AW Naw...

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

I predict many hot heads!

Tell them to take their helmets off, they'll be much cooler.

Colin

"Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:30:14 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

I predict many hot heads!

Quoted message said:

Tell them to take their helmets off, they'll be much cooler.

IRTA 'Troll them'... :-)

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:30:14 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

I suppose those not interested can filter it out.

I assume that such a list contains many helmet zealots. After all
the fact that their training and experience is to do with repairing
injuries has never stopped such bods claiming superior knowledge on
causing injuries:-) I believe the term is medical arrogance.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:30:14 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

Quoted message said:

I suppose those not interested can filter it out.

Quoted message said:

I assume that such a list contains many helmet zealots. After all
the fact that their training and experience is to do with repairing
injuries has never stopped such bods claiming superior knowledge on
causing injuries:-) I believe the term is medical arrogance.

Actually, so far, there have only been three posters, of which I am one.

---------------------------------------------

Dear colleagues,

Does anyone know whether BAEM and/or FAEM is officially supportive of
proposals for mandatory cycle helmet legislation? I am aware (much to my
surprise) that the BMA is not currently supportive of such proposals.

---------------------------

Is there evidence that mandatory cycle legislation will result in better
health for the whole population?

Given that legislation of this type would be quite likely to result in
fewer cyclists and a more sedentary population it would have to be a
very good study to find the balance between the expected decrease in
head injuries with the increase in flab related disorders. Just looking
at head injuries is not enough to be convincing.

--------------------------------------

There are certainly no published studies to date that demonstrates excess
cardiovascular morbidity and mortality in 'ex-cyclists' in countries where
mandatory legislation has been introduced over the last 10 years.

The evidence that there are fewer cyclists today, for example, in Australia,
than there were prior to the implementation of this type of legislation is
also lacking.

May I ask what is your own background *****?

---------------------------------

I've recently witnessed a similar debate on a different forum.
Unfortunately the only people who appeared to be very well informed were
the rabid anti-helmet lobby. Although I admit I am sympathetic to their
cause the debate was not well balanced as there was no-one stating the
point of view of the pro-helmet lot with any degree of authority.

I imagine that this would be a good place to hear the evidence from the
pro-helmet side of things, hence my previous post.

It seems reasonable to operate on the basic principle that legislative
changes which affect individuals' freedoms are to be avoided unless
faced with overwhelming evidence.

---------------------------------------

I useful starting point is the Cochrane Library in terms of the evidence for
benefit. Happy to send a pdf file of this if access is difficult.

Quoted message said:

I've recently witnessed a similar debate on a different forum.
Unfortunately the only people who appeared to be very well informed were
the rabid anti-helmet lobby. Although I admit I am sympathetic to their
cause the debate was not well balanced as there was no-one stating the
point of view of the pro-helmet lot with any degree of authority.

-----------------------------------

If you are talking about discussions on newsgroups like uk.rec.cycling,
most posters are actually anti *compulsion*, not anti *helmet*. Since
compulsion may follow when helmet use is high enough, some see
helmet-wearing as a silent vote for compulsion. Many people who post on
uk.rec.cycling wear a helmet, whatever they post.

The evidence, however does *not* point to any clear-cut benefit of
helmet-wearing.

Cycling helmets are rather flimsy and made to standards that would only
provide protection in low-speed impacts. They increase the size and
weight of the head making impact more likely. Many are poorly fitted.

(I, personally, could never get my helmet to sit well enough on my head
that, in the event of a frontal blow, I would not have sustained a
laryngeal injury. This was despite spending *ages* choosing a helmet and
adjusting straps very frequently.)

Helmets are hot, bulky, uncomfortable and awkward to store when off the bike.

Despite this, I wore my helmet when I was cycling >11,000 miles per year.

I am not cycling or working now due to MS. (I was a Staff Grade, and
previously a Senior Registrar in A&E)

---------------------------------------

So far, fairly neutral.

Watch this space!

I will keep us up-to-date, so long as my news & mail servers are
functioning (which they weren't, earlier today)

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

David Hansen said:

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

Quoted message said:

I assume that such a list contains many helmet zealots

At least one A&E nurse has a Holy Crusade to make everybody worship at the
church of the foam hat.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

David Hansen said:

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

Quoted message said:

I assume that such a list contains many helmet zealots

At least one A&E nurse has a Holy Crusade to make everybody worship at the
church of the foam hat.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

David Hansen said:

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

Quoted message said:

I assume that such a list contains many helmet zealots

At least one A&E nurse has a Holy Crusade to make everybody worship at the
church of the foam hat.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

David Hansen wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I assume that such a list contains many helmet zealots

Quoted message said:

At least one A&E nurse has a Holy Crusade to make everybody worship at the
church of the foam hat.

I don't think she's on acad-ae-med which is mostly doctors.

Here's the latest

----------------------

There is now very strong evidence from case control studies that well
fitting cycle helmets made to appropriate standards reduce the risks of
serious injury to the head, brain and upper face by approximately 2/3 in
adults and children, irrespective of the mechanism. The Cochrane author's
response to its critics in the discussion section is particularly
informative.

----------------------

I'm not going to ride again & CBA to read Cochrane or to get involved in
discussions too much.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

The evidence that there are fewer cyclists today, for example, in
Australia, than there were prior to the implementation of this type
of legislation is also lacking.

Except in Australia ;-)

What has happened is that the number of cyclists in some areas has returned
to pre-law levels, but the returnees are more likely to be occasional
recreational users and not transportational cyclists (it is transportational
cycling which is associated with the greatest health benefits). At the same
time, there has been a substantial increase in poulation, and cycling has
become more popular in some other developed countries, so not only is the
proportion of the population who cycle still lower than before the laws,
there has been a decade of lost growth, and average mileage per cyclist has
reportedly changed for the worse.

Quoted message said:

I've recently witnessed a similar debate on a different forum.
Unfortunately the only people who appeared to be very well informed
were the rabid anti-helmet lobby.

Challenge them to name names. I only know one person who is rabidly
anti-helmet, but a large number who are rabidly anti [censored] (and anti
BeHIT!).

Quoted message said:

I useful starting point is the Cochrane Library in terms of the
evidence for benefit. Happy to send a pdf file of this if access is
difficult.

Except that this is written largely by self-confessed helmet zealots, and
has been widely criticised.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

I predict many hot heads!

You can probably stop it before it takes off by posting a link to the
Scttish Parliament's report on it. Can't remember it but tapping 'cycle
helmet' into their search box on the homepage brings it up.

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:32:51 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

There is now very strong evidence from case control studies that well
fitting cycle helmets made to appropriate standards reduce the risks of
serious injury to the head, brain and upper face by approximately 2/3 in
adults and children, irrespective of the mechanism. The Cochrane author's
response to its critics in the discussion section is particularly
informative.

The response of the Cochrane authors is essentially to rubbish any
criticism and offer no explanation as to why their optimistic figures
are never met in practice. Diane Thompson's replies seem to me to be
arrogant in the extreme, but then she does still think her original
85% estimate is right even though she can't prove more than about 2/3.

If you want some more ammo, email me and I'll put you in contact with
some people I know...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

If you want some more ammo, email me and I'll put you in contact with
some people I know...

Quoted message said:

Guy

The list has gone quiet and I'm not going to stir.

I've lost your email address; can you send it to me?

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

I've lost your email address; can you send it to me?

guy dot chapman at spamcop dot net.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

I predict many hot heads!

That was a disappointment - I saw the header and thought it was going
to be a thread about Sturmey 3-speeds.

--
Andrew P

--
Naqerj

Naqerj <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:30:14 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The academic A&E mailing list ([email hidden]) has just
started discussing h****ts.

I predict many hot heads!

Quoted message said:

That was a disappointment - I saw the header and thought it was going
to be a thread about Sturmey 3-speeds.

Quoted message said:

--
Andrew P

I gooved you expected an ectopic umra fred...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

I gooved you expected an ectopic umra fred...

That would be "Aw naw, Deevid..."

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

you know? said:

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

I gooved you expected an ectopic umra fred...

That would be "Aw naw, Deevid..."

Deavid!

Colin

Quoted message said:

That would be "Aw naw, Deevid..."

Guy

Pet, you just divvint have a Geordie aaksint. It would be, "Oohnoe, Deevid"

Whey if y'like, pet, hav a shufty heer. Bonnie laad...

http://www.geordiepride.demon.co.uk/dictionary.htm

Haawaay the laads...

helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

On 17 Sep 2004 14:19:23 GMT, [email hidden]
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Pet, you just divvint have a Geordie aaksint. It would be, "Oohnoe, Deevid"

But I have read "Larn yesel Geordie" and listened to Ruth on Gur
Nepuref ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University