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Back wheel alignment problems

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Published
4 August 2003
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7 August 2003
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Dan Musicant
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  1. Never had a problem with this bike before, a Miyata 12 speed I bought used in like-new condition
    about 3 years ago. It's a basic road-commuter bike, nothing fancy, but it has a decent triple-butted
    frame and I've taken to daily 12 milers up in the hills (about 1000 foot elevation).

    I had a blowout on the back and changed the back tire about 3 weeks ago and got a flat a couple days
    ago from a staple but I noticed that the left-most wall of that new tire was being abraided to the
    point where the nylon belting could be seen in places. Looking, I conclude that this could only be
    caused by the tire rubbing against the left chainstay. I looked and saw an adjustment mechanism on
    the left side where the dropout seats at the chainstay and I adjusted this with a screwdriver so
    that the wheel would "want" to seat so that it's properly aligned. Things seemed fine and I put on a
    new tire, thinking that the abraided tire wasn't safe for the daily steep descents I do. However, I
    soon noticed that the tire had moved over very near the left chainstay again. I readjusted the stop
    with a screwdriver, and tightened it down hard. Yesterday, while climbing, I noticed a sound and
    realized that the tire was rubbing against the stay again! I jumped off the bike and twice had to
    retighten the dropout. I kept an eye on it the rest of the ride and it seemed to me that the tire
    was getting dangerously close to the chainstay again but I made it home. That was with my weight on
    the bike. This morning, it looked like the tire is aligned correctly, and this is when I'm not on
    the bike. Can anyone shed some light on this vexing problem? Thanks!

    Dan

  2. Dan Musicant at [email hidden] wrote on 8/4/03 7:41 AM:

    Quoted message said:

    Never had a problem with this bike before, a Miyata 12 speed I bought used in like-new condition
    about 3 years ago. It's a basic road-commuter bike, nothing fancy, but it has a decent
    triple-butted frame and I've taken to daily 12 milers up in the hills (about 1000 foot elevation).

    I had a blowout on the back and changed the back tire about 3 weeks ago and got a flat a couple
    days ago from a staple but I noticed that the left-most wall of that new tire was being abraided
    to the point where the nylon belting could be seen in places. Looking, I conclude that this could
    only be caused by the tire rubbing against the left chainstay. I looked and saw an adjustment
    mechanism on the left side where the dropout seats at the chainstay and I adjusted this with a
    screwdriver so that the wheel would "want" to seat so that it's properly aligned. Things seemed
    fine and I put on a new tire, thinking that the abraided tire wasn't safe for the daily steep
    descents I do. However, I soon noticed that the tire had moved over very near the left chainstay
    again. I readjusted the stop with a screwdriver, and tightened it down hard. Yesterday, while
    climbing, I noticed a sound and realized that the tire was rubbing against the stay again! I
    jumped off the bike and twice had to retighten the dropout.

    I assume you mean tighten the quick-release; the dropout is where the axle seats on the frame. Just
    to say the obvious - quick releases are camming mechanisms, not screw mechanisms.

    Quoted message said:

    I kept an eye on it the rest of the ride and it seemed to me that the tire was getting dangerously
    close to the chainstay again but I made it home. That was with my weight on the bike. This
    morning, it looked like the tire is aligned correctly, and this is when I'm not on the bike. Can
    anyone shed some light on this vexing problem? Thanks!

    Also assuming you have dropouts which are horizontal (or nearly so), and you were turning the
    adjustment screw on the dropout, so you could pull the axle back against a solid reference point

    You might check the hub cones for proper tightness, and also the axle for possible bending or
    breaking. If you are properly closing the rear quick-release, it shouldn't be moving in the
    dropouts. Of course, if there was excessive layers of slippery paint on the dropouts, it might slide
    forward under pedaling pressure, if it can't get a decent "bite".

    Hope that helps,

    -- Jim

  3. could be a broken axel, and the skewer is holding it together. some times the quick release is not
    tight enough. the adjustment of the bearing cones is loose. things like that. greg

  4. Dan Musicant said:

    Looking, I conclude that this could only be caused by the tire rubbing against the left chainstay.
    I looked and saw an adjustment mechanism on the left side where the dropout seats at the chainstay
    and I adjusted this with a screwdriver so that the wheel would "want" to seat so that it's
    properly aligned.

    Sounds like you're not getting the quick release adjusted tight enough.

    See: draco.acs.uci.edu8a.2.html

    Art Harris

  5. "Art Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Dan Musicant said:

    Looking, I conclude that this could only be caused by the tire rubbing against the left
    chainstay. I looked and saw an adjustment mechanism on the left side where the dropout seats at
    the chainstay and I adjusted this with a screwdriver so that the wheel would "want" to seat so
    that it's properly aligned.

    Sounds like you're not getting the quick release adjusted tight enough.

    See: draco.acs.uci.edu8a.2.html

    Don't know if it's been mentioned, but if the axle isn't perfectly centered, too much might be
    sticking out from the locknuts, making the QR not able to clamp the dropout.

  6. On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:35:53 GMT, Jim Edgar <[email hidden]> wrote:

    😄an Musicant at [email hidden] wrote on 8/4/03 7:41 AM:
    :
    :> Never had a problem with this bike before, a Miyata 12 speed I bought used in like-new condition
    :> about 3 years ago. It's a basic road-commuter bike, nothing fancy, but it has a decent
    :> triple-butted frame and I've taken to daily 12 milers up in the hills (about 1000 foot
    :> elevation).
    :>
    :> I had a blowout on the back and changed the back tire about 3 weeks ago and got a flat a couple
    :> days ago from a staple but I noticed that the left-most wall of that new tire was being abraided
    :> to the point where the nylon belting could be seen in places. Looking, I conclude that this could
    :> only be caused by the tire rubbing against the left chainstay. I looked and saw an adjustment
    :> mechanism on the left side where the dropout seats at the chainstay and I adjusted this with a
    :> screwdriver so that the wheel would "want" to seat so that it's properly aligned. Things seemed
    :> fine and I put on a new tire, thinking that the abraided tire wasn't safe for the daily steep
    :> descents I do. However, I soon noticed that the tire had moved over very near the left chainstay
    :> again. I readjusted the stop with a screwdriver, and tightened it down hard. Yesterday, while
    :> climbing, I noticed a sound and realized that the tire was rubbing against the stay again! I
    :> jumped off the bike and twice had to retighten the dropout.
    :
    :I assume you mean tighten the quick-release; the dropout is where the axle :seats on the frame.
    Just to say the obvious - quick releases are camming :mechanisms, not screw mechanisms.\

    Yes, I meant tighten the quick-release. The term "quick-release" was eluding me.
    :
    :> I kept an eye on it the rest of the ride and it seemed to me that the tire was getting
    :> dangerously close to the chainstay again but I made it home. That was with my weight on the bike.
    :> This morning, it looked like the tire is aligned correctly, and this is when I'm not on the bike.
    :> Can anyone shed some light on this vexing problem? Thanks!
    :
    :
    :Also assuming you have dropouts which are horizontal (or nearly so), and you :were turning the
    adjustment screw on the dropout, so you could pull the axle :back against a solid reference point

    I was turning a screw (machine screw) that had purchase on the other side by a nut-like piece and
    this assembly seemed to function as a stop for the axel (and there's a like one on the other side,
    I believe) so that the wheel will have solid support on both sides when it's centered. Why it
    suddenly needed adjustment, I don't know, but a clue may be the fact that there's evidently
    something wrong with the wheel. It doesn't spin freely. A tooth is broken on the freewheel and I
    just bought another freewheel (7 sprocket, whereas my current one is 6, but the guy at the store
    said it would work and make my 12 speed a 14 speed, although the high and low sprockets are still
    14 and 28 tooth), and I will disassemble the wheel hub and inspect the bearings and repack,
    readjust or replace, etc. as required.
    :
    :You might check the hub cones for proper tightness, and also the axle for :possible bending or
    breaking. If you are properly closing the rear :quick-release, it shouldn't be moving in the
    dropouts. Of course, if there :was excessive layers of slippery paint on the dropouts, it might
    slide :forward under pedaling pressure, if it can't get a decent "bite".
    :
    :Hope that helps,
    :
    :-- Jim

    Thanks. Yes, the cones I will inspect and readjust or replace as required. I've never touched any of
    the bearings on this bike, which was lightly used until about 3 months ago and now I'm using it
    quite a lot.

