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BBC cycling farcility pics needed NOW

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UK and Europe
Published
10 March 2006
Last activity
13 March 2006
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wafflycat
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  1. See

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4789146.stm

    "In the gutter

    The new highway code advises cyclists to use bike lanes where provided. But
    cycling organisations say this will make travelling on two wheels more
    dangerous. How come?

    Shattered glass. Strewn rubbish. Parked cars. Deep drains. Jarring potholes.
    Lanes barely wider than a bike (sans rider). Lanes of a few metres. Or that
    switch from one side of the road to the other.

    Such is the state of many of the cycle routes that criss-cross our towns and
    countryside. Yet these are the very facilities intended to encourage people
    onto their bikes.

    And now the Driving Standards Agency, part of the Department for Transport,
    has released a draft highway code advising that cyclists should use bike
    lanes where provided.

    The CTC, the UK's national cyclists' organisation, has collected thousands
    of signatures in a campaign to try to get the new wording changed. They fear
    that this advice could actually put cyclists at risk; that drivers'
    insurance companies will try to avoid paying damages to cyclists injured
    after riding in the road rather than a nearby cycle path.

    But cyclists have told BBC Radio 4's PM that they have good reason to ride
    in the road, as bike lanes are often badly designed, even dangerous.

    "In Battersea there is a cycle path on the pavement which has a beautiful
    tree in the middle of it."
    "A cycle facility near me has five gates to negotiate in half a mile
    (involving slowing down, stopping, opening the gate, going through, shutting
    the gate, back on the bike etc)... or I could use the road."
    "Our cycle lanes offer poorer visibility than the road, run dangerously near
    lamp posts and road signs, and are not respected by pedestrians."
    "In 2003 I rode from John O'Groats to Lands End and attempted to use cycle
    lanes where possible. On too many occasions I found myself in situations
    which were potentially more dangerous than staying on the road, where
    cyclists have a legal right."

    Among the most controversial is on London's Blackfriars Bridge, which leaves
    riders exposed in the middle of the road, sandwiched between three lanes of
    traffic. Near-identical replicas have been rolled out across the country.

    Within two weeks of the lane opening in 2004, a cyclist died after being hit
    by a bus. The cycle lane has since been remodelled and a consultation
    process begun. A further redesign is on the cards which will move cyclists
    to the side of the road.

    Click here to send us your photos of questionable bike lanes

    Pedal power

    A Department for Transport spokeswoman says that the new highway code is
    open to consultation and cyclists are welcome to make their views known. In
    addition she says the government is committed to making cycling a safe and
    attractive option for everyone, and that it is best practice to use cycle
    lanes and to wear a helmet.

    This year local authorities plan to spend more than £35m on dedicated
    cycling initiatives, she says. Other money is available for cycle training
    in schools, and schemes to improve local cycling networks.

    Emily Thornberry MP, chairwoman of the all-party parliamentary cycling
    group, says she herself has come a-cropper in a cycle lane - a cab bumped
    into her from behind, knocking her off her bike.

    One of the complaints about cycle lanes is that motorists no longer notice
    bikes. Drivers will typically give a cyclist a wide berth, or give way at
    intersections; where there's a bike lane, the motorist will drive close to
    the line (as with any road marking), squeezing the cyclist into the gutter.

    "Most bikes are a metre wide, yet most cycle lanes are only about that - if
    not less," says Howard Boyd, the CTC's transport policy adviser.

    Tight squeeze

    Another cycling MP, Conservative Andrew Robathan, supports the campaign to
    change the draft highway code.

    "What I'd like to see the highway code say is what it said when I passed my
    driving test - that every motorist should give a cyclist a six-foot berth,
    so that if a cyclist falls off, the motorist doesn't hit him."

    Lanes that take cyclists away from traffic, whether parallel to roads or
    dedicated routes, often have the effect of the rider no longer being
    regarded as traffic, says Mr Boyd.

    "At intersections drivers are less likely to give way. Then there are the
    personal safety issues - is it lit, swept, a risk of people being mugged?"

    Rather than put money into expensive cycle lanes, he says there are better
    ways to encourage more people to cycle, more safely.

    "When London introduced its congestion charge, overnight there were more
    cycle journeys made and few accidents involving cyclists. It's schemes like
    that we should be supporting."

