time you buy a "set".

I guess I often ask myself "Should I clean my chain more often?" or
"Should I just replace it every 1000 miles?" or "Should I just ride it
until it snaps?". I don't want to become of of those that clean and
relubes the chain after every 2 mile ride. But on the other hand I can
see cleaning it every 100 miles.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

Steve W said:

Is it all worth it I ask myself.

I bought two chains for one cassette. I clean them both, put one, ride
it for a few hundred miles, then I put the other. clean both chains
again and keep doing the same. I'm guessing that I can probably get
8,000 miles or so. If you look for sales you can find farily cheap
cassettes. For example, nashbar has 9 speed nashbar cassettes for
$19.00 right now. they also have recumbent kmc 9 speed chains for
$15.00. I am guessing that I may be able to get two chains out of one
recumbent chain.

Andres

Steve W said:

Is it all worth it I ask myself!!

SW

I so love reading r.b.t! :^D

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Ken C. M. <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Steve W said:

Is it all worth it I ask myself!!

SW

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> Your spreadsheet is useless.
>
> Your incorrect assumption is the wear is evenly spread over the
> life chain.

Well, that will make it a little more complicated but still doable.
Just have to come up some exponential rise in cassette wear vs.
time... I like the idea somebody proposed here awhile back... to guess
ahead of time how many chains you can use per cassette (3 or 4 is
probably a good place to start)... then buy all the chains and the
cassette together and rotate them. That way the chains and cassette
will all wear down together... and probably wear less quickly
overall. When you decide that the chains are worn too much, try a new
chain
on the old cassette and see if it skips... if not, then add a chain
the next time you buy a "set".

I guess I often ask myself "Should I clean my chain more often?" or
"Should I just replace it every 1000 miles?" or "Should I just ride it
until it snaps?". I don't want to become of of those that clean and
relubes the chain after every 2 mile ride. But on the other hand I can
see cleaning it every 100 miles.

Ken

I am (perhaps others are) not sure what you mean by "cleaning". My filthy
habit is to slosh water on it after a ride, bounce the bike to shake off
droplets, and run it through an oily rag, but the last step only maybe every
4-5 rides. Also, unless it talks to me, I don't feed it oil. I get pretty
good mileage from chains, K7's and chainrings. But I am sure this goes
against the general principles of this forum, so with salt, please.
--
Sandy

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].

Sandy said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Ken C. M. <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Steve W said:

Is it all worth it I ask myself!!

SW

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>[email hidden] wrote:
>
>
>>Your spreadsheet is useless.
>>
>>Your incorrect assumption is the wear is evenly spread over the
>>life chain.
>
>Well, that will make it a little more complicated but still doable.
>Just have to come up some exponential rise in cassette wear vs.
>time... I like the idea somebody proposed here awhile back... to guess
>ahead of time how many chains you can use per cassette (3 or 4 is
>probably a good place to start)... then buy all the chains and the
>cassette together and rotate them. That way the chains and cassette
>will all wear down together... and probably wear less quickly
>overall. When you decide that the chains are worn too much, try a new
>chain
>on the old cassette and see if it skips... if not, then add a chain
>the next time you buy a "set".
>

I guess I often ask myself "Should I clean my chain more often?" or
"Should I just replace it every 1000 miles?" or "Should I just ride it
until it snaps?". I don't want to become of of those that clean and
relubes the chain after every 2 mile ride. But on the other hand I can
see cleaning it every 100 miles.

Ken

I am (perhaps others are) not sure what you mean by "cleaning". My filthy
habit is to slosh water on it after a ride, bounce the bike to shake off
droplets, and run it through an oily rag, but the last step only maybe every
4-5 rides. Also, unless it talks to me, I don't feed it oil. I get pretty
good mileage from chains, K7's and chainrings. But I am sure this goes
against the general principles of this forum, so with salt, please.

By cleaning I mean cleaning, as is either removing chain from bike and
cleaning in green solution, or using chain cleaning device on the bike.
Although lately I have not been so diligent about cleaning and probably
as a result have worn my cassette pre-maturely.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

Wow, people actually clean their chains?

Weird.

No cleaning for me. I rotate two chains. I get ~8K-10K miles on the set
w/out ever cleaning. Maybe an external dry wipe. Hose down after a
rainy ride. When I rotate, old chain stays "dirty" in a bag, awaiting
it's turn again.

I've got enough maintenance to do without cleaning my chain. It seems
to me that to clean a chain effectively, you'd have to remove all the
links and their pins to make sure there's no grit anywhere on it.
Otherwise, you're just moving grit around. Do you really think anything
is coming out of the holes that pins sit in? After cleaning, that gunk
in the bottom of the pan is mostly off the plates and wouldn't have
hurt anything anyway.

-Mike

Mike Reed said:

Wow, people actually clean their chains?

Weird.

No cleaning for me. I rotate two chains. I get ~8K-10K miles on the set
w/out ever cleaning. Maybe an external dry wipe. Hose down after a
rainy ride. When I rotate, old chain stays "dirty" in a bag, awaiting
it's turn again.

I've got enough maintenance to do without cleaning my chain. It seems
to me that to clean a chain effectively, you'd have to remove all the
links and their pins to make sure there's no grit anywhere on it.
Otherwise, you're just moving grit around. Do you really think anything
is coming out of the holes that pins sit in? After cleaning, that gunk
in the bottom of the pan is mostly off the plates and wouldn't have
hurt anything anyway.

-Mike

Ha Ha Ha. I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder. Especially when
it comes to cleaning. As far as chains go, I don't know where all the
gunk comes from, but it's coming from somewhere.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

At least you're honest, and your chain shines. Mine is always a little
embarrassing 🙂

Ken C. M. said:

Mike Reed said:

Wow, people actually clean their chains?

Weird.

No cleaning for me. I rotate two chains. I get ~8K-10K miles on the set
w/out ever cleaning. Maybe an external dry wipe. Hose down after a
rainy ride. When I rotate, old chain stays "dirty" in a bag, awaiting
it's turn again.

I've got enough maintenance to do without cleaning my chain. It seems
to me that to clean a chain effectively, you'd have to remove all the
links and their pins to make sure there's no grit anywhere on it.
Otherwise, you're just moving grit around. Do you really think anything
is coming out of the holes that pins sit in? After cleaning, that gunk
in the bottom of the pan is mostly off the plates and wouldn't have
hurt anything anyway.

-Mike

Ha Ha Ha. I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder. Especially when
it comes to cleaning. As far as chains go, I don't know where all the
gunk comes from, but it's coming from somewhere.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

andresmuro said:

If you look for sales you can find farily cheap
cassettes. For example, nashbar has 9 speed nashbar cassettes for
$19.00 right now. they also have recumbent kmc 9 speed chains for
$15.00. I am guessing that I may be able to get two chains out of one
recumbent chain.

That's just what I did this weekend - put on one of the Nashbar
cassettes and half of a KMC recumbent chain. The previous cassette had
lasted through 4 chains and about 25000 miles.
But I still had a problem with the chain skipping on the large
chainring since the teeth had become very asymmetric. So I flipped it
over to get a few more years of use out of it.

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Ken C. M. <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden], Ken C. M.
<[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré
:

Quoted message said:

Steve W wrote:

> Is it all worth it I ask myself!!
>
> SW
>
>
>
> "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>
>
>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Your spreadsheet is useless.
>>>
>>> Your incorrect assumption is the wear is evenly spread over the
>>> life chain.
>>
>> Well, that will make it a little more complicated but still
>> doable. Just have to come up some exponential rise in cassette
>> wear vs. time... I like the idea somebody proposed here awhile
>> back... to guess ahead of time how many chains you can use per
>> cassette (3 or 4 is probably a good place to start)... then buy
>> all the chains and the cassette together and rotate them. That
>> way the chains and cassette will all wear down together... and
>> probably wear less quickly overall. When you decide that the
>> chains are worn too much, try a new chain
>> on the old cassette and see if it skips... if not, then add a
>> chain the next time you buy a "set".
>>
>
>
>
I guess I often ask myself "Should I clean my chain more often?" or
"Should I just replace it every 1000 miles?" or "Should I just ride
it until it snaps?". I don't want to become of of those that clean
and relubes the chain after every 2 mile ride. But on the other
hand I can see cleaning it every 100 miles.

Ken

I am (perhaps others are) not sure what you mean by "cleaning". My
filthy habit is to slosh water on it after a ride, bounce the bike
to shake off droplets, and run it through an oily rag, but the last
step only maybe every 4-5 rides. Also, unless it talks to me, I
don't feed it oil. I get pretty good mileage from chains, K7's and
chainrings. But I am sure this goes against the general principles
of this forum, so with salt, please.

By cleaning I mean cleaning, as is either removing chain from bike and
cleaning in green solution, or using chain cleaning device on the
bike. Although lately I have not been so diligent about cleaning and
probably as a result have worn my cassette pre-maturely.

Ken

I don't know about wearing these things out so quickly. I think lots of
threads here have shown that :

- there are dedicated chain cleaners (not me)
- there are other things to do in life (YEAH !)
- chain and cassette life vary widely
- Peter Chisholm knows economy when he sees it
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

Steve W said:

Is it all worth it I ask myself!!

Rotating the chains is very easy if you are somebody who already takes
the chain off to clean it... otherwise, I wouldn't bother. Personally,
I "lube" my chain with generic spray furniture wax, with a little oil
applied every once in awhile... I don't take them off and don't rotate.

Mike Reed said:

Wow, people actually clean their chains?

Weird.

No cleaning for me. I rotate two chains. I get ~8K-10K miles on the set
w/out ever cleaning. Maybe an external dry wipe. Hose down after a
rainy ride. When I rotate, old chain stays "dirty" in a bag, awaiting
it's turn again.

Do your chains sound like a bunch of very small birds after awhile?

Is that what that sound is? I thought spring was coming early, or maybe
my riding buddies whispering about how dirty my chain always looks 🙂

No, I lube regularly, so my chain is silent. I use white lightning,
applied to the inside of the chain below the chain stay.

-Mike

Ron Ruff said:

Mike Reed said:

Wow, people actually clean their chains?

Weird.

No cleaning for me. I rotate two chains. I get ~8K-10K miles on the set
w/out ever cleaning. Maybe an external dry wipe. Hose down after a
rainy ride. When I rotate, old chain stays "dirty" in a bag, awaiting
it's turn again.

Do your chains sound like a bunch of very small birds after awhile?

Having gone through most permutations over the years I've come down on
the side of minimal maintenance (just enough to stop it squeaking).

Even the most obsessive cleaning I can manage (once a fortnight or
every 300-250 miles) doesn't increase chain life for me.

Rotating chains increases sprocket life, but is a pain if you don't
clean the chain, so these days I settle for about 3000-4000 miles and
treat the cassette and chain as a unit.

Same applies for other maintenance tasks. Obsessive maintenance just
isn't cost effective unless you price your time at zero (I'd rather be
riding or drinking) or find maintaining your bike more satisfying than
riding it. If there's a problem fix it, otherwise just ride it, that's
my philosophy.

Andrew W.

Basically Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is a potentially
disabling anxiety disorder. A person who has OCD has intrusive and
unwanted thoughts and repeatedly performs tasks to get rid of the
thoughts. For example, if you have OCD, you may fear that everything
you touch is contaminated with germs, and in order to ease that fear,
you repeatedly wash your hands.

Anxiety is the most common symptom of OCD.
Symptoms:
Obsessions, which are recurring, unwanted thoughts, ideas, and impulses
that interrupt normal thinking and cause anxiety or fear. The thoughts
may be sexual or violent or create a concern of illness. Examples
include:
Persistent fear of harm to yourself or a loved one.
An excessive need to do things perfectly or correctly.
A fear of contamination.

Diagnoses:
A diagnosis of OCD is based on your symptoms, your medical history, and
a physical examination.

Treatment for OCD includes counseling and medications. Antidepressant
medications called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs),
such as fluoxetine (for example, Prozac), are most commonly used.

Check out this link for getting more Information about OCD
medical-health-care-information.com(OCD).aspOpen ↗

And for antidepressant medicines. Check out this link
http://epsdrugstore.com/anti-Depress.htm

[email hidden] wrote (without explaining why):

Quoted message said:

Basically Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is a potentially
disabling anxiety disorder. A person who has OCD has intrusive and
unwanted thoughts and repeatedly performs tasks to get rid of the
thoughts. For example, if you have OCD, you may fear that everything
you touch is contaminated with germs, and in order to ease that fear,
you repeatedly wash your hands.

Anxiety is the most common symptom of OCD.
Symptoms:
Obsessions, which are recurring, unwanted thoughts, ideas, and
impulses that interrupt normal thinking and cause anxiety or fear.
The thoughts may be sexual or violent or create a concern of illness.
Examples include:
Persistent fear of harm to yourself or a loved one.
An excessive need to do things perfectly or correctly.
A fear of contamination.

Diagnoses:
A diagnosis of OCD is based on your symptoms, your medical history,
and a physical examination.

Treatment for OCD includes counseling and medications. Antidepressant
medications called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs),
such as fluoxetine (for example, Prozac), are most commonly used.

Check out this link for getting more Information about OCD
medical-health-care-information.com(OCD).aspOpen ↗

And for antidepressant medicines. Check out this link
http://epsdrugstore.com/anti-Depress.htm

Dead link. Now I'm depressed.

:-D