Atkins Induction Questions

Dawn wrote:
:: 20 grams of carbs.
:: The book says "No more than 20 grams" - Can I fluctuate with
:: impunity between 0 and 20 grams?

Yes.

:: Is it likely to cause problems if I hit 19 or 20
:: tommorrow?

No.

::
:: I should be counting the carbs in eggs and other non-adulterated
:: protein foods, right?

Yes.

I'm thinking of proteins that are labeled as 0
:: carb per serving and have no obvious sugar. Do I need to look them
:: all up on the USDA charts to make sure there aren't fractional carbs?
::

Well.....I would bother with it that much. If it makes you feel better, go
for 15g of carbs and have a 5g safety margin!

:: The carb counts in the book differ radically from the USDA food
:: database numbers. There's no good reason to use his numbers, is
:: there?

No. Consider fitday.com.

:: Artificial Sweeteners.
:: I consume 0-1 diet sodas a day. The carb count on the label is 0g,
:: and it lacks the maltodextrin and other carb sources that increase
:: the carb counts for splenda packets (also labeled 0g). But the
:: Atkins Advantage folks say "be sure to count the carbs" for diet
:: soda. Should I be counting a carb for it?

No.

::
:: Is sorbitol fine? I have some tablets that make an electrolyte
:: drink, and they have a small amount of sorbitol. I've been sipping
:: the stuff off an on to keep my potassium, mag, calcium and sodium
:: levels reasonable and just realized that it had sorbitol. The book
:: says that certain sugar alcohols are acceptable, but not which ones.
::

No sweat it so much. Induction isn't so much about weight loss as it is
about killing off the carb addiction.

::
:: Treats.
:: In googling, I've found mention of a stricture for "no more than one
:: sweet treat per day". I can't find any mention of that in my copy of
:: the book (although I have a 3 year old, and that impairs my reading
:: comprehension). I don't have any interest in sweet treats (beyond my
:: diet soda), but is this an induction thing or a post-induction thing?
::

You don't need treats on induction. Eat from the list and don't sweat this.

:: I really like avocados, but once you cut into them they really don't
:: keep well. My copy of the book says that I can have half an avocado
:: per day as a treat. If I have the available carbs, would it be
:: reasonable (if not really strict induction) to have a whole avocado
:: every 2-3 days? I can't have dairy products at all, so it would be a
:: combination of a treat and a replacement for the allowed 3-4 oz of
:: cheese.

IMO, if I have the carbs, I'd eat the entire thing. Might not be following
the rules, but you can be successful without following the rules to the tee.

::
:: General counting.
:: Should I be counting all my carbs or relying on the "2 cups salad
:: veg, 1 cup other veg, a special category food, etc". I ask because
:: the book says I can have a serving of "Other Veggies" only if I had
:: 2 cups of salad, not 3. But if I count net carbs, I could
:: potentially have 3 cups of salad veg AND 1 cup of other veg on some
:: days and still come out under 20 net carbs.

IMO, yes.

Can the 2/1 measurements
:: be considered just a guideline and the carb counts the real
:: requirement?

If you don't mind counting carbs, I'd just hit my target and not sweat the
details. This may technically be a "roll-my-own" version of Atkins, but
hey, results are what count.

::
::
:: I suspect that I should relax a little about most of these things,
:: but I'm trying to set up reasonable limits now instead of
:: rationalizing myself out of ketosis in a week.

Good idea. Good questions, too.

Dawn said:

The book says "No more than 20 grams" - Can I fluctuate with
impunity between 0 and 20 grams?

Since it's only for two weeks, probably not a big deal. Mostly, it
means you're not eating enough vegetables.

Quoted message said:

Yesterday I was at 12g (depending on how I skew the "does this
count"😉 for example, and today I'm at around 7-8 so far. Is it
likely to cause problems if I hit 19 or 20 tommorrow?

Nope. Each day is its own thing as far as liver depletion goes.
Induction is there to help you get over the hump of starting the diet.
Once you're past Induction, the next step is to figure out how many
carbs per day YOU can have and still stay in ketosis. For most
people, it's far higher than 20, but before induction you also have a
big reservoir of carbs that you have to get rid of. Going real low
(20g) for a short time helps deplete that quickly.

Quoted message said:

I should be counting the carbs in eggs and other
non-adulterated protein foods, right?

Yes. Eggs are approximately 0.5g per egg. Even Splenda has carbs, if
you eat enough of it. Same for cheese (0.5g/oz)

Quoted message said:

I'm thinking of proteins that are labeled as 0 carb per serving and
have no obvious sugar.

Unprocessed meat has no carbs (except organ meats). Eggs and dairy
have some carbs, as do nuts, olives, and avocados.

Quoted message said:

Do I need to look them all up on the USDA charts to make sure there
aren't fractional carbs?

It's a good learning experience to do it once so you know which types
of foods have trace carbs in them, but you don't have to be *that*
picky about it unless you're eating lots of those types of foods.

Quoted message said:

The carb counts in the book differ radically from the USDA
food database numbers. There's no good reason to use his numbers, is
there? (I'm thinking of avocado, which the USDA shows as 5 net carbs
per and Atkins calls 13 net carbs per (and 5 net carbs per half).

Florida or California avocados?
http://www.delorie.com/health/ns/?fid=09039
http://www.delorie.com/health/ns/?fid=09038

Quoted message said:

I consume 0-1 diet sodas a day. The carb count on the label is
0g, and it lacks the maltodextrin and other carb sources that increase
the carb counts for splenda packets (also labeled 0g). But the Atkins
Advantage folks say "be sure to count the carbs" for diet soda. Should
I be counting a carb for it?

Pretty much any sweetener ending in "-ol" should be counted, except
erythritol, which by general consensus can be ignored. Sodas with
sucralose or aspartame are generally free.

Quoted message said:

Is sorbitol fine? I have some tablets that make an electrolyte
drink, and they have a small amount of sorbitol. I've been sipping the
stuff off an on to keep my potassium, mag, calcium and sodium levels
reasonable and just realized that it had sorbitol. The book says that
certain sugar alcohols are acceptable, but not which ones.

Erythritol is fine, the others you have to try and see (after
induction). The test? Eat a lot of one type and see if you get
diarrhea. If so, it's not a carb for you.

Quoted message said:

In googling, I've found mention of a stricture for "no more
than one sweet treat per day". I can't find any mention of that in my
copy of the book (although I have a 3 year old, and that impairs my
reading comprehension). I don't have any interest in sweet treats
(beyond my diet soda), but is this an induction thing or a
post-induction thing?

During Induction, no sweets. Period. Eat from the approved list, and
nothing else. It's only two weeks. Think of it as a "shock
treatment" to get you OUT of your old diet.

After that (OWL), your carb allowance should be used for
nutrient-dense foods first, but you can make sweets with splenda or
other non-carb sweeteners. Heck, I had cheese cake for breakfast for
a month once. Part of Atkins is to teach you better eating habits for
a lifetime, not just a lose-weight-quick scheme. Limit sweets to
something reasonable.

Quoted message said:

I really like avocados, but once you cut into them they really
don't keep well.

There are tricks to solve that, I think lemon juice is one. Check the
web.

Quoted message said:

My copy of the book says that I can have half an avocado per day as
a treat. If I have the available carbs, would it be reasonable (if
not really strict induction) to have a whole avocado every 2-3 days?

Sure. Beware that avocados are also calorie-rich, relative to other
vegetables.

Quoted message said:

Should I be counting all my carbs or relying on the "2 cups
salad veg, 1 cup other veg, a special category food, etc".

If you count the carbs, you'll find that you can have much more salad
than the book says. Treat those as minimums. Fiber is good for you!
(up to a point). Older editions of the book erroneously counted fiber
as a carb, which resulted in smaller limits on veggies.

Quoted message said:

I ask because the book says I can have a serving of "Other Veggies"
only if I had 2 cups of salad, not 3.

What's the copyright year on the book? I think that rule changed
around from edition to edition.

Quoted message said:

But if I count net carbs, I could potentially have 3 cups of salad
veg AND 1 cup of other veg on some days and still come out under 20
net carbs. Can the 2/1 measurements be considered just a guideline
and the carb counts the real requirement?

The carb counts are the real requirement.