    He adds that cycle lanes only provide comfort to inexperienced riders. "The
    money would be better spent on cycle training for adults and children so
    they no longer need this false sense of security."

    And therein could lie the rub. If cyclists don't like to use bike lanes,
    will local authorities question whether it's worth throwing money at
    facilities few will use. For cycle lanes don't come cheap, costing up to
    £60,000 a mile. "

    Then there's a section for adding comments.

    Get busy folks!

    Cheers, helen s

    --

    ~~
    you may need to remove dependence
    on fame & fortune from organisation
    to get correct email address
    ~Noodliness is Good~

  2. "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    See

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4789146.stm

    "In the gutter

    Posted already by the other Helen ....

  3. On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:47:53 +0000, wafflycat wrote:
    heap, costing up to

    Quoted message said:

    £60,000 a mile. "

    Then there's a section for adding comments.

    My comment won't go down well.
    I invited a motorcyclist to choose a motorbike or a cycle helmet,
    then I'll whack him with a baseball bat.
    Ah well, but I'm sick of the "if you don;t wear a helmet you are an
    unsafe, scofflaw cyclist" mantra.

  4. In article <[email hidden]>, John Hearns

    () said:

    On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:47:53 +0000, wafflycat wrote:
    heap, costing up to

    Quoted message said:

    £60,000 a mile. "

    Then there's a section for adding comments.

    My comment won't go down well.

    I imagine mine won't either. Something along the lines of waiting for
    an understandable explanation of how some white point turns a Bad Thing
    into a Good Thing, with a rider to the effect that I hall mostly likely
    still be waiting when Stan skis to work.

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Do not top-post like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning.

  5. wafflycat said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4789146.stm
    ...cycle lanes don't come cheap, costing up to
    £60,000 a mile. "

    I feel tempted to tender for a contract to paint some now

    best wishes
    james

  6. I might as well say what I'm thinking.

    Cyclists will be off the roads within two years.
    They'll have the TdF stage for show, then legislate

  7. wafflycat said:

    See

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4789146.stm

    "In the gutter

    The new highway code advises cyclists to use bike lanes where
    provided.

    No it does not!

    Current:

    When cycling
    47: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey
    safer

    Proposed:

    When cycling

    58. Use cycle routes when practicable and cycle facilities
    such as advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan
    crossings where they are provided, as they can make your
    journeys safer.

    pk

  8. If you would like to see some great examples of cycle facilities then go to
    the Facility of the Month page at :-

    www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk

    Regards

    Rod King - Publicity Officer

    "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    See

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4789146.stm

    "In the gutter

    The new highway code advises cyclists to use bike lanes where provided.


    But

    Quoted message said:

    cycling organisations say this will make travelling on two wheels more
    dangerous. How come?

    Shattered glass. Strewn rubbish. Parked cars. Deep drains. Jarring


    potholes.

    Quoted message said:

    Lanes barely wider than a bike (sans rider). Lanes of a few metres. Or


    that

    Quoted message said:

    switch from one side of the road to the other.

    Such is the state of many of the cycle routes that criss-cross our towns


    and

    Quoted message said:

    countryside. Yet these are the very facilities intended to encourage


    people

    Quoted message said:

    onto their bikes.

    And now the Driving Standards Agency, part of the Department for


    Transport,

    Quoted message said:

    has released a draft highway code advising that cyclists should use bike
    lanes where provided.

    The CTC, the UK's national cyclists' organisation, has collected thousands
    of signatures in a campaign to try to get the new wording changed. They


    fear

    Quoted message said:

    that this advice could actually put cyclists at risk; that drivers'
    insurance companies will try to avoid paying damages to cyclists injured
    after riding in the road rather than a nearby cycle path.

    But cyclists have told BBC Radio 4's PM that they have good reason to ride
    in the road, as bike lanes are often badly designed, even dangerous.

    "In Battersea there is a cycle path on the pavement which has a beautiful
    tree in the middle of it."
    "A cycle facility near me has five gates to negotiate in half a mile
    (involving slowing down, stopping, opening the gate, going through,


    shutting

    Quoted message said:

    the gate, back on the bike etc)... or I could use the road."
    "Our cycle lanes offer poorer visibility than the road, run dangerously


    near

    Quoted message said:

    lamp posts and road signs, and are not respected by pedestrians."
    "In 2003 I rode from John O'Groats to Lands End and attempted to use cycle
    lanes where possible. On too many occasions I found myself in situations
    which were potentially more dangerous than staying on the road, where
    cyclists have a legal right."

    Among the most controversial is on London's Blackfriars Bridge, which


    leaves

    Quoted message said:

    riders exposed in the middle of the road, sandwiched between three lanes


    of

    Quoted message said:

    traffic. Near-identical replicas have been rolled out across the country.

    Within two weeks of the lane opening in 2004, a cyclist died after being


    hit

    Quoted message said:

    by a bus. The cycle lane has since been remodelled and a consultation
    process begun. A further redesign is on the cards which will move cyclists
    to the side of the road.

    Click here to send us your photos of questionable bike lanes

    Pedal power

    A Department for Transport spokeswoman says that the new highway code is
    open to consultation and cyclists are welcome to make their views known.


    In

    Quoted message said:

    addition she says the government is committed to making cycling a safe and
    attractive option for everyone, and that it is best practice to use cycle
    lanes and to wear a helmet.

    This year local authorities plan to spend more than £35m on dedicated
    cycling initiatives, she says. Other money is available for cycle training
    in schools, and schemes to improve local cycling networks.

    Emily Thornberry MP, chairwoman of the all-party parliamentary cycling
    group, says she herself has come a-cropper in a cycle lane - a cab bumped
    into her from behind, knocking her off her bike.

    One of the complaints about cycle lanes is that motorists no longer notice
    bikes. Drivers will typically give a cyclist a wide berth, or give way at
    intersections; where there's a bike lane, the motorist will drive close to
    the line (as with any road marking), squeezing the cyclist into the


    gutter.

    Quoted message said:


    "Most bikes are a metre wide, yet most cycle lanes are only about that -


    if

    Quoted message said:

    not less," says Howard Boyd, the CTC's transport policy adviser.

    Tight squeeze

    Another cycling MP, Conservative Andrew Robathan, supports the campaign to
    change the draft highway code.

    "What I'd like to see the highway code say is what it said when I passed


    my

    Quoted message said:

    driving test - that every motorist should give a cyclist a six-foot berth,
    so that if a cyclist falls off, the motorist doesn't hit him."

    Lanes that take cyclists away from traffic, whether parallel to roads or
    dedicated routes, often have the effect of the rider no longer being
    regarded as traffic, says Mr Boyd.

    "At intersections drivers are less likely to give way. Then there are the
    personal safety issues - is it lit, swept, a risk of people being mugged?"

    Rather than put money into expensive cycle lanes, he says there are better
    ways to encourage more people to cycle, more safely.

    "When London introduced its congestion charge, overnight there were more
    cycle journeys made and few accidents involving cyclists. It's schemes


    like

    Quoted message said:

    that we should be supporting."

    He adds that cycle lanes only provide comfort to inexperienced riders.


    "The

    Quoted message said:

    money would be better spent on cycle training for adults and children so
    they no longer need this false sense of security."

    And therein could lie the rub. If cyclists don't like to use bike lanes,
    will local authorities question whether it's worth throwing money at
    facilities few will use. For cycle lanes don't come cheap, costing up to
    £60,000 a mile. "

    Then there's a section for adding comments.

    Get busy folks!

    Cheers, helen s

    --

    ~~
    you may need to remove dependence
    on fame & fortune from organisation
    to get correct email address
    ~Noodliness is Good~

  9. wafflycat said:

    Click here to send us your photos of questionable bike lanes

    I selected 13 to send them. It'll be interesting to see what gets
    published on Monday.

    --
    Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
    Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

  10. Danny Colyer said:
    wafflycat said:

    Click here to send us your photos of questionable bike lanes

    I selected 13 to send them. It'll be interesting to see what gets
    published on Monday.

    Dunno, but Tuesday could read:

    "Unlucky 13 Unicyclist Nabbed in Copyright Scam"
    ;-)

    tt

  11. triddletree said:

    Dunno, but Tuesday could read:

    "Unlucky 13 Unicyclist Nabbed in Copyright Scam"
    ;-)

    Shouldn'a thought so, I hold the copyright on all the pictures I sent.
    Which meant holding a few good ones back, because I didn't take them.

    --
    Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
    Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

  12. p.k. said:

    Proposed:

    When cycling

    58. Use cycle routes when practicable and cycle facilities
    such as advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan
    crossings where they are provided, as they can make your
    journeys safer.

    What does the panel think "such as" means, in addition to the examples
    listed?

    James
    --
    James Annan
    see web pages for email
    http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
    http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

  13. Danny Colyer said:
    triddletree said:

    Dunno, but Tuesday could read:

    "Unlucky 13 Unicyclist Nabbed in Copyright Scam"
    ;-)

    Shouldn'a thought so, I hold the copyright on all the pictures I sent.
    Which meant holding a few good ones back, because I didn't take them.


    Hmmm.
    Methinks I made a stoopid assumption.
    <slaps head with wet kipper>

    tt

  14. John Hearns said:

    I might as well say what I'm thinking.

    Cyclists will be off the roads within two years.
    They'll have the TdF stage for show, then legislate

    I agree. This is undoubtedly the end game of all the anti-cycling
    campaigns in the media, and the ant-cycling legislation, and mandates
    from central and local government.

  15. in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan

    (') said:
    p.k. said:

    Proposed:

    When cycling

    58. Use cycle routes when practicable and cycle facilities
    such as advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan
    crossings where they are provided, as they can make your
    journeys safer.

    What does the panel think "such as" means, in addition to the examples
    listed?

    I fear that it will be interpreted to include all on road cycle lanes,
    and all cycle and 'shared use' paths which run parallel to roads. And if
    it is so interpreted it will make utility and sporting cycling much less
    attractive and considerably less safe in areas where such abominations
    are prevalent.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    Do not sail on uphill water.
    - Bill Lee

  16. Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan
    ([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What does the panel think "such as" means, in addition to the examples
    listed?

    I fear that it will be interpreted to include all on road cycle lanes,
    and all cycle and 'shared use' paths which run parallel to roads.

    "Such as" has a very similar meaning to "for example". It could quite
    easily be interpreted as meaning all cycle facilities. Certainly it
    implies that the list is not limited to the examples given otherwise
    the words "such as" would be redundant.

    --
    Dave...

  17. There is a cycle lane outside Leicester City Councils offices which is
    shorter than the length of a bike!

  18. On 12 Mar 2006 01:58:25 -0800,

    mikeb said:

    There is a cycle lane outside Leicester City Councils offices which is
    shorter than the length of a bike!


    Ah, but is it shorter than a unicycle? Leicester Council is an equal
    opportunities council and does not discriminate on number of wheels.

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
    and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

  19. John Hearns said:

    On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:47:53 +0000, wafflycat wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    My comment won't go down well.
    I invited a motorcyclist to choose a motorbike or a cycle helmet,
    then I'll whack him with a baseball bat.
    Ah well, but I'm sick of the "if you don;t wear a helmet you are an
    unsafe, scofflaw cyclist" mantra.

    One of my motorcycle helmets isn't, it's a car racing helmet which I
    bought because it's built to protect against higher impacts than road
    motorcycle helmets. I discovered recently that it's actually illegal
    for me to be wearing it on my motorcycle. One of those stupid laws I
    feel duty bound as a public-spirited citizen to break :-)

    In the only injurious motorcycle crash I've ever suffered the surgeons
    couldn't understand how I managed to survive such a head-on impact
    with no concussion or worse. They kept me in hospital for ten days
    waiting for the concussion to develop that they were sure I must
    have. When it didn't they told me I was amazingly lucky. I thought it
    might have had something to do with the fact that the helmet I was
    wearing at the time was made to higher protection specs than a
    motorcycle helmet :-)

    I'm a great fan of safety gear. I'd wear a bicycle helmet if I thought
    they did any good. I'm rather disgusted that cycle helmet
    manufacturers are permitted to sell helmets to the public that don't.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  20. Quoted message said:

    I'm a great fan of safety gear. I'd wear a bicycle helmet if I thought
    they did any good. I'm rather disgusted that cycle helmet
    manufacturers are permitted to sell helmets to the public that don't.

    eh?

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