Atkins Diet and Racing

Sorry? I didn't capitize my subject heading....... supposed to do this? its such a big group that I
feel like I have to yell so loud.

don't make big stink here, just having fun.

"David A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training

and

Quoted message said:

Atkins dieting?

I understand most of us racers are in great shape and would never need to

be

Quoted message said:

on a diet of course certainly for sure, but some of us are ex-racers, and want to get back in
race shape.

I went on a 40 mile ride and it was OK, having eaten virtually no carbs before or during the ride.

But the big question, a 40 mile ride is one thing, a 100 mile ride in 5 hours solo is another.

Why don't you just try it? (the 100 miles)

Afterwards, report to rec.bicycles.misc.

thank you very much.

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"David A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training

and

Quoted message said:

Atkins dieting?

I understand most of us racers are in great shape and would never need to

be

Quoted message said:

on a diet of course certainly for sure, but some of us are ex-racers, and want to get back in
race shape.

I went on a 40 mile ride and it was OK, having eaten virtually no carbs before or during
the ride.

But the big question, a 40 mile ride is one thing, a 100 mile ride in 5 hours solo is another.

Why don't you just try it? (the 100 miles)

Afterwards, report to rec.bicycles.misc.

thank you very much.

Translation:

Trying to ride 100 miles in 5 hours with no carbs and no glycogen would be (nearly?) impossible. I
think you would pass out after 3-4 hours or crash into something when your brain stopped getting
enough sugar to function well enough to keep you upright.

This question is better suited to another newsgroup than this one that at least pretends to be
about racing.

Patronizing a person who asks question that indicates a profound lack of understanding about what it
takes to even prepare for a 100 mile ride completed in 5 hours.

FYI, do a Google search on the terms "glycogen" and "exercise".

I tend towards a lower carb diet rather than true Atkins diet but I run out of energy if I don't get a decent serve of carbs before a long ride. I agree that 30 to 50 miles is fine but much further than that and I struggle.

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"David A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle

racing/training

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

Atkins dieting?

I understand most of us racers are in great shape and would never need

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be

Quoted message said:

on a diet of course certainly for sure, but some of us are ex-racers,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

want to get back in race shape.

I went on a 40 mile ride and it was OK, having eaten virtually no

carbs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

before or during the ride.

But the big question, a 40 mile ride is one thing, a 100 mile ride in

5

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hours solo is another.

Why don't you just try it? (the 100 miles)

Afterwards, report to rec.bicycles.misc.

thank you very much.

Translation:

Trying to ride 100 miles in 5 hours with no carbs and no glycogen would be (nearly?) impossible. I
think you would pass out after 3-4 hours or crash into something when your brain stopped getting
enough sugar to function well enough to keep you upright.

This question is better suited to another newsgroup than this one that at least pretends to be
about racing.

Patronizing a person who asks question that indicates a profound lack of understanding about what
it takes to even prepare for a 100 mile ride completed in 5 hours.

FYI, do a Google search on the terms "glycogen" and "exercise".

Thanks, I will search google

I don't have a profound lack of knowledge - I have enough knowledge to ask for more knowledge. I
have personally riden 3, 100 mile rides under 5 hours solo. Its been 10 or 11 years since I did it.
I rode the STP, a 200 mile flat ride in 12-1/2 hours, Though the first part of the ride was not
actual ly solo, with all the other people, but I didn't have a team/group for the last 100.

The reason why I ask the question, Atkins does an excellent job of providing for my body all day, I
don't walk into hallways or fall down stairs because my body has no sugar? Human bodies can convert
protein into carbs too. Its a complicated question I suspect, and the answer I suspect will be
complicated.

I am looking for advice/experience regarding alternative snacks, pre ride food and ride food that
provides for the carb/sugar need and accomadates the atktins diet.

I could ask the general group of bicyclists who know nothing about racing level energy what to eat,
or I could ask the racing bicyclists?

Maybe it just isn't meant to be? - thats why I am asking...... but probably another group.

David

David A said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training and Atkins dieting?

I understand most of us racers are in great shape and would never need to be on a diet of course
certainly for sure, but some of us are ex-racers, and want to get back in race shape.

I went on a 40 mile ride and it was OK, having eaten virtually no carbs before or during the ride.

But the big question, a 40 mile ride is one thing, a 100 mile ride in 5 hours solo is another.

You can violate the diet while on the ride. You'll be running a caloric deficit over the time period
of the ride anyway. I've done Atkins before while still doing long training rides. That is, I
followed the diet _except_ for during the ride and maybe an hour afterwards. Maltodextrin and
Glucose are your friends while on long rides.

"David A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason why I ask the question, Atkins does an excellent job of

providing

Quoted message said:

for my body all day, I don't walk into hallways or fall down stairs

because

Quoted message said:

my body has no sugar? Human bodies can convert protein into carbs too.

Its a

Quoted message said:

complicated question I suspect, and the answer I suspect will be complicated.

No it's very simple. You don't burn 300-700 calories an hour walking around, you do when cycling at
20 mph ave. With training your liver and muscle glycogen stores can be increased, but I believe the
number to expect is around 2000 calories. That's about 4 hours max at probably less than 20 mph ave.
So you are short 800 to 1500 calories. Those calories have to be ingested, digested and in your
blood stream before you use up the 2000 calorie store. It's not going to happen if you don't ingest
easy to digest high carb food. If you want to finish in 5 hours you won't have time to sit down for
an Aitkin dinner.

David A said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training and Atkins dieting?

I haven't raced in many years, but I do ride a few centuries every year and I enjoy training on
hills. I think I'd bonk if I didn't consume some carbs during the century rides. I've learned,
though experience, that I don't need to gorge myself on carbohydrates during long rides - there's
only so much energy my body can extract from carbohydrate-rich foods or drinks over a given time
period, anyway.

Because I usually want to lose weight, rather than gain it, I'll often ride 3-4 leisurely hours
without eating any carbs before or during the ride. By the end of that time, I'm usually tired and
cranky, but I also know that my body has been consuming its own fat to provide engery, rather than
running on energy from breakfast carbs.

This seems to work for me - when I cut down the carbs and increase exercise, I lose weight. Just
exercising more, without cutting down on the carbs, too, makes it >much< more difficult for me to
lose weight. But it's very difficult for me and most people to cut down on, much less cut out,
carbohydrates. Personally, I cut

Certainly you can be physically fit as well as overweight. Once someone is overweight, it takes a
lot of work to be become lean enough to speedily climb hills and win races. If you are overweight,
cutting down on carbohydrates is one tool you can use to lose weight.

If you try riding a long distance without eating any carbs as a way to lose weight, stash some
packets of Goo or energy bars in your jersey pocket, and if you start to bonk, you'll be able to
regain energy quickly.

Good luck,

Dave

davewyman.comdavewyman.comOpen ↗ icyclist.comicyclist.comOpen ↗

"David A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training

and

Quoted message said:

Atkins dieting?

I understand most of us racers are in great shape and would never need to

be

Quoted message said:

on a diet of course certainly for sure, but some of us are ex-racers, and want to get back in
race shape.

I went on a 40 mile ride and it was OK, having eaten virtually no carbs before or during the ride.

But the big question, a 40 mile ride is one thing, a 100 mile ride in 5 hours solo is another.

David

Maybe I am dense, but why would one actually consider Atkins if participating in an exercise program
that included a 5 hour century? I can see using Atkins for people that need to lose weight pretty
quickly and have no ability to exercise, but I know that a lot of them gain the weight back pretty
quickly after going off of Atkins.

Seems as though your diet should be consistent with your long term goals of lower weight and
increased fitness.

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thank you very much.

Translation:

Trying to ride 100 miles in 5 hours with no carbs and no glycogen would be (nearly?) impossible. I
think you would pass out after 3-4 hours or crash into something when your brain stopped getting
enough sugar to function well enough to keep you upright.

That's not true.

I know some guys who can do The Loop - 120-130 miles, includes Palomar Mountain, from the coast and
back, includes Mesa Grande, 10-15,000 ft. of climbing (need to get someone to measure it sometime,
the vertical gain).

These guys are pros and one of their things is to see how little they can do it on. The best is 18.1
mph, solo on a Snickers and a Coke.

