Best position at traffic lights?

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:21:15 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In Cyclecraft, a cyclist is shown in the primary position in
stationary traffic. Is that the best position at traffic lights, or is
it better for me to move forward to the front of the queue? Does the
presence or absence of a cycle lane at the lights make any difference
to the answer?

The safest place to be at traffic lights is in the primary position,
at the head of the queue, preferably on advanced stop lines.

Getting there can be difficult.

Filtering on the left (with or without a cycle lane) brings a danger
of left turning traffic when the lights change, especially if there
are railings giving no emergency escape onto the pavement.

You are more visible filtering on the right, but you may be caught up
with right turning traffic when the lights change, and you feel more
exposed facing oncoming traffic.

Stay in primary position behind cars if you don't feel comfortable
filtering to the head of the queue, you will be perfectly safe, doubly
so if you get eye contact with the driver behind.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:53:03 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The safest place to be at traffic lights is in the primary position,
at the head of the queue, preferably on advanced stop lines.

Getting there can be difficult.

Filtering on the left (with or without a cycle lane) brings a danger
of left turning traffic when the lights change, especially if there
are railings giving no emergency escape onto the pavement.

You are more visible filtering on the right, but you may be caught up
with right turning traffic when the lights change, and you feel more
exposed facing oncoming traffic.

Stay in primary position behind cars if you don't feel comfortable
filtering to the head of the queue, you will be perfectly safe, doubly
so if you get eye contact with the driver behind.

Thanks, Tilly 🙂

How should I attempt to get eye contact with the driver behind? I've
been wondering whether I should think about getting a wing mirror for
my offside, partly because now that I'm <fx: ahem...> 43 I find it
less easy to turn quickly to the rear to see what's creeping up behind
me.. Should I try to establish eye contact via such a mirror, or
should I just turn round and look him/her in the eye?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Peewiglet said:

In Cyclecraft, a cyclist is shown in the primary position in
stationary traffic. Is that the best position at traffic lights, or is
it better for me to move forward to the front of the queue? Does the
presence or absence of a cycle lane at the lights make any difference
to the answer?

Unless the queue is very long, I'll just sit in the middle of the lane
as if I was a car. Drivers tend to get p*ssed off if you squeeze past
three or four cars, which then have to overtake you immediately the
lights change. If there are 30 cars they seem to understand.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:14:13 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

How should I attempt to get eye contact with the driver behind?

Look round and smile. I know it can be difficult to smile when
they're driving a 4x4, pouring out noxious fumes, but it really can
help.

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How should I attempt to get eye contact with the driver behind? I've
been wondering whether I should think about getting a wing mirror for
my offside, partly because now that I'm <fx: ahem...> 43 I find it
less easy to turn quickly to the rear to see what's creeping up behind
me.. Should I try to establish eye contact via such a mirror, or
should I just turn round and look him/her in the eye?

Advantages of turning around and looking at them:

a) People see movement, so actually moving your head is more likely to get
you noticed.
b) Presenting your face to them may make them consider that you're an actual
person, not just an evil cyclist. (this effect varies...)

cheers,
clive

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:20:49 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How should I attempt to get eye contact with the driver behind?

Look round and smile. I know it can be difficult to smile when
they're driving a 4x4, pouring out noxious fumes, but it really can
help.

Ok, I'll try that 🙂 Thanks!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Clive George said:

Advantages of turning around and looking at them:

a) People see movement, so actually moving your head is more likely to get
you noticed.
b) Presenting your face to them may make them consider that you're an actual
person, not just an evil cyclist. (this effect varies...)

Good points, thanks - I'll try that 🙂

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Tilly twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Filtering on the left (with or without a cycle lane) brings a danger
of left turning traffic when the lights change, especially if there
are railings giving no emergency escape onto the pavement.

There's also the "wonderful" possibility of having a passenger open a
door in your face ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Zog The Undeniable said:

Unless the queue is very long, I'll just sit in the middle of the lane
as if I was a car. Drivers tend to get p*ssed off if you squeeze past
three or four cars, which then have to overtake you immediately the
lights change. If there are 30 cars they seem to understand.

Good point - I can imagine myself experiencing those thoughts. Thanks
🙂

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

in message <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet

(') said:

In Cyclecraft, a cyclist is shown in the primary position in
stationary traffic. Is that the best position at traffic lights, or is
it better for me to move forward to the front of the queue? Does the
presence or absence of a cycle lane at the lights make any difference
to the answer?

In my experience and opinion, for an experienced cyclist, maintaining
primary position in the queue is often the safest option. To filter to
the front if there is an 'Advanced Stop Line' can be a good option in
some instances, but if you filter to the left and the queue starts
moving you can get into a very dangerous position of being stuck between
a barrier and a large vehicle turning left, and that is currently a
major cause of cyclist deaths.

So only filter to the left if

* You know the junction
* There is no barrier
* There are no large vehicles ahead of you in the left hand queue

Filtering up the right of the queue is generally safer. But, unless
you're in a hurry, maintaining your position in the queue - in primary
position - is in my experience safest, and nowadays it's what I usually
do.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

... a mild, inoffensive sadist...