Quoted message said:

I suspect that I should relax a little about most of these things, but
I'm trying to set up reasonable limits now instead of rationalizing
myself out of ketosis in a week.

Be strict for two weeks. You can do it, it's only 14 days. On day 15
you start adding in more foods (slowly 🙂.

DJ Delorie said:

Florida or California avocados?
http://www.delorie.com/health/ns/?fid=09039
http://www.delorie.com/health/ns/?fid=09038

California, I never really liked Florida avocados. That might explain
the discrepancy though.

Quoted message said:

Pretty much any sweetener ending in "-ol" should be counted, except
erythritol, which by general consensus can be ignored. Sodas with
sucralose or aspartame are generally free.

Quoted message said:

Is sorbitol fine? I have some tablets that make an electrolyte
drink, and they have a small amount of sorbitol. I've been sipping the
stuff off an on to keep my potassium, mag, calcium and sodium levels
reasonable and just realized that it had sorbitol. The book says that
certain sugar alcohols are acceptable, but not which ones.

Sugar alcohols should be included in the total calorie and carb count,
correct? I think I'll probably just count it as .5 carb per serving,
since it has <3 calories per serving and I don't usually manage to
drink a whole serving at a time. Given that it helped a lot with
feeling lousy today and has almost no sorbitol, I'll call it the
lesser of the evils.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In googling, I've found mention of a stricture for "no more
than one sweet treat per day". I can't find any mention of that in my
copy of the book (although I have a 3 year old, and that impairs my
reading comprehension). I don't have any interest in sweet treats
(beyond my diet soda), but is this an induction thing or a
post-induction thing?

During Induction, no sweets. Period. Eat from the approved list, and
nothing else. It's only two weeks. Think of it as a "shock
treatment" to get you OUT of your old diet.

Well, having read the rest of New Diet Revolution, I haven't seen any
mention of just one sweet per day there either. I'll cross that bridge
when I come to it. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Sure. Beware that avocados are also calorie-rich, relative to other
vegetables.

Yeah, normally when I eat avocado it's subbed for something else
calorie-rich like mayo, so I assume it would be on induction, too.
It's not the kind of thing I'd do every day, but if I ever manage to
find a ripe avocado that isn't inside...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect that I should relax a little about most of these things, but
I'm trying to set up reasonable limits now instead of rationalizing
myself out of ketosis in a week.

Be strict for two weeks. You can do it, it's only 14 days. On day 15
you start adding in more foods (slowly 🙂.

Erm, if I'm being strict about it (from my point of view of strict)
then I couldn't have a whole avocado in one day and shouldn't eat more
than 2 cups of salad and 1 cup of other. 😉 I'm fine with following
induction closely, but I want to make sure that I'm not limiting
myself more than the plan suggests is reasonable.

Dawn

Dawn said:

Erm, if I'm being strict about it (from my point of view of strict)
then I couldn't have a whole avocado in one day and shouldn't eat more
than 2 cups of salad and 1 cup of other. 😉 I'm fine with following
induction closely, but I want to make sure that I'm not limiting
myself more than the plan suggests is reasonable.

Ok, strict when it makes sense then ;-)

DJ Delorie said:

Even Splenda has carbs, if you eat enough of it.

I'm a little hazy on this. Do even the little packets have some
carbs? They sell some stuff in a bag that's Splenda mixed with sugar,
so I know better than to touch that, but I'm not sure about the "pure"
Splenda in the packets.

All the others I looked at, like SugarTwin, also seem to have
suspicious things in their ingredients list. Are the liquid
sweeteners the only ones that are truly zero-carb?

--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Aaron Baugher said:

I'm a little hazy on this. Do even the little packets have some
carbs? They sell some stuff in a bag that's Splenda mixed with
sugar, so I know better than to touch that, but I'm not sure about
the "pure" Splenda in the packets.

The little yellow packets of Splenda? Yes. Recall that sucralose is
600x as sweet as sugar; if they only put sucralose in the packet, you
wouldn't be able to see it, there's so little of it in there. So,
they add fillers to make you see something come out of the packet.
The filler is maltodextrin, a tasteless complex carbohydrate. There's
not much in there, far less than an equivalent sweetness of sugar, but
it's non-zero. It totals up to about 24 grams of carbs per CUP of
splenda, vs 200 grams of carbs in a cup of table sugar. Each packet
is about 1g of carbs.

The bagged splenda that says "with sugar" is half sugar and half
splenda, so it's half the carbs as sugar for the equivalent sweetness.

Note that if you see "sucralose" as an *ingredient*, that's different.
No fillers there, so no carbs for that ingredient.

Another alternative is to use liquid sucralose, in such products as
Sweetzfree, which use water as the "filler" instead of maltodextrin.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:06:12 -0400, Dawn <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

DJ Delorie said:

Florida or California avocados?
http://www.delorie.com/health/ns/?fid=09039
http://www.delorie.com/health/ns/?fid=09038

California, I never really liked Florida avocados. That might explain
the discrepancy though.

Quoted message said:

Pretty much any sweetener ending in "-ol" should be counted, except
erythritol, which by general consensus can be ignored. Sodas with
sucralose or aspartame are generally free.

Quoted message said:

Is sorbitol fine? I have some tablets that make an electrolyte
drink, and they have a small amount of sorbitol. I've been sipping the
stuff off an on to keep my potassium, mag, calcium and sodium levels
reasonable and just realized that it had sorbitol. The book says that
certain sugar alcohols are acceptable, but not which ones.

Sugar alcohols should be included in the total calorie and carb count,
correct? I think I'll probably just count it as .5 carb per serving,
since it has <3 calories per serving and I don't usually manage to
drink a whole serving at a time. Given that it helped a lot with
feeling lousy today and has almost no sorbitol, I'll call it the
lesser of the evils.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In googling, I've found mention of a stricture for "no more
than one sweet treat per day". I can't find any mention of that in my
copy of the book (although I have a 3 year old, and that impairs my
reading comprehension). I don't have any interest in sweet treats
(beyond my diet soda), but is this an induction thing or a
post-induction thing?

During Induction, no sweets. Period. Eat from the approved list, and
nothing else. It's only two weeks. Think of it as a "shock
treatment" to get you OUT of your old diet.

Well, having read the rest of New Diet Revolution, I haven't seen any
mention of just one sweet per day there either. I'll cross that bridge
when I come to it. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Sure. Beware that avocados are also calorie-rich, relative to other
vegetables.

Yeah, normally when I eat avocado it's subbed for something else
calorie-rich like mayo, so I assume it would be on induction, too.
It's not the kind of thing I'd do every day, but if I ever manage to
find a ripe avocado that isn't inside...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect that I should relax a little about most of these things, but
I'm trying to set up reasonable limits now instead of rationalizing
myself out of ketosis in a week.

Be strict for two weeks. You can do it, it's only 14 days. On day 15
you start adding in more foods (slowly 🙂.

Erm, if I'm being strict about it (from my point of view of strict)
then I couldn't have a whole avocado in one day and shouldn't eat more
than 2 cups of salad and 1 cup of other. 😉 I'm fine with following
induction closely, but I want to make sure that I'm not limiting
myself more than the plan suggests is reasonable.

Dawn

I'm reading your questions and getting a feeling that you will
rationalize your way into no weight loss.

I'd think that for two weeks of induction you could really toe the
line and make do without ANY artificial sugar or avocados and only one
cup of salad. Forget the 20 and limit yourself to the 7 or 8 carbs
you have already calculated. It is only 2 weeks.

valvejob said:

Forget the 20 and limit yourself to the 7 or 8 carbs you have
already calculated.

You'll get better results at 20g than at 7g. Less is NOT always
better in this case.

Aaron Baugher said:

DJ Delorie said:

Even Splenda has carbs, if you eat enough of it.

I'm a little hazy on this. Do even the little packets have some
carbs? They sell some stuff in a bag that's Splenda mixed with sugar,
so I know better than to touch that, but I'm not sure about the "pure"
Splenda in the packets.

All the others I looked at, like SugarTwin, also seem to have
suspicious things in their ingredients list. Are the liquid
sweeteners the only ones that are truly zero-carb?

Artifician sweetners are so strong, compared to sugar, that the amount
equivalent to a spoonful of sugar is just a small puff of powder.

Think carefully, if the artificial sweetners are hundreds of times
sweeter than sugar, then a spoonful equivalent is just a puff of powder.

Therefore, the little packets are mostly FILLER plus a little puff of
powerful artificial sweetner. The fillers are often other forms of sugar
or carbohydrate based materials.

In other words, in the little packets, in a practical sense, there can't
be just a few grains of the super powerful sweetner, that could "get lost".

So, all the artificial sweetners in packets are mostly filler, plus a
tiny puff of the powerful sweetner.

Sweetzfree is just Splenda (sucralose) and water, and two drops is
equivalent to a packet of Splenda. Most people can't believe that two
drops is going to be enough so they put on quite a bit more and complain
that it is too sweet.

Dawn said:

I should be counting the carbs in eggs and other non-adulterated protein foods,
right? I'm thinking of proteins that are labeled as 0 carb per serving and have
no obvious sugar. Do I need to look them all up on the USDA charts to make sure
there aren't fractional carbs?

Looking them up makes it easier later on as you have to move to 25g,
30g, etc.

You start to get a feel for how much of which foods you can eat.

Quoted message said:

Is sorbitol fine? I have some tablets that make an electrolyte drink, and they
have a small amount of sorbitol. I've been sipping the stuff off an on to keep
my potassium, mag, calcium and sodium levels reasonable and just realized that
it had sorbitol. The book says that certain sugar alcohols are acceptable, but
not which ones.

I'm sure the sugar alcohols the book approves of are the ones that are
included in Atkins products. 😉

People who test their blood glucose find they DO metabolize some sugar
alcohols. It seems to vary per person though.

If you eat a big dose of a sugar alcohol and get the runs, you are not
metabolizing it. And you probably won't want to eat it anymore cause
of the runs.

If you eat a big dose of a sugar alcohol and don't get the runs, you
are metabolizing it, so it counts as a carb for you.

So they kinda suck either way,

I count sugar alcohols as half carbs myself. But then, I don't hardly
eat any. I buy low-carb ice cream a few times a year, that's about
it.

Here's a recipe for a "sugar-free sports drink" without sugar
alcohols:
http://ornery-geeks.org/text/cooking/sugarfreesportsdrink.asp

Quoted message said:

Treats.
In googling, I've found mention of a stricture for "no more than one sweet
treat per day". I can't find any mention of that in my copy of the book
(although I have a 3 year old, and that impairs my reading comprehension). I
don't have any interest in sweet treats (beyond my diet soda), but is this an
induction thing or a post-induction thing?

People vary. Some people find sugar-free treats make them crave the
real thing.

One of the points of induction is to stick to a relatively strict diet
which is almost certain to work for you. As you add various foods
back to your diet gradually, you get a chance to find out where you
may have problems.

So I would tend to suggest you be really strict for the first couple
weeks and then add foods back in gradually to maximize your chances
for success.

Quoted message said:

I really like avocados, but once you cut into them they really don't keep well.
My copy of the book says that I can have half an avocado per day as a treat. If
I have the available carbs, would it be reasonable (if not really strict
induction) to have a whole avocado every 2-3 days? I can't have dairy products
at all, so it would be a combination of a treat and a replacement for the
allowed 3-4 oz of cheese.

I mostly eat whole avocados. The lemon juice thing never worked for
me.

They contain one of the healthiest fats you can eat also. Good stuff.

Quoted message said:

General counting.
Should I be counting all my carbs or relying on the "2 cups salad veg, 1 cup
other veg, a special category food, etc". I ask because the book says I can have
a serving of "Other Veggies" only if I had 2 cups of salad, not 3. But if I
count net carbs, I could potentially have 3 cups of salad veg AND 1 cup of other
veg on some days and still come out under 20 net carbs. Can the 2/1 measurements
be considered just a guideline and the carb counts the real requirement?

I think you do one or the other. Relying on the vegetable count is
not going to be as accurate carb-wise. Counting carbs directly makes
it easier to add carbs later because you learn to count carbs.

Quoted message said:

I suspect that I should relax a little about most of these things, but I'm
trying to set up reasonable limits now instead of rationalizing myself out of
ketosis in a week.

Yup. You are overthinking.

