'Backwards' bikes

Peter Scandrett said:

Hi

Just a random thought, really. I've never tried riding one, but
those
backwards bikes you get as attractions at fairs/in places like
Covent
Garden - why are they so (apparently) difficult to ride? Is it
simply
that it's ingrained in everyone that to go right you turn the
handlbars/steering wheel right and the same with the left - and when
presented with everything swapped, your muscle memory and intuition
is
thrown out of the window? I suppose it's like trying to learn to
ride
a bike all over again...?

I would imagine it's like writing with your "other" hand.

--

Geoff

Peter Scandrett said:

Hi

Just a random thought, really. I've never tried riding one, but those
backwards bikes you get as attractions at fairs/in places like Covent
Garden - why are they so (apparently) difficult to ride? Is it simply
that it's ingrained in everyone that to go right you turn the
handlbars/steering wheel right and the same with the left - and when
presented with everything swapped, your muscle memory and intuition is
thrown out of the window? I suppose it's like trying to learn to ride a
bike all over again...?

Can anyone here actually ride a backwards bike to any degree, or has
anyone had a go? What's it like?

I've ridden a bike where you have to pedal backwards to go forward. It
wasn't particularly difficult to ride.

When I was a nipper in the early 60's, we used to ride our bikes
backwards by virtually sitting on the handlebars and pedalling
backwards. I should imagine the backwrads bike you are thinking of is
the one where the steering movements are mirrored/reversed. Natural
reactions just go out of the window.

Peter Scandrett said:

Can anyone here actually ride a backwards bike to any degree, or has
anyone had a go? What's it like?

Some people can. I saw one at a fair and the person running the stand
was riding it around to show how easy it was then inviting others to
have a go!

I think this would be a great way to get one up on any opportunistic
bike thief - in a similar way to having a fixed wheel bike.

peter

"Peter Scandrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone here actually ride a backwards bike to any degree, or has
anyone had a go? What's it like?

Had a shot in Edinburgh once during the festival. Psyched myself up, left
hand means go right, left hand goes right etc, etc. Came off at the first
attempt. What really threw me was turning the handlebar the correct
direction but then 'leaning in' from the wrong side. This really upset the
balance of the bike and from then on in, basic instinct kicks in and you
panic!

--
!Speedy Gonzales!

Remove the SPAMTRAP to reply

GeoffC said:

I would imagine it's like writing with your "other" hand.

I've heard that riding with your hands crossed can help.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"The plural of anecdote is not data" - Frank Kotsonis

"Peter Scandrett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

Just a random thought, really. I've never tried riding one, but those
backwards bikes you get as attractions at fairs/in places like Covent
Garden - why are they so (apparently) difficult to ride?

http://ekib.xntrick.co.uk/

pOB

Danny Colyer said:

GeoffC said:

I would imagine it's like writing with your "other" hand.

I've heard that riding with your hands crossed can help.

I've tried one at a festival (ride it 10 feet without putting your foot
down, win a tenner). Thought I was being clever by crossing my arms - it
didn't help at all!

Colin

Peter Scandrett said:

Is it simply
that it's ingrained in everyone that to go right you turn the
handlbars/steering wheel right and the same with the left -

It's counterintuitive, but as soon as you're travelling at any speed at
all, to go right, you turn the handlebars left ...

Mark Annand writtificated

Quoted message said:

Peter Scandrett said:

Is it simply
that it's ingrained in everyone that to go right you turn the
handlbars/steering wheel right and the same with the left -

It's counterintuitive, but as soon as you're travelling at any speed at
all, to go right, you turn the handlebars left ...

<Pedant> Is the wrong answer :-P </pedant>

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of gravity.
Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only by counter
steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

To demonstrate it, I'd need someone to wreck their headset (or frame if
they've an integrated headset) by overtightening it to a crazy degree, or
(preferably) weld the thing together. I would then be able to fall off the
bike to a side of my choosing.

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T
pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid
says...

Quoted message said:

Mark Annand writtificated

Quoted message said:

Peter Scandrett said:

Is it simply
that it's ingrained in everyone that to go right you turn the
handlbars/steering wheel right and the same with the left -

It's counterintuitive, but as soon as you're travelling at any speed at
all, to go right, you turn the handlebars left ...