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:42cedfd6.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Unless the queue is very long, I'll just sit in the middle of the lane as
if I was a car. Drivers tend to get p*ssed off if you squeeze past three
or four cars, which then have to overtake you immediately the lights
change. If there are 30 cars they seem to understand.

I second this approach, if you act like a vehicle you are more likely to be
treated like one.

Woody

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet

(') said:

In Cyclecraft, a cyclist is shown in the primary position in
stationary traffic. Is that the best position at traffic lights, or is
it better for me to move forward to the front of the queue? Does the
presence or absence of a cycle lane at the lights make any difference
to the answer?

In my experience and opinion, for an experienced cyclist, maintaining
primary position in the queue is often the safest option. To filter to
the front if there is an 'Advanced Stop Line' can be a good option in
some instances, but if you filter to the left and the queue starts
moving you can get into a very dangerous position of being stuck between
a barrier and a large vehicle turning left, and that is currently a
major cause of cyclist deaths.

So only filter to the left if

* You know the junction
* There is no barrier
* There are no large vehicles ahead of you in the left hand queue

Filtering up the right of the queue is generally safer. But, unless
you're in a hurry, maintaining your position in the queue - in primary
position - is in my experience safest, and nowadays it's what I usually
do.

One other point.

*If* you are 'filtering' for whatever reason, *always* make sure you can see the
lights, and immediately the lights turn amber, stop in such a way that you are
just ahead of the nearest vehicle (unless, it's the first one in the queue, of
course). You're far more likely to be noticed if you've just popped into
someone's peripheral vision than if you're back, alongside them, particularly on
the left. Even the worst motorist usually looks where it's going when turning,
so your chances of being hit are dramatically reduced if said motorist would
actually need to drive over you to get where its going.

Not saying filtering's a good idea, but if you do it, that seems to me to be the
best technique to make sure you don't surprise a motorist by a sudden sideways
collison.

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:55:58 GMT, [email hidden] (Steven)

Quoted message said:

One other point.

*If* you are 'filtering' for whatever reason, *always* make sure you can see the
lights, and immediately the lights turn amber, stop in such a way that you are
just ahead of the nearest vehicle (unless, it's the first one in the queue, of
course). You're far more likely to be noticed if you've just popped into
someone's peripheral vision than if you're back, alongside them, particularly on
the left. Even the worst motorist usually looks where it's going when turning,
so your chances of being hit are dramatically reduced if said motorist would
actually need to drive over you to get where its going.

Not saying filtering's a good idea, but if you do it, that seems to me to be the
best technique to make sure you don't surprise a motorist by a sudden sideways
collison.

Many thanks.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On 07/08/2005 21:20:49 Tilly said:

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:14:13 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How should I attempt to get eye contact with the driver behind?

Quoted message said:

Look round and smile. I know it can be difficult to smile when they're
driving a 4x4, pouring out noxious fumes, but it really can help.

Throw your empty coke can over your shoulder onto the bonnet of the car?

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

Buck said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How should I attempt to get eye contact with the driver behind?

Quoted message said:

Look round and smile. I know it can be difficult to smile when they're
driving a 4x4, pouring out noxious fumes, but it really can help.

Throw your empty coke can over your shoulder onto the bonnet of the car?

That's quite an interesting idea. I may try that later today.
:-)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 11:16:29 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Throw your empty coke can over your shoulder onto the bonnet of the car?

That's quite an interesting idea. I may try that later today.

Should avoid the 'SMIDSY' defence.

Al C-F said:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 11:16:29 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Throw your empty coke can over your shoulder onto the bonnet of the car?

That's quite an interesting idea. I may try that later today.

Should avoid the 'SMIDSY' defence.

'SMIDSY' defence?

Ahaa, I see :-)

Perhaps I need to go out in my spec's to run that one...

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Tilly said:

Look round and smile. I know it can be difficult to smile when
they're driving a 4x4, pouring out noxious fumes, but it really can
help.

Fumes? that'll be the bus with its poorly tuned engine next to the 4x4,
if I'm in my 4x4 I'll smile back, you might have noticed the "Mountain
Biking" stickers after all....

Peewiglet said:

How should I attempt to get eye contact with the driver behind? I've
been wondering whether I should think about getting a wing mirror for
my offside, partly because now that I'm <fx: ahem...> 43 I find it
less easy to turn quickly to the rear to see what's creeping up behind
me.. Should I try to establish eye contact via such a mirror, or
should I just turn round and look him/her in the eye?

When stopped at a junction I turn and look at them, then once I am sure
they have seen me I perform an arm waving pantomime to indicate what I
am going to do, that way I am not only sure they have seen me but
looking as if I know what I am doing/looking like a right prat (delete
as applicable) I have invaded there consciousness (quite often people
can look at you see you but totally ignore you).
You would not really know if you had eye contact in a mirror, BTW I am
42 and have never been happy with glancing/looking behind me (whilst in
motion).

--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione