Avoiding leg cramps

"I wasn't making any judgements on your fitness, etc. " Yes, thanks,
BMI is a sore point with my doc and I.
Thanks for the advice.

I had cramps at WR too starting around mile 20 on Swiss Ave. I ran 4 20
mile training runs leading up to it including Chicago in October. I cramped
there too and I believe it is nutrition related. The temperature was
perfect at WR. The thing I'm gonna try in my next race which is a 50k trail
run is to take in more salt during the run. I tried to rely on gel and
powerade and that just doesn't do it for me.

Good luck in your next race.
Dennis

"codehammer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I ran my first marathon Dec. 11, 2005 (Dallas, White Rock). All was
good until mile 18, where leg cramps started. I was able to complete
the marathon, although not in the 4:30 I hoped for. I did stay hydrated
(water and Gaterade), had enrgy gells as well. At 6'1", 220 lbs, are
cramps something I will have to deal with, or is there something I can
do to avoid them?

"Dennis Cox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:xqqLf.16622$GQ.15490@trnddc03...

Quoted message said:

I had cramps at WR too starting around mile 20 on Swiss Ave. I ran 4
20 mile training runs leading up to it including Chicago in October. I
cramped there too and I believe it is nutrition related. The
temperature was perfect at WR. The thing I'm gonna try in my next race
which is a 50k trail run is to take in more salt during the run. I
tried to rely on gel and powerade and that just doesn't do it for me.

At least trails races have aid stations with salt, drinks and food.

-DF

steve common said:

codehammer said:

is salt really the answer, sounds very 'old school'.

<personal opinion not shared by all here>
For most westerners, there's way more salt than needed in everyday food.
So, unless you were poorly fed beforehand, there's no use popping salt
caps during a marathon - unless it's in the desert and you're taking 6
hours to finish or something wild.

Our diet may have excess salt (mine used to), but the body is pretty
eficient at removing excess. So I don't think a salty meal the night
before is going to result in a significant salt reserve the next
morning. It's not like it accumulates in the body.

But I'm not sure how strongly I disagree with the conclusion that salt
tablets are not needed.

with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
levels.

ed.

Ed Prochak said:

with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
levels.

Because it would be undrinkable!

Tim

Tim Downie said:

Ed Prochak said:

with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
levels.

Because it would be undrinkable!

FWIW, I don't find their "endurance formula" with twice the salt to be
any more or less drinkable than the original recipe. At least, not
when drinking a few oz at a time during road races.

"Ed Prochak" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
levels.

Ed, because it would taste like [censored] and no one would drink it and thus
not buy it and therefore not make money and [censored] of the stockholders.
Keep it cheap and sweet and it sells. 'Tis the American way.

-Doug

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim Downie said:

Ed Prochak said:

with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially
created,
I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
levels.

Because it would be undrinkable!

FWIW, I don't find their "endurance formula" with twice the salt to be
any more or less drinkable than the original recipe. At least, not
when drinking a few oz at a time during road races.

But it still doesn't have enough. It's still is the same old [censored] with
just a hint more salt.

-DF

Doug Freese said:

"Ed Prochak" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
levels.

Ed, because it would taste like [censored] and no one would drink it and thus
not buy it and therefore not make money and [censored] of the stockholders.
Keep it cheap and sweet and it sells. 'Tis the American way.

-Doug

I thought gaterade was formulated to help their football team play
better. Marketting to America was an afterthought.

The concentration seems to me would be close to the salty tase of
blood. Not a great taste, but it it isn't barf time. Then again, a few
drops of blood from a cut lip might not represent the taste of several
mouthfulls.

Tim might have references to studies, but I haven't tasted anything
with the concentration like that AFAIK. What would the salt level be?
Saltier than say pickle juice?

Maybe that's the solution, rather than sugar, add seasonings.

<fake ad>
.... and our new GATROLYTE, besides isotonic electrolytes levels for
sodium, potasium, and calcium,
has two great new tastes: Kosher Dill !! and
for those cold winter months: Ceyanne Pepper !!
It gives you the balance your body needs with a taste your mouth will
crave.
Avaible soon at...
<end fake ad>

Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
think it necessarily is bad tasting.

As my wife likes to point out: you didn't know if you liked chocolate
until you tried it.
Ed

On 24 Feb 2006 20:39:37 -0800, "Ed Prochak" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my wife likes to point out: you didn't know if you liked chocolate
until you tried it.
Ed

She still running around 380lbs Ed?

Ed Prochak said:

Tim might have references to studies, but I haven't tasted anything
with the concentration like that AFAIK. What would the salt level be?
Saltier than say pickle juice?

Blood plasma has a lot more salt than Gatorade I think, something like
3200mg/l (140mmol/l at 23g/mol is that right anybody)?

Gatorade is
Sodium 464 mg/l
Potassium 127 mg/l
Carbs 59000 mg/l

By comparison, the Sodium content (mostly as bicarbonate) of Vichy
Saint-Yorre sparkling mineral water is a lot higher.
Sodium 1708 mg/l
Bicarb 4368 mg/l
Potassium 132 mg/l.
Calcium 90 mg/l
Magnesium 11 mg/l

which is why it gets used a lot by athletes over here, specially in
Summer. It's salty but nothing like a mouthful of pickle juice :-)

I put energy drink powder in it to get an after-workout recovery drink and
for carbo loading before marathons. I often use the water alone as my
morning "top-up" fluid before shorter races.

"Ed Prochak" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I thought gaterade was formulated to help their football team play
better. Marketting to America was an afterthought.

I'm not sure of their motivation for the new formula other than pure
maraketing with an endurance angle. With the additional publicity in the
running community about hyponatremia and people croaking, I think they
are looking for a new market. I know they have a fairly sophisticated
lab but the corporations still live on profits. 🙂

If it was for their football team were are talking about a game that
lasts for an hour with lots of breaks with offense and defense riding
the pine. In a marathon, especaily those out there for more than 4 hours
the juice is woefully short of salt. Toss in a hot day and that's when
people get into real trouble.

Quoted message said:

The concentration seems to me would be close to the salty tase of
blood. Not a great taste, but it it isn't barf time.

How long do you think a runner can take the taste before he feels the
urge to barf? Think of ocean water being your source of fluid. Taste,
be it salt, sweet or specific flavors tend to get repulsive over time.
Once you hit that stage you're in deep [censored]. You need to drink yet
can't. So many of us to avoid this delemma will do plain water, coke,
Mountain dew, Sports drinks for a variety flavors. We take out salt in
caps to avoid any taste issue. As long as we can get some water down we
can get our salt.

Quoted message said:

Saltier than say pickle juice?

Maybe ocean water or worse.

Quoted message said:

Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
think it necessarily is bad tasting.

It's still Gatorade and I'm not a good person to ask about how their
products taste. 🙂 Other than some additional salt it's the same cheap
simple sugar [censored]. If they wanted to make a real endurance drink it
would be made from maltodextrin, but maltodextrin is expensive yada
yada.

The amount of salt they added will likely help some people. IMO it is
marketing smoke to make more money. Not much different than shoe
companies changing model colors each year.

-DougF

Ed Prochak said:

Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
think it necessarily is bad tasting.

Ed, Mix it up yourself and test it. Nothing says we have to use
commercial drinks and some folks do mix their own drinks from, say,
water, honey or sugar or maltodextrin, salt, or whatever.

Dot

--
"Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter

Doug Freese said:

"Ed Prochak" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I thought gaterade was formulated to help their football team play
better. Marketting to America was an afterthought.

I'm not sure of their motivation for the new formula other than pure
maraketing with an endurance angle. With the additional publicity in the
running community about hyponatremia and people croaking, I think they
are looking for a new market. I know they have a fairly sophisticated
lab but the corporations still live on profits. 🙂

I could be wrong, but I think the original gatorade was for the football
team, and that's what's been available for many years. Then they
developed a new Endurance formula for longer endurance (greater than 1
hr?) that's been out maybe a year (?) - with more electrolytes, but not
sure about carbs. I was going to check, but their website is freakin'
slow to load and rather obtuse in giving me the info.

Dot

--
"Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter

Dot said:

Ed Prochak said:

Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
think it necessarily is bad tasting.

Ed, Mix it up yourself and test it. Nothing says we have to use
commercial drinks and some folks do mix their own drinks from, say,
water, honey or sugar or maltodextrin, salt, or whatever.

Dot

--
"Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter

since steve posted the numbers, I may try it. Gatorade and their like
seem to work okay for me, but maybe there is a better formula. I'm just
wondering how to measure it out. I don't have a lab scale handy. I
womder how much is in those little salt packets you get at the fast
food places?

I'll report back if I get it mixed. (3.2g/l sodium. but still wondering
how/were to get the potasium).

Science awaits.
ed

Ed Prochak said:

I'll report back if I get it mixed. (3.2g/l sodium. but still wondering
how/were to get the potasium).

Don't mix a whole litre cos I'm sure you're gonna chuck it down the
privvy when you've tasted it :-)

Hey Ed,
You mentioned your wife, and I was wondering if she'd dropped any of
that 369lbs she has packed on over the years?

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure of their motivation for the new formula other than pure
maraketing with an endurance angle.

Where's Sam? He hasn't posted for several months. Didn't he do some work
for Gatorade at one time?

--
Phil M.

dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

I could be wrong, but I think the original gatorade was for the football
team, and that's what's been available for many years. Then they
developed a new Endurance formula for longer endurance (greater than 1
hr?) that's been out maybe a year (?) - with more electrolytes, but not
sure about carbs. I was going to check, but their website is freakin'
slow to load and rather obtuse in giving me the info.

This is what I have:

Gatorade Gatorade Endurance
----------------------------------------------------------
kcal 75 75
Sodium 150 300
Potassium 45 135
Carbs 21 21

--
Phil M.

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure of their motivation for the new formula other than pure
maraketing with an endurance angle.

Where's Sam? He hasn't posted for several months. Didn't he do some
work
for Gatorade at one time?

Sam followed or worked closely with the lab. I think he grew tired of
all the trolling [censored] on r.r and now frequents other forms where
a_holes are not allowed and bounced quicker than Lance can say racist.

-DF