Avocet Touring Tires

I use the road and crit versions of the FasGrip and find them to be
excellent. I would expect the 32mm to be also.

David

Don DeMair said:

I'm looking for a good touring tire. One that will be puncture resistant,
especially in the rain. I've tried the Specialized Armadillo and was pretty
happy with it, I may buy it again. The other tire I tried was the
Continental Top Touring. I found this tire to ride a bit harsh.

I would prefer a slick tire (without a tread pattern) because I think the
inverted tread actually catches debris and may lead to more flats. I also
don't believe that tread pattern does anything to improve wet or dry grip on
the road. And I don't use my touring bike off-road.

Right now, I'm considering the Avocet FasGrip Duro Plus. Probably in a
700x32. Anyone have experience with this tire?

-Don

Don DeMair said:

Right now, I'm considering the Avocet FasGrip Duro Plus. Probably in a
700x32. Anyone have experience with this tire?

i've used the duro version (28mm) quite a bit in the past 2 years & and i have
mixed feelings about it. it's a *NICE* tire, but it nicks up rather easily
and somewhat less than half have worn out before i couldn't boot 'em. that
may have been a bad batch, got me. they also don't do well against the
dreaded goathead thorn but then again, nothing does. i'd forego the kevlar
(it made no difference as far as i could tell and i used both). off-hand
i'd say less than average for flat resistance.

i hate conti tt2ks and the avocet cross iis i liked allright (rode those on a
5400 mile tour). fwiw, i'll be touring on the 28mm duro later this summer
for a couple of weeks (they're letting me have a vacation this year!).

i don't have to quit for time off!!

!!!!

!!!!!!!!
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

"Don DeMair" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a good touring tire. One that will be puncture resistant,
especially in the rain. I've tried the Specialized Armadillo and was

pretty

Quoted message said:

happy with it, I may buy it again. The other tire I tried was the
Continental Top Touring. I found this tire to ride a bit harsh.

I would prefer a slick tire (without a tread pattern) because I think the
inverted tread actually catches debris and may lead to more flats. I also
don't believe that tread pattern does anything to improve wet or dry grip

on

Quoted message said:

the road. And I don't use my touring bike off-road.

I use the Avocet Cross Kevlar for commuting on my mountain bike for years ..
works great .. never got a puncture.

While a slick tire would certain improve traction on dry roads ... I don't
see why you think a tread won't improve wet road traction ... unless your
tire "contact point" is so small and your speed is so slow that you would
not hydroplane in puddles. In the automotive (and motorcycle) world the
main (if not the only) reason for tread in a street tire is for wet weather
use.

Richard in Boston, MA, USA

"Don DeMair" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would prefer a slick tire (without a tread pattern) because I think the
inverted tread actually catches debris and may lead to more flats. I also
don't believe that tread pattern does anything to improve wet or dry grip
on the road. And I don't use my touring bike off-road.

Richard Amirault said:

While a slick tire would certain improve traction on dry roads ... I don't
see why you think a tread won't improve wet road traction ... unless your
tire "contact point" is so small and your speed is so slow that you would
not hydroplane in puddles. In the automotive (and motorcycle) world the
main (if not the only) reason for tread in a street tire is for wet weather
use.

Hydroplaning is an issue for cars and motorcycles (though a rare one: in
my 44 years of driving, I've only experienced hydroplaning once.)

However, hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles, so this is a non-issue.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_h.html#hydroplaning for a detailed
explanation of this.

Sheldon "Baldy" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------+
| Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees |
| things as they are, not as they ought to be. |
| --Ambrose Bierce |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Don DeMair" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a good touring tire. One that will be puncture
resistant, especially in the rain. I've tried the Specialized
Armadillo and was pretty happy with it, I may buy it again. The
other tire I tried was the Continental Top Touring. I found this
tire to ride a bit harsh.

I would prefer a slick tire (without a tread pattern) because I think
the inverted tread actually catches debris and may lead to more
flats. I also don't believe that tread pattern does anything to
improve wet or dry grip on the road. And I don't use my touring bike
off-road.

Absolutely the same reasons I turfed the horrible "hybrid" tyres my bike
came with and went for the Avocets.

Quoted message said:

Right now, I'm considering the Avocet FasGrip Duro Plus. Probably in
a 700x32. Anyone have experience with this tire?

I have the 32K FasGrips. I love them but I've only had them a couple of
months so I can't really comment on durability.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Richard Amirault said:

While a slick tire would certain improve traction on dry roads ... I don't
see why you think a tread won't improve wet road traction ... unless your
tire "contact point" is so small and your speed is so slow that you would
not hydroplane in puddles.

You are perfectly correct, in a sense; what you may not know is that your
"unless" criteria are true at all bicycle speeds.

Tyre profile is also an issue - round tyres (like bicycles) are harder to
aquaplane than square ones like on motor cars. Typically a bicycle tyre
would be expected to aquaplane at 70-100mph.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

Sheldon Brown wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hydroplaning is an issue for cars and motorcycles (though a rare one: in
my 44 years of driving, I've only experienced hydroplaning once.)

However, hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles, so this is a non-issue.

Aquaplaning is the term, and certainly has happened to me riding a bicycle.
Speed of about 40mph downhill, sheet of water over the road, bucketing it
down. Apply brakes to slow to negotiate parked car, bike drifts towards
gutter maintaining speed, look down, front wheel locked so release brakes.
Balance was retained with slow response to steering efforts. Rare but
possible.

TJ

Richard Amirault said:

While a slick tire would certain improve traction on dry roads ... I don't
see why you think a tread won't improve wet road traction ...

You imagine that it would improve wet road traction, but that is not based
on anything other than marketing.

Quoted message said:

unless your
tire "contact point" is so small and your speed is so slow that you
would not hydroplane in puddles.

All bikes have a contact region "so small" and speed "so slow" that they
will not hydroplane in any puddle at any attainable speed.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
_`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
(_)/ (_) |

Trevor Jeffrey said:

Sheldon Brown wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hydroplaning is an issue for cars and motorcycles (though a rare one: in
my 44 years of driving, I've only experienced hydroplaning once.)

Really? I've experienced it more than that. Scary.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However, hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles, so this is a non-issue.

Aquaplaning is the term, and certainly has happened to me riding a bicycle.

Hydroplaning is a perfectly reasonable term for the phenomenon, and it has
not happened to you riding a bicycle.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

Sheldon Brown said:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike
tire) with a smooth surface...

--
Størker Moe
'86 DBS 5-speed, '97 GT Avalanche, '98 Trek 800, '01 Trek Fuel 90

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)chemeng(DOT)ntnu(DOT)no
WWW http://www.chemeng.ntnu.no/~stmoe/

I pontificated:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

St=F8rker Moe asked:

Quoted message said:

=20
I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar=20
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike =

Quoted message said:

tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.

It is very counterintuitive to ride on smooth tires. Most people, when=20
they see slick tires, the first thing that goes through their head is=20
the thought that they must be very slippery in wet conditions.

It's easier to cater to this misconception than to try to educate=20
potential customers.

I remember selling the Bridgestone RB-T touring bike back in the 90s,=20
which came with Avocet Duro tires (28 mm, marked 32 back then.)

When you would show the bike to a customer the first thing they would=20
say was "aren't those tires slippery in wet conditions?"

If you could get them to test ride the bike, they were liable to fall in =

love with the way it rode. They would usualy attribute this to some=20
magical quality of the frame design or materials. Mant customers would=20
insist that the tires be swapped out before they'd take delivery...

Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown
+------------------------------------------------+
| You can get more with a kind word and a gun |
| than you can with a kind word alone. |
| -- Al Capone |
+------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
I pontificated:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

Størker Moe asked:

Quoted message said:

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike
tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.

It is very counterintuitive to ride on smooth tires. Most people, when
they see slick tires, the first thing that goes through their head is
the thought that they must be very slippery in wet conditions.

It's easier to cater to this misconception than to try to educate
potential customers.

I remember selling the Bridgestone RB-T touring bike back in the 90s,
which came with Avocet Duro tires (28 mm, marked 32 back then.)

When you would show the bike to a customer the first thing they would
say was "aren't those tires slippery in wet conditions?"

If you could get them to test ride the bike, they were liable to fall in
love with the way it rode. They would usualy attribute this to some
magical quality of the frame design or materials. Mant customers would
insist that the tires be swapped out before they'd take delivery...

Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown

Again, Sheldon is right on point. Maybe Moe should also read the Bicycle
FAQ:

Tires with smooth treads (aka slicks):

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-11.html

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sheldon Brown said:

I pontificated:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

Størker Moe asked:

Quoted message said:

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike
tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.

No, it's because flat bar bikes are mountain bikes or hybrids, meant to
be ridden on dirt. Slicks work poorly on dirt but great on pavement.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>
(Remove the REMOVE_THIS from my email address to reply.)

David L. Johnson wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Hydroplaning is a perfectly reasonable term for the phenomenon, and it has
not happened to you riding a bicycle.

I am also certain that the above respondent was not with me on the said
journey of which I bear testament. The respondent has no knowledge of my
experience other than what has been presented to this newsgroup. Ignorance
of the facts, whether with intent for the purpose of callous jibes or
otherwise, cannot in any way whatsoever be termed as evidence. The
repetition of falsehoods does not bring them any nearer to fact than the
infinitesimal distance that they stood fifteen years previously.
I experienced aquaplaning whilst riding a bicycle. The speed was
approx. 40mph, on a decline with 20-25mm standing water. Tyre section was
25-28mm, pressure 90psi tyres were most probably Michelin HI-LITES 700x25c
rim Super Champion Mixte.
Treaded tyres of the same construction and materials have an enhanced
grip, in the wet, over their otherwise similar non-treaded brethren. The
raised portion of the tread gives a higher pressure contact patch than is
possible with a bald tyre. The regions of high pressure force the water
between the road surface and the tyre to migrate to the areas of low
pressure thus allowing the tyre to contact the road and provide stiction.
Directional stability of the wheel is assured in usual wet conditions due to
the tyre contact patch being of good length.
In order for a bald tyre to function in the wet, extreme inflation
pressure is required to attempt to match the penetrative qualities of a
treaded tyre with its associated regions of high pressure. The extreme
inflation pressure shortens the tyre contact patch to a length where
insufficient lateral stability of the tyre is available resulting in
skittish behaviour in the dry and sideslip in the wet though corners. The
above is assuming a nominal wheel diameter of 27", riders of 48" wheels and
above may find adequacy in bald, hard and narrow tyres.
Lower inflation pressures are also more comfortable, which translates
to less rider stress, which allows greater mileage and speed per ride, per
period, per season.
TJ

Trevor Jeffrey said:

David L. Johnson wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Hydroplaning is a perfectly reasonable term for the phenomenon, and it has
not happened to you riding a bicycle.

I am also certain that the above respondent was not with me on the said
journey of which I bear testament. The respondent has no knowledge of my
experience other than what has been presented to this newsgroup.

Big deal. If you told us you'd rode along the flat at 70mph and jumped to
the moon, that would be physically impossible too.

Quoted message said:

I experienced aquaplaning whilst riding a bicycle.

No, you didn't. A total loss of wheel traction on a single-track vehicle
will result in an immediate sideways fall.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

|> I experienced aquaplaning whilst riding a bicycle.
|
|No, you didn't. A total loss of wheel traction on a single-track vehicle
|will result in an immediate sideways fall.

Simple "loss of traction" does not ordinarily cause a rapidly traveling
vehicle to suddenly fall on its side and take a spill. For instance,
airplanes lose traction all the time, and they tend to leap into the air
instead, often flying up into the wild blue yonder. It has something
to do with conservation of momentum, and the bicycle's tendency to
follow the path that its inertia dictates.

St=F8rker Moe asked:

Quoted message said:

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do
almost all tires for flat-bar bikes have
tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or
28" non-racer bike tire) with a smooth
surface...

Marketing. In this "automobized" world, people have come to believe that
_all_ tires need something to channel away water in wet conditions.
While this is true for a flat surfaced car tire, which can skim across a
wet surface (like a water ski does), it does not hold true for a round
profiled one, which simply pushes water aside as it contacts the
surface, like a snow plow.

Now conceivablly you could go fast enough that the water doesn't have
enough time to "get out of the way", but that speed must be ferociously
fast. Just how fast would a deep-V boat hull have to go before it can
completely aquaplane? That is ALL of it's hull on top of the water (no
wake)?

I have ridden bike tires with tread, both standard and inverted, and
without. There is no difference in wet traction that have discerned.
What the tread is made out of (rubber composition and stickyness) is
what makes the main difference in bike tires.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Of course, my previous comments only apply to hard surfaces, like
pavement of rock. In dirt, thread does have a purpose, it helps grab the
loose surface.

Quoted message said:

Legal disclaimer: Done

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Richard Amirault said:

"Don DeMair" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a good touring tire. One that will be puncture resistant,
especially in the rain. I've tried the Specialized Armadillo and was

pretty

Quoted message said:

happy with it, I may buy it again. The other tire I tried was the
Continental Top Touring. I found this tire to ride a bit harsh.

I would prefer a slick tire (without a tread pattern) because I think the
inverted tread actually catches debris and may lead to more flats. I also
don't believe that tread pattern does anything to improve wet or dry grip
on the road. And I don't use my touring bike off-road.

Quoted message said:

While a slick tire would certain improve traction on dry roads ... I don't
see why you think a tread won't improve wet road traction ... unless your
tire "contact point" is so small and your speed is so slow that you would
not hydroplane in puddles.

The rule developed for estimating when hydroplaning conditions exist for
landing planes which have smooth tires is that
V(mph) >= 10 * tire pressure (psi).

Since I generally run my tires at about 100 psi and keep my speed below
100 mph I satisfy your condition that the "contact point is so small and
your speed is so slow that you would not hydroplane."

Quoted message said:

In the automotive (and motorcycle) world the
main (if not the only) reason for tread in a street tire is for wet weather
use.

With tire pressures around 30 psi and speeds over 55 mph hydroplaning
becomes a serious problem.