Barend vs. STI

Quoted message said:

'm building a new touring bike from a 1984 Lugged steel trek frame. I I used to have a
Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands from the hoods
to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there an advantage one way
or the other?

For touring it seems that the greater reliability of the bar end wins out. But I've used them for 30
odd years so take that with a grain of salt. Phil Brown

Jonathan Kaplan said:

I'm building a new touring bike from a 1984 Lugged steel trek frame. I've converted the tires to
700c, had the rear spread to 135, Have purchased a 9 speed cogset, and have a Truvative 48/38/28
crankset on order.

I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands
from the hoods to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there an
advantage one way or the other? I've got a good price on either set of components. The STI seems to
be very heavy for its size (It's an Ultegra). Any advice/opinions would be appreciated.

Ultegra brifters are listed as 485 grams per pair. Bar ends plus brake levers will be 438 grams per
pair (260g levers, 178 g bar ends). Not a huge weight difference.

I've used brifters a few times and I can see the attraction. I've also seen an exploded diagram of a
Shimano brifter and it scares me. I grew up with downtube shifters, so moving my hands to shift is
very natural for me. I went to bar ends in the last couple of years and have found them very
convenient. I don't race, so instantaneous shifts are not crucial to me.

As a commuter/rec rider, I have never found myself limited by having to move my hands to shift. Then
again, I just accept that if I need to punch through a light I will just pedal faster if making a
shift would be dangerous, etc. All in all, I probably still only use 6 gear combinations for 97% of
my riding even though I have 16-27 available. Hmmmm.... on my 'ten speed' in high school, I also
used only 6 gear combinations.... this is progress? 🙂

There are many reports here of brifters lasting a long time, no trouble, etc. From all I hear, the
technology is very solid and developed. I would bet that they would hold up fine for touring. It's
up to you what kind of money and technology for repairs you want to deal with.

Jonathan Kaplan said:

I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands
from the hoods to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there an
advantage one way or the other? I've got a good price on either set of components. The STI seems to
be very heavy for its size (It's an Ultegra). Any advice/opinions would be appreciated.

It depends where you keep your hands when you ride. If you ride the tops with your palms down, than
going over for the STI vs the barend is about the same. I rode on the drops and liked working the
barend with my pinkies and palms.

The barend is a less complicated mechinism and will shift chainrings a lot cleaner than STI.

Unless you need to shift while standing on your touring bicycle, I'd vote for barends.

For touring I would recommend bar-ends.

STI and Ergo are wonderful, I ride an Ergo-briftered bike a lot. But simplicity, ease of repair, and
adaptability are great blessings away from home, and indexed shifting is less adaptable.

The key strength for me is that Shimano bar-ends switch between indexed and friction shifting. My
old Trek has rolled along on 7, 8 and 9 speed wheels, both Shimano and Campy-hubbed.

Imagine your wheel gets crushed by some poorly aimed automobile in a parking lot in a tiny town. A
friendly local offers you a 6-speed 20 year-old wheel.

With brifters, I would emit a disappointed, "No, thanks." Or take it and hope I would have a 2 or 3
cog usable range.

With bar-ends, I would say, "Really! You are too generous! This will work great!" I would offer $25.
Maybe the samaritan would take it, maybe not. Regardless, I would be riding again within minutes.

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ALudneZsLsx680eiRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands
from the hoods to shift...Is there an advantage

one way or the other?

Quoted message said:

I've got a good price on either set of components.

Paul Kopit <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Unless you need to shift while standing on your touring bicycle, I'd vote for barends.

yep. that nails it tho i'd s/need/like/.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

jonathon-<< I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move
my hands from the hoods to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there
an advantage one way or the other?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Three things I see- -The crank will probably shift better with friction barends -if you want to
carry some sort of bag, the STI housing may interfere -if you touring w/o LBS around, the friction
backup of barends are a nice safety net.

If ya are gonna tour, I think barends are the way to go.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Jonathan Kaplan said:

I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands
from the hoods to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there an

Not everyone ,-)

The bar end shifters will deal smoothly with any front chainrings, the friction setting for the rear
will deal e.g. with a bent derailleur hanger. Might be a consideration, personal preference is
another (e.g. I don't like my brake levers to move sideways)...

--
MfG/Best regards helmut springer

Jonathan Kaplan said:

Any advice/opinions would be appreciated.

For touring I would recommend low tech, i.e. reliability and go for downtube levers with an option
to switch to friction mode. Shorter cables, easier to obtain and replace whilst on tour.