The point is to switch over to a glucagon-mediated biochemistry and to
get over any cravings you have. It's really not going to make a huge
difference if you eat 2 or 3 cups of salad.

Aaron Baugher said:

DJ Delorie said:

Even Splenda has carbs, if you eat enough of it.

I'm a little hazy on this. Do even the little packets have some
carbs? They sell some stuff in a bag that's Splenda mixed with sugar,
so I know better than to touch that, but I'm not sure about the "pure"
Splenda in the packets.

Most versions of most sweeteners have maltodextrin, which is a carb.
The stuff that is measurable like sugar has the most, packets have
much less, tablets less still. Liquid versions of sweeteners are best
as they generally don't have any.

http://ornery-geeks.org/text/cooking/baking/aboutsweeteners.asp

"Dawn" --One of the main intentions of the induction period is to wean
people from eating sweets. It's a shock and was meant to be so. If you go
into it thinking, "Well, it's a diet, sure, but when do I get a sweet?" then
you are setting yourself up for failfure. We generally don't realize how
accustomed we are to eating sugary things. This induction period is tough,
but it breaks that dependency upon sugar.

Remember--it's only 14 days.

Pat in TX

Pat said:

"Dawn" --One of the main intentions of the induction period is to wean
people from eating sweets. It's a shock and was meant to be so. If you go
into it thinking, "Well, it's a diet, sure, but when do I get a sweet?" then
you are setting yourself up for failfure. We generally don't realize how
accustomed we are to eating sugary things. This induction period is tough,
but it breaks that dependency upon sugar.

Y'know - I really don't blame people for this kind of advice, because I'm sure
it's nearly always accurate. 🙂 It has been a shock - but it's been a shock that
I feel this *good*, and am this satisfied with the induction menu. The problems
I'm having (at the moment) with induction aren't really problems - they're
learning experiences. I can't eat broccoli as a snack because it makes me crave
broccoli, but I can eat it as part of a stir-fry with a higher proportion of
protein and fat without cravings. I've found a few things that it didn't occur
to me I needed to count carbs for (eggs, my fiber supplement) and decided that
for now I need to measure/weigh everything with carbs in it to get a better feel
for portion sizes.

The whole sweet treat thing came about because yesterday I was poking through
older a.s.d.l-c posts on induction and came across this (copy/pasted from
google, so any errors in attibution are mine):

Doug Freyburger wrote:
:dsr wrote:

:> Is sugar free Jello forbidden on induction? Jello is low carb sweet
:> treat that is not a trigger food for most people.

: One of the bits Dave missed is there is a limit on one sweet-treat
: per day. Gelatin is a sweet-treat. But Jello brand in specific has
: aspartame which is forbidden during Induction and should be held off
: until later. So sugar-free Jello as a specific item is indeed
: forbidden during Induction. Look for other brands as some now use
: splenda. Or get Know unflavored gelatin, unsweetened Kool Aid and
: add 1-3 packets of splenda. There's a 3 packet limit on all artificial
: sweeteners so if you like sweetened decafe don't put in all 3.

Now, I couldn't find any support for limiting sweet treats to one per day either
in induction or OWL - or for explicitly allowing a sweet treat per day on
induction. I'd rather spend my allotted carbs on veggies and other things that
make it easier for *me* to stay compliant. But people are going to ask me stupid
questions when they figure out I'm on Atkins and I'd rather not give them even
stupider answers.

Quoted message said:

Remember--it's only 14 days.

28, actually. I'm going out of town for a week in the middle. While I'm not
going to eat every carb in sight - it's much easier to know how many carbs
you've consumed when you can weigh or measure the components which contain carbs
and look things up online when you aren't sure. I don't think that I'll be
accurate enough to eyeball things for this trip and reliably stay on induction.
So I'll do the best I can and then spend another couple of weeks at home on
induction so I have the time to learn all of the little lessons that induction
can teach. I'm really enjoying induction right now, so I don't see it as a
hardship. I have enough extra weight that I don't need to be concerned if I lose
pounds a little faster in weeks 3 and 4, and I feel good enough that if I don't
lose any pounds in weeks 3 and 4 I'm not going to get upset over that either.
It's not like I gained all this weight at 50lb per week, I can't very well
expect to lose it that fast either.

- Dawn

DJ Delorie said:

The little yellow packets of Splenda? Yes. Recall that sucralose
is 600x as sweet as sugar; if they only put sucralose in the packet,
you wouldn't be able to see it, there's so little of it in there.
So, they add fillers to make you see something come out of the
packet. The filler is maltodextrin, a tasteless complex
carbohydrate. There's not much in there, far less than an
equivalent sweetness of sugar, but it's non-zero.

Thanks for the explanation; that's very clear. I knew there was
filler in there, but I thought maybe it was something inert with no
nutritional value.

Quoted message said:

It totals up to about 24 grams of carbs per CUP of splenda, vs 200
grams of carbs in a cup of table sugar. Each packet is about 1g of
carbs.

That's good to know. I wouldn't have guessed 24 packets would come
close to a cup, but I've just started using the stuff.

Quoted message said:

Another alternative is to use liquid sucralose, in such products as
Sweetzfree, which use water as the "filler" instead of maltodextrin.

I'll have to get some of that, and track down recipes that take into
account the lack of sugar's texture. Ditto stevia.

--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Dawn said:

Pat said:

"Dawn" --One of the main intentions of the induction period is to wean
people from eating sweets. It's a shock and was meant to be so. If you
go into it thinking, "Well, it's a diet, sure, but when do I get a
sweet?" then you are setting yourself up for failfure. We generally
don't realize how accustomed we are to eating sugary things. This
induction period is tough, but it breaks that dependency upon sugar.

Y'know - I really don't blame people for this kind of advice, because
I'm sure it's nearly always accurate. 🙂 It has been a shock - but it's
been a shock that I feel this *good*, and am this satisfied with the
induction menu. The problems I'm having (at the moment) with induction
aren't really problems - they're learning experiences. I can't eat
broccoli as a snack because it makes me crave broccoli, but I can eat it
as part of a stir-fry with a higher proportion of protein and fat
without cravings. I've found a few things that it didn't occur to me I
needed to count carbs for (eggs, my fiber supplement) and decided that
for now I need to measure/weigh everything with carbs in it to get a
better feel for portion sizes.

The whole sweet treat thing came about because yesterday I was poking
through older a.s.d.l-c posts on induction and came across this
(copy/pasted from google, so any errors in attibution are mine):

Doug Freyburger wrote:
:dsr wrote:

:> Is sugar free Jello forbidden on induction? Jello is low carb sweet
:> treat that is not a trigger food for most people.

: One of the bits Dave missed is there is a limit on one sweet-treat
: per day. Gelatin is a sweet-treat. But Jello brand in specific has
: aspartame which is forbidden during Induction and should be held off
: until later. So sugar-free Jello as a specific item is indeed
: forbidden during Induction. Look for other brands as some now use
: splenda. Or get Know unflavored gelatin, unsweetened Kool Aid and
: add 1-3 packets of splenda. There's a 3 packet limit on all artificial
: sweeteners so if you like sweetened decafe don't put in all 3.

Now, I couldn't find any support for limiting sweet treats to one per
day either in induction or OWL - or for explicitly allowing a sweet
treat per day on induction. I'd rather spend my allotted carbs on
veggies and other things that make it easier for *me* to stay compliant.
But people are going to ask me stupid questions when they figure out I'm
on Atkins and I'd rather not give them even stupider answers.

Some people here "invent" things about the low carb diet that aren't in
any of the books by the established experts in the field.

You have found one of the "inventions", and have gotten confused by this.

You will find many more "inventions" if you look hard enough.

I wish there was some way to give you the wisdom to learn to recognize
"inventions", but maybe you have found it. One person claiming somthing
for which there is no other written substantiation.

Good luck in your dieting, and try to avoid future distractions by
"inventions", however well intended they may be.

Jim Buch

Quoted message said:

- Dawn

Dawn wrote:
:: Pat wrote:
::: "Dawn" --One of the main intentions of the induction period is to
::: wean people from eating sweets. It's a shock and was meant to be
::: so. If you go into it thinking, "Well, it's a diet, sure, but when
::: do I get a sweet?" then you are setting yourself up for failfure.
::: We generally don't realize how accustomed we are to eating sugary
::: things. This induction period is tough, but it breaks that
::: dependency upon sugar.
::
:: Y'know - I really don't blame people for this kind of advice,
:: because I'm sure it's nearly always accurate. 🙂 It has been a shock
:: - but it's been a shock that I feel this *good*, and am this
:: satisfied with the induction menu. The problems I'm having (at the
:: moment) with induction aren't really problems - they're learning
:: experiences. I can't eat broccoli as a snack because it makes me
:: crave broccoli,

Whaaattt? That's a good thing, if you ask me!

You seem to have a very good attitude about this, Dawn!

Dawn said:

Quoted message said:

Remember--it's only 14 days.

28, actually. I'm going out of town for a week in the middle.

Induction is 14 days. If you're not doing it in 14 days, you're not
doing Induction - you're doing something of your own invention.

What you're doing is the first half of induction - then stopping -
then the first half again. IMHO, you'd be better off telling yourself
"I'm starting now" when you get back, and doing it by the book.

Once you're comfortable with the new diet, you'll be better able to
carry it through trips, but Induction is better done when you don't
have such huge distractions, and when you can switch to OWL at the
correct time.

Not that you shouldn't give it a test run before your trip of course,
but don't expect the two-week results one week after you return from
your trip.

"Dawn" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Remember--it's only 14 days.

28, actually. I'm going out of town for a week in the middle. While I'm
not going to eat every carb in sight - it's much easier to know how many
carbs you've consumed when you can weigh or measure the components which
contain carbs and look things up online when you aren't sure.

That won't work. Period. Its not that hard -- just bring your list of foods.

- 4 oz of cheese = 1/2 of an 8oz pack
- Eggs are .5g each
- Bring a cup to measure out your salads,
or buy paper bowls of known capacity
- print out the list & bring it with:
http://tinyurl.com/mqkfj (link to list on A's site)

That's about it!

Otherwise, just start when you get back.

Dawn said:

Quoted message said:

Remember--it's only 14 days.

28, actually. I'm going out of town for a week in the middle.

Then be on Induction while out of town. It isn't all that hard to
do that. Burgers without ketchup, keep the lettuce and such
ditch the bun. Or Subway "make any 6 inch sub a salad". It
gets boring fast but you aren't traveling for months.

Quoted message said:

While I'm not
going to eat every carb in sight - it's much easier to know how many carbs
you've consumed when you can weigh or measure the components which contain carbs
and look things up online when you aren't sure. I don't think that I'll be
accurate enough to eyeball things for this trip and reliably stay on induction.

I disagree that it's hard to stay on Induction while traveling.
What's hard on the road is targeting a specific carb quota
when you aren't familiar with the foods that get you there -
As in the initial weeks of OWL while you're searching for
your CCLL.

Quoted message said:

I'm really enjoying induction right now, so I don't see it as a
hardship.

While long term loss is better on OWL (it IS named that
for a reason) adding a couple of weeks to Induction because
you're traveling works better than starting and stopping
Induction.

Quoted message said:

I have enough extra weight that I don't need to be concerned if I lose
pounds a little faster in weeks 3 and 4,

Some points -

Induction includes water loss so you can't know how fast
you are really losing fat. And once the water is gone there
is no more to lose. It is physically impossible to lose fat
as fast as you'll lose water+fat during the first two weeks.
Do not use the water loss time to set fat-loss rate
expectations.

So many folks pause during week 3 that you should expect
that to happen.

Staying on Induction doesn't increase loss rates no matter
how many people assert that it does. If it did, every single
diet book out there would tell to to stay low as long as
possible but none say that. Less is not more.

Quoted message said:

and I feel good enough that if I don't
lose any pounds in weeks 3 and 4 I'm not going to get upset over that either.

Excellent. Because of the rapid water loss of the first 2 weeks
a pause then is common and not a sign of anything wrong.

Quoted message said:

It's not like I gained all this weight at 50lb per week, I can't very well
expect to lose it that fast either.

It took me 20 years to gain my 50 pounds. If I compare how I lost
in my first 6 months on Atkins I lost fast. If I compare how I lost
in my first 6 months on Atkins against my desires I lost slow. A
matter of perspectives that is SO hard to take early on.