Basic navigational skills badly missing

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 21:36:33 -0000
in <news:[email hidden]>
Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

One key difference between compass and GPS navigation is that whereas you
*have* to take the map with you in order to navigate by compass,

I slightly disagree. Map memory (as opposed to Memory Map).

--
Practice makes perfect.....
But nobody's perfect......
so why practice?

Bootlaces said:

Quoted message said:

One key difference between compass and GPS navigation is that
whereas you *have* to take the map with you in order to navigate by
compass,

I slightly disagree. Map memory (as opposed to Memory Map).

Okay, fair enough, if you want to be pedantic. You could just write out a
list of distances and bearings. But generally speaking, most people do
their compass navigation with the aid of a map.

Paul

"theo" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Constructive Learning Instructor of Navigational CHallenges

--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net

Paul Saunders said:

SteveO said:

Quoted message said:

I think there's a bit more to GPS than "just spend the £80 or
whatever". There is the minor matter of knowing how to set it up and
how to use it.

Definitely and, tbh, I'd think you couldn't do it without the
map/compass knowledge.

Come on Steve, it's been pointed out enough times in the past, it's not Map
& Compass vs. GPS, it's just Compass vs. GPS. A map is essential in both
cases.

Soz Paul, I was drifting; thinking about the progression from one to
the other, rather than considering in a one-or-the-other scenario

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I might be wrong on that, mind you because everyone I know that has a
GPS, uses it and came to it bringing map and compass skills - doesn't
mean that someone hasn't/can't get there without the background,
dunno???

Of course they have to bring map skills to it, but I see no reason why
compass skills are necessary.

My drift? Working with M&C gives you the conecpts of navigation, grid
refs, etc.. If you don't know about grid refs you're stuck ;-)

Paul Saunders said:

SteveO said:

Quoted message said:

I think there's a bit more to GPS than "just spend the £80 or
whatever". There is the minor matter of knowing how to set it up and
how to use it.

Definitely and, tbh, I'd think you couldn't do it without the
map/compass knowledge.

Come on Steve, it's been pointed out enough times in the past, it's not Map
& Compass vs. GPS, it's just Compass vs. GPS. A map is essential in both
cases.

Soz Paul, I was drifting; thinking about the progression from one to
the other, rather than considering in a one-or-the-other scenario

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I might be wrong on that, mind you because everyone I know that has a
GPS, uses it and came to it bringing map and compass skills - doesn't
mean that someone hasn't/can't get there without the background,
dunno???

Of course they have to bring map skills to it, but I see no reason why
compass skills are necessary.

My drift? Working with M&C gives you the conecpts of navigation, grid
refs, etc.. If you don't know about grid refs you're stuck ;-)

SteveO said:

My drift? Working with M&C gives you the conecpts of navigation, grid
refs, etc.. If you don't know about grid refs you're stuck ;-)

But they're nothing to do with a compass. Orienteering maps don't
use grids, for example, but orineteers do use compasses.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

SteveO said:

My drift? Working with M&C gives you the conecpts of navigation, grid
refs, etc.. If you don't know about grid refs you're stuck ;-)

But they're nothing to do with a compass. Orienteering maps don't
use grids, for example, but orineteers do use compasses.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Judith said:

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 20:08:42 +0000, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

How dare you anthropomorphise this thread, you

<snip>

Oi, Rooney.

Good job I can't find any reference to my good self in that rant of
yours, or I'd come and let your tyres down.

Judith

I wouldn't dream of referring to you! I was referring to some other
cake-baker, naturally!
--

Paul Rooney

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

"theo" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Constructive Learning Instructor of Navigational CHallenges

<G>

--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:32:20 +0000, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oi, Rooney.

Good job I can't find any reference to my good self in that rant of
yours, or I'd come and let your tyres down.

Judith

I wouldn't dream of referring to you! I was referring to some other
cake-baker, naturally!

Well that's OK then!

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't dream of referring to you! I was referring to some other
cake-baker, naturally!

Come now Rooney - you can't wriggle out of it that easily.

Don't be coy Judith - you are /the/ cake baker par excellence :-)

One of those in your pack will stop you breaking into a trot !
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

W. D. Grey said:

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't dream of referring to you! I was referring to some other
cake-baker, naturally!

Come now Rooney - you can't wriggle out of it that easily.

Don't be coy Judith - you are /the/ cake baker par excellence :-)

One of those in your pack will stop you breaking into a trot !

I think you are missing the point, Bill.

Paul knows *exactly* what I meant.

Judith

In article <[email hidden]>, Judith
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I think you are missing the point, Bill.

Paul knows *exactly* what I meant.

Possibly - that's what happens when you come half way through the
picture :-)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 22:12:42 -0000
in <news:[email hidden]>
Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

Bootlaces said:

Quoted message said:

One key difference between compass and GPS navigation is that
whereas you *have* to take the map with you in order to navigate by
compass,

I slightly disagree. Map memory (as opposed to Memory Map).

Okay, fair enough, if you want to be pedantic.

Isn't that what this NG is about? <g>

--
We kitted up. Small stones fell around us. A striking route, indeed...
[G J F Dutton]

Peter Clinch said:

SteveO said:

My drift? Working with M&C gives you the conecpts of navigation, grid
refs, etc.. If you don't know about grid refs you're stuck ;-)

But they're nothing to do with a compass.

Yeah, I've can't figure out where I was coming from on that one
either; maybe part-thinking about absolute beginners + the compass
being used to locate six-figure locations, and such. Dunno now ;-)
might have been something entirely different 8-}

Quoted message said:

Orienteering maps don't use grids, for example, but orineteers do use
compasses.

Didn't know that. How do they get on with that then? You're at a
control point (??) and you're given a bearing to the next one but no
grid 'cos that would be too easy?

SteveO said:

Didn't know that. How do they get on with that then? You're at a
control point (??) and you're given a bearing to the next one but no
grid 'cos that would be too easy?

You have North lines to line up a compass on. No need for E/W
lines, so you don't get them.
Note that the lines are magnetic North so you don't need to correct
for magnetic drift... assuming tha map is up to date, of course!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Paul Saunders wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Over 6 years, neither of mine have ever gone wrong. Maybe you were just
unlucky.

Quoted message said:

I almost certainly have been.

Quoted message said:

But the fact remains that a GPS receiver cannot be trusted to
anything like the same degree as, say, a wristwatch.

On general principles, speaking as someone who usually tries to fix
(and sometimes succeeds) every electroinc device which fails,
including watches, mobile phones, calculators, GPSs, and takes an
educated interested in their technology, I'd expect the same level of
reliability out of a hiking-hardened GPS as a watch. My experience of
the two GPSs I currently have, one of which has been used more than
once a week for three years, is not inconsistent with that hypothesis.

I'm excluding running out of battery juice, since that's so easily
avoided and is just carelessness.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

On general principles, speaking as someone who usually tries to fix
(and sometimes succeeds) every electroinc device which fails,
including watches, mobile phones, calculators, GPSs, and takes an
educated interested in their technology, I'd expect the same level of
reliability out of a hiking-hardened GPS as a watch.

There's more stuff in a GPS to go wrong. There's a reliance on external
signals with requirement for capturing those signals, there's more
information to display on a bigger screen, more and more elaborate
software, greater need for holes in the case, and it's bigger and in the
way of knocks more. There's a lot more of it doing a lot more things.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But the fact remains that a GPS receiver cannot be trusted to
anything like the same degree as, say, a wristwatch.

On general principles, speaking as someone who usually tries to fix
(and sometimes succeeds) every electroinc device which fails,
including watches, mobile phones, calculators, GPSs, and takes an
educated interested in their technology, I'd expect the same level of
reliability out of a hiking-hardened GPS as a watch. My experience of
the two GPSs I currently have, one of which has been used more than
once a week for three years, is not inconsistent with that hypothesis.

I'm excluding running out of battery juice, since that's so easily
avoided and is just carelessness.

I have owned four GPSRs.

The only one which failed was one I dropped on a chunk of Derbyshire
gritstone and the display failed, but it continued to record a
down-loadable track! I call that unreasonable use. :-)
--
Gordon Harris

Gordon said:

The only one which failed was one I dropped on a chunk of Derbyshire
gritstone and the display failed, but it continued to record a
down-loadable track! I call that unreasonable use. :-)

But my point is, if you'd dropped your watch on the same bit of
gritstone would it still have told you the time there and then? Rather
more likely, I think.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/