<Pedant> Is the wrong answer :-P </pedant>

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of gravity.
Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only by counter
steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T
pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid
says...

Quoted message said:

Mark Annand writtificated

Quoted message said:

Peter Scandrett said:

Is it simply
that it's ingrained in everyone that to go right you turn the
handlbars/steering wheel right and the same with the left -

It's counterintuitive, but as soon as you're travelling at any speed at
all, to go right, you turn the handlebars left ...

<Pedant> Is the wrong answer :-P </pedant>

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of gravity.
Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only by counter
steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of gravity.
Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only by counter
steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

I could just lean over... one can steer a bike while riding no-handed,
after all, and quite how one is supposed to "counter steer" a unicycle
is a bit of a poser, but they /do/ go around bends.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of gravity.
Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only by counter
steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

I could just lean over... one can steer a bike while riding no-handed,
after all, and quite how one is supposed to "counter steer" a unicycle
is a bit of a poser, but they /do/ go around bends.

Pete.

This is old ground I know, but if it were true that you could just lean
over to initiate the "fall" then you would also, on a swing , be able to
start from stationary without touching the ground.
I think.
No, I'm sure. But....
No. I think that's right. Someone should do the experiment.

Roger Thorpe

On Mar 4, 3:46 pm, Roger Thorpe <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This is old ground I know, but if it were true that you could just lean
over to initiate the "fall" then you would also, on a swing , be able to
start from stationary without touching the ground.
I think.

You can. Or at least, I can. It can be quite difficult working up
much movement, but by carefully adjusting your weight it is possible.

PhilD

--
<><

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of gravity.
Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only by counter
steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

I could just lean over...

By pushing against what?

Rob Morley writtificated

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of
gravity. Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only
by counter steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

The trick is to lean the bike first, then follow with the body.

Riding no handed (or even handed) is a bit different 'cos the bike will
automatically make small movements of the front wheel as you shift your
weight. AFAIK this is essential to ride any distance.

Given the problems of riding with the steering 'locked', to test it you'd
need a steep ramp/hill and someone elses bike with the headset wrecked or
steering welded in position. Get a push off down the ramp then half way
down someone shouts 'right' or 'left'. The rider then has to shift the
centre of gravity of bike+rider to that side i.e. fall off to the side
chosen.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of gravity.
> Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only by counter
> steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

Quoted message said:

I could just lean over...

By pushing against what?

I think we've been here before. Several times, in fact.

The correct answer is that it may be just about technically possible
to lean without countersteer, but it's difficult enough to do in a
controlled manner that it doesn't play a significant role in normal
cycling. Anyone who thinks they can simply lean from side to side at
will should try riding a bike with a locked headset - just overtighten
it and ride no-hands, it's a 2 minute job to try and you have nothing
to lose apart from your dignity and erroneous beliefs.

But that won't stop people arguing about it...

James

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T
pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid
says...

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley writtificated

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The counter steer is simply a means of shifting the centre of
gravity. Armchair theorists will say that this can be achieved only
by counter steering, but this is easily achieved without it.

So how do you propose to overcome Newton's third law?

The trick is to lean the bike first, then follow with the body.

Here's what happens in that situation if the steering isn't locked. Say
the bike leans to the left, rider to the right - the bike will steer
into the lean, leaving the rider behind, but in doing so it will soon
lean and steer to the right, thus catching up with the toppling rider
(assuming the bikes going fast enough to catch him before he's gone too
far). That's countersteering - steer the bike one way, either with the
bars or by shifting body mass and it will end up leaning/steering the
other way.

Quoted message said:

Riding no handed (or even handed) is a bit different 'cos the bike will
automatically make small movements of the front wheel as you shift your
weight. AFAIK this is essential to ride any distance.

Given the problems of riding with the steering 'locked', to test it you'd
need a steep ramp/hill and someone elses bike with the headset wrecked or
steering welded in position.

No need, just reverse the stem and clamp it to the frame - a couple of
bits of 4x2 and a couple of G clamps should do it. Or use a short stem
and straight bars, strap one end of the bars to the top tube.

Quoted message said:

Get a push off down the ramp then half way
down someone shouts 'right' or 'left'. The rider then has to shift the
centre of gravity of bike+rider to that side i.e. fall off to the side
chosen.

Tell me when you're coming over and I'll sort out a bike and a hill.
:-)