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

... The STI seems to be very heavy for its size (It's an Ultegra). Any advice/opinions would be
appreciated. >

You may want to try the ERGO set up. The Record is the lightest brifters yet.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jonathan Kaplan
I'm building a new touring bike from a 1984 Lugged steel trek frame. I've converted the tires to
700c, had the rear spread to 135, Have purchased a 9 speed cogset, and have a Truvative 48/38/28
crankset on order.

I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands
from the hoods to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there an
advantage one way or the other? I've got a good price on either set of components. The STI seems to
be very heavy for its size (It's an Ultegra). Any advice/opinions would be appreciated.

Bar-ends give you options that Brifters don't:
Friction shifting or index shifting
Your choice of brake levers to more closely meet your ergonomic goals and the brake mechanisms you specifically choose. (Dia-Compe makes 287V levers to mate with V-Brakes as one example)

Lower cost replacement/sparing is also a benefit.

You get a visual indication of what gear you are in by looking at the lever position. I use them on our tandems and single touring bicyclesprtly because I can't see the rear chain position.
I use STI on by group ride bicycle because there are times when speedy shifting helps me respond better to group dynamics.

In article <[email hidden]>,

daveornee said:

Jonathan Kaplan wrote:

Quoted message said:

You get a visual indication of what gear you are in by looking at the lever position. I use them
on our tandems and single touring bicyclesprtly because I can't see the rear chain position. I use
STI on by group ride bicycle because there are times when speedy shifting helps me respond better
to group dynamics.

You need one of these:

cgi.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗ 140

Dura-Ace gear indicator. It's a little cable housing insert that lets STI users have a visual gear
position indication, even better than what you get with DT or barcon shifting.

I don't know if they even make the "manual" version, anymore, since this is superseded (however
lamely) by the integrated gearing function on the Shimano Flight Deck computer and compatible
shifters (which is pretty much all recent STI; even my Sora brifteur has the contacts for a Flight
Deck connection).

Not even very expensive,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

In article <[email hidden]>, Jonathan Kaplan

Quoted message said:

I'm building a new touring bike from a 1984 Lugged steel trek frame. I've converted the tires to
700c, had the rear spread to 135, Have purchased a 9 speed cogset, and have a Truvative 48/38/28
crankset on order.

I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands
from the hoods to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there an
advantage one way or the other? I've got a good price on either set of components. The STI seems
to be very heavy for its size (It's an Ultegra). Any advice/opinions would be appreciated.

I think the advice is pretty simple. Go with what you think is best and that you can afford. There
is nothing wrong with STI in general, as long as you understand that things when used do wear out.

As for shifter weight, do you really have to care that much? After all, it is a touring bike you are
building aren't you, so weight isn't much of a concern right? Whether you're saving a few ounces
here and there isn't going to make your cycling speed any faster I think.

Shifting preference between STI and bar ends. I personally have the opportunity to use all 3 --
Shimano STI, Campy Ergo and Dura-Ace bar ends. They all feel great, except my Shimano STIs kicked
the bucket in this year's 5 western US states and my trip to the Queen Charlotte Islands in Canada,
all self-supported. I had since replaced both dead levers with a Campy Ergo and bar ends simply
because, I was out of work and had very little money to buy a new set of STIs. And the Ergo was the
cheap plastic Mirage and not the Record. But then, I was told that the Record was a Mirage with
carbon weaving in disguise?? The Mirage was needed so I can index my Altus 42-32-22 properly with my
front RSX derailleur. It actually works A LOT BETTER than my old RSX. No chain rubbing on the
derailleur cage as the infinite trimming really helps me use all gear combo.

Talking about gear combo, I discovered this by accident when switching my dead rear STI to a 8/9
speed index Dura-Ace bar end. The bar end allowed me to shift my old 8 speed cog perfect, eventhough
it was rated for 8 and 9. Not only that, when I bought a replacement Deore 9 speed cassette to try
and see if I can index it okay with my current chain. Guess what? It works perfectly!! Best yet, it
requires no switching on the lever side! It just shifts as though it had an 8 plus 1 extra now. I
did have to adjust my rear derailleur to compensate for the extra gear, but my Deore 9 long cage
works great with the bar end. This will allow me to index all 8 and 9 speed cassettes if I ever have
to replace them on tour. I don't think I could ever do that with a pure 8 or 9 speed only STI
shifter and neither can I with Campy.

Hope this helps.

Quoted message said:

You get a visual indication of what gear you are in by looking at the lever position. I use them
on our tandems and single touring>

Even better than visual indication is the tactile feedback on the barend shifter position--after a
few months, I developed the ability to tell fairly reliably what gear I was in on the front & rear
just by feeling the barend shifter with my palm, without taking my eyes off the road.

I still use barend shifters on my commuter bike, for the reasons stated by others above, and STI on
my "fun" bike.

MSeries said:

For touring I would recommend low tech, i.e. reliability and go for downtube levers with an option
to switch to friction mode. Shorter cables, easier to obtain and replace whilst on tour.

How about using STIs/Ergos* but carrying spare downtube levers for emergencies?

There would be no problem fitting if the frame's down tube was suitable and spare cables or cable
cutters were carried. Weight of spare levers would be insignificant (especially if plastic!).

* So much quicker and more comfortable than DT levers, I find.

~PB

Jonathan Kaplan said:

I'm building a new touring bike from a 1984 Lugged steel trek frame. I've converted the tires to
700c, had the rear spread to 135, Have purchased a 9 speed cogset, and have a Truvative 48/38/28
crankset on order.

I used to have a Cannondale touring bike with Bar Ends, and never minded having to move my hands
from the hoods to shift. Everyone seems to rave over the STI brake/shifter combo. Is there an
advantage one way or the other? I've got a good price on either set of components. The STI seems
to be very heavy for its size (It's an Ultegra). Any advice/opinions would be appreciated.

Disclaimer: I have bar-end shifters on my touring bike.

The advantages are lower weight, less complexity and if they something does go wrong, which is
unlikely, you can switch to friction mode. They're cheaper to buy in the first place and less
vulnerable in a crash.

I ride on the tops a lot, so STI would require a change of hand position just as the bar-end
shifters do - so convenience isn't an issue for me personally. Either type allows you to make
simultaneous front and rear shifts.

They take a little getting used to: the technique is to hold the shift lever and the end of the bar
and squeeze. If you just pull on the lever you end up diving for the hedge. This takes a little bit
of getting used to.

Quoted message said:

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

... The STI seems to be very heavy for its size (It's an Ultegra). Any advice/opinions would be
appreciated. >

Richard Chan said:

You may want to try the ERGO set up. The Record is the lightest brifters yet.

Yes, roughly the same weight as the 'other' composite shifters (Record 324g, Xenon 357g,
Ultegra 485g)

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

MSeries said:

For touring I would recommend low tech, i.e. reliability and go for downtube levers with an option
to switch to friction mode. Shorter cables, easier to obtain and replace whilst on tour.

Rather than that, use the bar-end thingies (technical term) Rivendell sell to accommodate DT
shifters. Then you have bar-end shifters, but if for some unknown reason you want to convert to DT
(perhaps only short cables available?) you can do so.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

MSeries said:

For touring I would recommend low tech, i.e. reliability and go for downtube levers with an
option to switch to friction mode. Shorter cables, easier to obtain and replace whilst on tour.

Rather than that, use the bar-end thingies (technical term) Rivendell sell to accommodate DT
shifters. Then you have bar-end shifters, but if for some unknown reason you want to convert to DT
(perhaps only short cables available?) you can do so.

Bar-end shifter mounts: rivendellbicycles.com17068.htmlOpen ↗

BTW: if you have that situation come up (broken cable, only spare is too short), it's possible to
remove a Shimano bar-end shifter unit and bolt it to a downtube boss... I think. I've never actually
done it (none of my bikes have downtube bosses, for one), but the plate and indexing mechanism
appear to be indentical between bar-ends and downtube shifters.

Jeff

Quoted message said:

BTW: if you have that situation come up (broken cable, only spare is too short), it's possible to
remove a Shimano bar-end shifter unit and bolt it to a downtube boss... I think. I've never
actually done it (none of my bikes have downtube bosses, for one), but the plate and indexing
mechanism appear to be indentical between bar-ends and downtube shifters.

Jeff

All you'll need is a radiused version of the washer that goes between the barcon and the mount. Same
same otherwise...

I got to thinking about this again just now. There doesn't seem to be as much a problem getting
things (at least in the US) anymore. You can call Excel and have something overnighted to where ever
you are. You may lose a part of a day or so, but with a 5mm wrench and a little knowhow, you can
change out an STI lever with ease.

Its the same argument I used to make for not running Campy... Used to be that you couldn't get Campy
just anywhere... With the explosion of the internet, well, that issue's about gone...

My $.02. (valid only in the US!)

Mike