    Dan

  7. On 05 Aug 2003 05:49:33 GMT, [email hidden] (NEPTUNIUM) wrote:

    :could be a broken axel, and the skewer is holding it together. some times the :quick release is not
    tight enough. the adjustment of the bearing cones is :loose. things like that. :greg

    Yeah, there's something screwy about the wheel. I'm going to look at the axel, cones/bearings
    shortly. Thanks.

    Dan

  8. On 5 Aug 2003 04:33:44 -0700, [email hidden] (Art Harris) wrote:

    😄an Musicant wrote:
    :
    :> Looking, I conclude that this could only be caused by the tire rubbing against the left
    :> chainstay. I looked and saw an adjustment mechanism on the left side where the dropout seats at
    :> the chainstay and I adjusted this with a screwdriver so that the wheel would "want" to seat so
    :> that it's properly aligned.
    :
    :Sounds like you're not getting the quick release adjusted tight enough.
    :
    :See: :draco.acs.uci.edu8a.2.html
    :
    :Art Harris

  9. On 5 Aug 2003 04:33:44 -0700, [email hidden] (Art Harris) wrote:

    😄an Musicant wrote:
    :
    :> Looking, I conclude that this could only be caused by the tire rubbing against the left
    :> chainstay. I looked and saw an adjustment mechanism on the left side where the dropout seats at
    :> the chainstay and I adjusted this with a screwdriver so that the wheel would "want" to seat so
    :> that it's properly aligned.
    :
    :Sounds like you're not getting the quick release adjusted tight enough.
    :
    :See: :draco.acs.uci.edu8a.2.html
    :
    :Art Harris

    No, I got it real tight but it doesn't seem to be stopping it from migrating. New one to me, but the
    wheel isn't turning freely so something's up. Will disassemble and inspect.

  10. "Dan Musicant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Never had a problem with this bike before, a Miyata 12 speed I bought used in like-new condition
    about 3 years ago. It's a basic road-commuter bike, nothing fancy, but it has a decent
    triple-butted frame and I've taken to daily 12 milers up in the hills (about 1000 foot elevation).

    I had a blowout on the back and changed the back tire about 3 weeks ago and got a flat a couple
    days ago from a staple but I noticed that the left-most wall of that new tire was being abraided
    to the point where the nylon belting could be seen in places. Looking, I conclude that this could
    only be caused by the tire rubbing against the left chainstay. I looked and saw an adjustment
    mechanism on the left side where the dropout seats at the chainstay and I adjusted this with a
    screwdriver so that the wheel would "want" to seat so that it's properly aligned. Things seemed
    fine and I put on a new tire, thinking that the abraided tire wasn't safe for the daily steep
    descents I do. However, I soon noticed that the tire had moved over very near the left chainstay
    again. I readjusted the stop with a screwdriver, and tightened it down hard. Yesterday, while
    climbing, I noticed a sound and realized that the tire was rubbing against the stay again! I
    jumped off the bike and twice had to retighten the dropout. I kept an eye on it the rest of the
    ride and it seemed to me that the tire was getting dangerously close to the chainstay again but I
    made it home. That was with my weight on the bike. This morning, it looked like the tire is
    aligned correctly, and this is when I'm not on the bike. Can anyone shed some light on this vexing
    problem? Thanks!

    Dan

    Remove the wheel and check for a broken axle. While it's out, remove the skewer and
    lubricate the cam.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  11. In article said:

    Remove the wheel and check for a broken axle. While it's out, remove the skewer and
    lubricate the cam.

    Some years ago I had a wheel that wouldn't stay straight in the frame (with horizontal dropouts)
    until I put a drop of oil on the cam mechanism. Without the oil, increasing friction as the cam
    tightened kept it from completely closing. The solution to the problem was found by searching the
    archives of this newsgroup--a great resource, since on my own I would never have thought of the cam
    as the cause of the problem. Two people also sent me drawings of special washers they had designed
    to clip the axle to the back of the dropout--both a "mechanical drawing" with views from 3 sides, as
    well as a 3-D rendering!

    --
    Ned Mantei Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology CH-8093 Zurich,
    Switzerland

  12. Dan Musicant may have said:

    A tooth is broken on the freewheel and I just bought another freewheel (7 sprocket, whereas my
    current one is 6, but the guy at the store said it would work and make my 12 speed a 14 speed,
    although the high and low sprockets are still 14 and 28 tooth),

    Unless your shifter has 7 positions or you're using a friction shifter, you're unlikely to be able
    to use all 7 without some additional work.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks. Yes, the cones I will inspect and readjust or replace as required. I've never touched any
    of the bearings on this bike, which was lightly used until about 3 months ago and now I'm using it
    quite a lot.

    Bearing failure is unlikely to allow the axle to move. If you had to suddenly take up slack that
    hadn't been there before on the QR, that's a big sign of a broken axle. This is a much more common
    problem with the old freewheel-style rears than with the newer casette-style hubs.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

  13. I went though this a few months ago. It ended up being a snapped axle and the QR was holding
    it together.

    Fire up MTB 03

  14. On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:55:26 GMT, Werehatrack <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 22:44:01 GMT, Dan Musicant
    :<[email hidden]> may have said:
    :
    :> A tooth is broken on the freewheel and I just bought another freewheel (7 sprocket, whereas my
    :> current one is 6, but the guy at the store said it would work and make my 12 speed a 14 speed,
    :> although the high and low sprockets are still 14 and 28 tooth),
    :
    :Unless your shifter has 7 positions or you're using a friction :shifter, you're unlikely to be able
    to use all 7 without some :additional work.

    I realized that last night. The shifters are on the downtube and both are indexed and I'm too
    attached to the indexing to use the non-indexed option. Therefore I'll have to return that 7
    sprocket freewheel and buy the 6 sprocket one I found at another store. I'm wondering if I should
    buy two because a guy I talked to last night told me that they are getting pretty rare.

    :
    :>Thanks. Yes, the cones I will inspect and readjust or replace as required. I've never touched any
    :>of the bearings on this bike, which was lightly used until about 3 months ago and now I'm using it
    :>quite a lot.
    :
    :Bearing failure is unlikely to allow the axle to move. If you had to :suddenly take up slack that
    hadn't been there before on the QR, that's :a big sign of a broken axle. This is a much more common
    problem with :the old freewheel-style rears than with the newer casette-style hubs.

    I'm going to disassemble that wheel in a day or two, maybe today and will hopefully find out
    what's wrong.

  15. On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:55:26 GMT, Werehatrack <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 22:44:01 GMT, Dan Musicant
    :<[email hidden]> may have said:
    :
    :> A tooth is broken on the freewheel and I just bought another freewheel (7 sprocket, whereas my
    :> current one is 6, but the guy at the store said it would work and make my 12 speed a 14 speed,
    :> although the high and low sprockets are still 14 and 28 tooth),
    :
    :Unless your shifter has 7 positions or you're using a friction :shifter, you're unlikely to be able
    to use all 7 without some :additional work.
    :

    Actually, I have a used bike wheel someone left at my house with a 6 sprocket freewheel on it. I
    looked at it yesterday and counted the teeth and saw it had highest and lowest sprokets with 14 and
    30 teeth and decided it wasn't a match (my current is 14 and 28 teeth), but thinking now I wonder if
    I can use it. Why not? It will just give me a lower lowest gear than my present one, right? It's
    dirty but it doesn't look worn. I will be putting a new chain on in any case.

  16. I got down and dirty yesterday and found out where the woozle went. The wheel didn't have a broken
    axel. The bearings were pretty bad. I didn't look at the balls themselves, but the cones were badly
    worn. I have two freewheel removal tools but neither would remove the current freewheel with the
    broken tooth.

    I had a used wheel with a 6 sprocket freewheel that looked almost new (Suntour), but with 30 teeth
    on the largest sprocket instead of the 28 on the current freewheel. I could and did remove that
    freewheel and cleaned it up with paint thinner and lubricated it with 3 in 1 Oil, and reattached it
    to the rim, which was a Raleigh with sealed bearings. The bearings were quite stiff and I removed
    them. There was water in there but the bearings looked good the the cones were in pretty good shape,
    so I repacked with waterproof bearing grease and adjusted them as precisely as I could. Exchanged
    the tire/tube on the old wheel to the new one, put on a new chain and adjusted the rear derailer and
    lubed the chain and I was good to go and I did.

    One odd thing, though. When I pumped up the tube, water drops came out of the rim, where the joint
    is. Don't know what this could mean.

    Debating what to do with the old wheel. I could get another freewheel and new bearings/cones for it
    and keep it as a spare.

    Dan

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