Obviously their fat burning engines are turned way, way up. But that's one of the biggest reason
they're better than the rest of us - at a given power level we're using glycogen and they aren't.

And ya, it doesn't apply to the Fred who initiated this thread. But it's not impossible.

Dave M Wyman said:

David A said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training and Atkins dieting?

I haven't raced in many years, but I do ride a few centuries every year and I enjoy training on
hills. I think I'd bonk if I didn't consume some carbs during the century rides. I've learned,
though experience, that I don't need to gorge myself on carbohydrates during long rides - there's
only so much energy my body can extract from carbohydrate-rich foods or drinks over a given time
period, anyway.

Isn't bonking a good thing for someone focusing on weight loss? It's really only bad if you want to
ride fast. Just keep the electrolytes and fluids topped up, and you'll be okay.

Right?

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Dave M Wyman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<D%_Ta.138109

Quoted message said:

Because I usually want to lose weight, rather than gain it, I'll often ride 3-4 leisurely hours
without eating any carbs before or during the ride. By the end of that time, I'm usually tired and
cranky, but I also know that my body has been consuming its own fat to provide engery, rather than
running on energy from breakfast carbs.

This is the Warren G method of fat loss. The problem I have with it is that you are compromising
your aerobic development and the intensity of the ride. Poor nutrition might also affect how well
you can recover, thus compromising the intensity of subsequent rides.

In the long term you'll see better progress if you stay well fueled and maintain decent intensity on
your rides. If you get faster, you'll be able to burn more calories too.

Quoted message said:

This seems to work for me - when I cut down the carbs and increase exercise, I lose weight. Just
exercising more, without cutting down on the carbs, too, makes it >much< more difficult for me to
lose weight. But it's very difficult for me and most people to cut down on, much less cut out,
carbohydrates. Personally, I cut

Certainly you can be physically fit as well as overweight. Once someone is overweight, it takes a
lot of work to be become lean enough to speedily climb hills and win races. If you are overweight,
cutting down on carbohydrates is one tool you can use to lose weight.

Bottom line is you have to burn more calories than you eat.

Quoted message said:

If you try riding a long distance without eating any carbs as a way to lose weight, stash some
packets of Goo or energy bars in your jersey pocket, and if you start to bonk, you'll be able to
regain energy quickly.

If you're trying to lose weight bonking is bad, because when you bonk you're not burning a lot of
calories (even though you feel like [censored]), it's better to not bonk and ride longer even if it means
having to eat.

-Amit

Raptor said:

Dave M Wyman said:

David A said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training and Atkins dieting?

I haven't raced in many years, but I do ride a few centuries every year and I enjoy training on
hills. I think I'd bonk if I didn't consume some carbs during the century rides. I've learned,
though experience, that I don't need to gorge myself on carbohydrates during long rides - there's
only so much energy my body can extract from carbohydrate-rich foods or drinks over a given time
period, anyway.

Isn't bonking a good thing for someone focusing on weight loss? It's really only bad if you want to
ride fast. Just keep the electrolytes and fluids topped up, and you'll be okay.

Right?

Yes. The original poster has already "bonked" and in theory could ride until he depleted his fat
stores, just not very fast.

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen

warren said:

Trying to ride 100 miles in 5 hours with no carbs and no glycogen would be (nearly?) impossible. I
think you would pass out after 3-4 hours or crash into something when your brain stopped getting
enough sugar to function well enough to keep you upright.

His brain would be using ketones and tiny amount of glucose from gluconeogenesis.

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen

In article <[email hidden]>, Top Sirloin

Quoted message said:

warren said:

Trying to ride 100 miles in 5 hours with no carbs and no glycogen would be (nearly?) impossible.
I think you would pass out after 3-4 hours or crash into something when your brain stopped
getting enough sugar to function well enough to keep you upright.

His brain would be using ketones and tiny amount of glucose from gluconeogenesis.

I've bonked enough times to know that you're going to be jepordizing your ability to stay upright
when your brain is running on fumes.

-WG

In article said:

Dave M Wyman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<D%_Ta.138109

Quoted message said:

Because I usually want to lose weight, rather than gain it, I'll often ride 3-4 leisurely hours
without eating any carbs before or during the ride. By the end of that time, I'm usually tired
and cranky, but I also know that my body has been consuming its own fat to provide engery,
rather than running on energy from breakfast carbs.

This is the Warren G method of fat loss.

Show me where I said that.

No one has yet mentioned that if you run out of adequate carbs and you're not some super fat burner
then you'll cannibalize muscle tissue for fuel.

Also, bonking may not be all bad because if you ingest enough carbs in the following 24 hours or
so you can end up storing more glycogen than you'd normally have. And, bonking can lead to
greater releases of growth hormone in that same 24 hours. Do you ever feel very recovered the day
after bonking?

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thank you very much.

Translation:

Trying to ride 100 miles in 5 hours with no carbs and no glycogen would be (nearly?) impossible.
I think you would pass out after 3-4 hours or crash into something when your brain stopped
getting enough sugar to function well enough to keep you upright.

That's not true.

I said "nearly" because I knew somebody would come up with some freaky example, and they cheated and
ate some carbs anyway. This guy was on Atkins so no carbs to speak of.

Quoted message said:

I know some guys who can do The Loop - 120-130 miles, includes Palomar Mountain, from the coast
and back, includes Mesa Grande, 10-15,000 ft. of climbing (need to get someone to measure it
sometime, the vertical gain).

These guys are pros and one of their things is to see how little they can do it on. The best is
18.1 mph, solo on a Snickers and a Coke.

Obviously their fat burning engines are turned way, way up. But that's one of the biggest reason
they're better than the rest of us - at a given power level we're using glycogen and they aren't.

That's an interesting idea.

-WG

"Mack Mad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"David A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any information or experience with bicycle racing/training

and

Quoted message said:

Atkins dieting?

I understand most of us racers are in great shape and would never need to

be

Quoted message said:

on a diet of course certainly for sure, but some of us are ex-racers, and want to get back in
race shape.

I went on a 40 mile ride and it was OK, having eaten virtually no carbs before or during
the ride.

But the big question, a 40 mile ride is one thing, a 100 mile ride in 5 hours solo is another.

David

Maybe I am dense, but why would one actually consider Atkins if participating in an exercise
program that included a 5 hour century? I can see using Atkins for people that need to lose weight
pretty quickly and have no ability to exercise

I don't know about that. I've gotten a lot of the people at my squash club to go on Atkins diets.
Going low-carb hasn't hurt their ability to move on the squash court. And of course you are burning
a higher proportion of fat than carbs when going on a long bike ride than you are when playing
squash. Triaining your body to oxidize fat instead of carbs would only be helpful in that regard.

Quoted message said:

but I know that a lot of them gain the weight back pretty quickly after going off of Atkins.

I should probably dig up the study *before* posting, but one of the recent go-arounds of Atkins
dieters losing more weight than people on low-carb diets followed people three months after the diet
ended. The Atkins dieters had still lost almost double the weight.

Nevertheless, longterm maintainance is a real issue with any diet. Atkins isn't a panacae in
that regard.

Quoted message said:

Seems as though your diet should be consistent with your long term goals of lower weight and
increased fitness.

And the Atkins diet isn't?

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Top Sirloin

Quoted message said:

warren said:

Trying to ride 100 miles in 5 hours with no carbs and no glycogen would be (nearly?) impossible.
I think you would pass out after 3-4 hours or crash into something when your brain stopped
getting enough sugar to function well enough to keep you upright.

His brain would be using ketones and tiny amount of glucose from gluconeogenesis.

I've bonked enough times to know that you're going to be jepordizing your ability to stay upright
when your brain is running on fumes.

That's true. Your body can't instantly turn a switch and flip over to a FFA and ketone based
metabolism, it can take days. The original poster however, has already been through that pain.

There was some research mentioned in mfw about putting endurance athletes on low-carb diets to
improve their fat utilization and then carb loading before events, but it wasn't shown to be of
any benefit.

I do think a lot of the people doing stuff like adventure racing or even RAAM might do better just
running off their fat stores in ketosis the whole time.

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen