bicycle for horses

Not in hooves, but in the shoes. You nail a shoe on the
hoof, as usual, with taps to screw in studs. Eventing horses
wear studded shoes (they gallop around a long course jumping
large, solid obstacles).

And yes, a well-conditioned horse *can* walk all day. Think
about wild horses, too. They have to walk all day to find
enough to eat and drink. (BTW, horses normally only sleep
3-4 hours a day).

Teresa in AZ

S o r n i said:

Can you even install cleats in hooves?

Bill "and then of course, there's finding a SADDLE" S.

Rick Onanian said:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:37:58 GMT, "S o r n i" <sorni@bite-

me.san.rr.com said:

Can you even install cleats in hooves?

Yep, horses often have them. Humans use those cleats to
play games, too...we throw them at a pole and argue if
it's close enough.

Ah. So the SHPD standard, then. Pedals must be
weighty, matey.

Bill "times four" S.

Hey Dennis, I brought this up with a few nerd friends of
mine during an IRC chat. I asked, how fast would a horse go
if he could be on somethign that is geared like a bicycle.

The general consensus is that a horse is specifically
designed to run. Thin aerodynamic body, long legs to amplify
(or 'gear'😉 the muscle strength.. etc. Everything about a
horse seems to be for speed and running.

Compare that to a human, where running appears to be the
least efficient means of travelling. Look at marathon
runners.. pounding the pavement with their feet, flailing
their arms around and presenting the wind with the worst
possible surface for aerondynamic purposes. Exactly opposite
of a horse..

So, that's why I think humans can go so well on bicycles. It
compensates for all the bad design of a human. It gets them
bent down aero more like a human, it is geared as to make
use of a human's high torque leg muscles, it is smooth
locomotion etc.. etc...

So my guess is a horse on a bicycle would do not get any
better of a speed or power transfer or whatever.

I don't know if that's what you were asking about, but thsoe
were the results from the discussion that your post spurred
last night.

--
Mike Beauchamp therevox.comtherevox.comOpen ↗ - custom electro-
theremins and stuff. mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗ - mike's
personal site.

"Dennis Farr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I posted this last week on some horse sites and got some
good advice. I was wondering if a treadmill could be used
to power a wagon and a horse could be made to operate the
treadmill.

I have since found out that horses operated stationary
treadmills for powering machines and ferryboats, but that
was almost 200 years ago.

I'm wondering if the technology could be developed that
would enable an ordinary horse and rider to beat Lance
Armstrong and/or Smarty Jones. (I'm thinking 100
relatively flat miles at 35 mph would be a good goal,
better than anything possible by a bicyclist or horse and
rider.) Basic data, a horse weighs around 1000 pounds and
can generate up to 3 horsepower in short bursts. Treadmill
would probably have to be around 10-12 feet long, would
need some sort of automatic transmission to keep the horse
operating at it's best speed and keep it from falling off
either end on a hilly road.

On a more practical level, if there are some of you who
DON'T think it would be worthwhile to do this just to see
if it could be done, this could magnify the output of a
horse just as a bike magnifies the output of a human, and
in parts of the world where animal power is still used, it
could make peoples' lives better.

I don't own horses, don't know how to weld, don't have any
money. Anybody thinks this is a cool idea, give it a shot
and let me know if it works.

There are lots of challenges, both ergonomic and
engineering.

"Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Dennis Farr) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think a lot of the discussion on this is missing a basic
point... A horse on a running on a treadmill is using the
exact same motion as a horse running on the ground. All
the treadmill and wagon can do is add friction and slow
down the horse. The reason a bicycle is more efficient
than running is that the weight is supported and the power
is transferred directly to the wheels.

Hmm. Humans running on ground and running on a treadmill
are about equally efficient, and humans on a bicycle are
more efficient. Sounds likely this logic would transfer
across species.

Quoted message said:

If you could design a wheeled contraption to support the
horses weight and let it transfer power directly to the
wheels, you would have something that would go very well.
Also people would pay to see it 🙂

I have this vision of a horse on a tandem. It's not a
pretty vision.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Dennis Farr) said:

On a more practical level, if there are some of you who
DON'T think it would be worthwhile to do this just to see
if it could be done, this could magnify the output of a
horse just as a bike magnifies the output of a human, and
in parts of the world where animal power is still used, it
could make peoples' lives better.

Just in case it might be interesting to you:
pedalpower.orgmaya.htmlOpen ↗

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

Compare that to a human, where running appears to be the
least efficient means of travelling. Look at marathon
runners.. pounding the pavement with their feet, flailing
their arms around and presenting the wind with the worst
possible surface for aerondynamic purposes.

Quoted message said:

Exactly opposite of a horse..

Actually, humans are very good at running but for very
long distances. An early method of hunting was simply
chasing an animal until it keeled over from exhaustion. I
have heard that horses can be caught in this fashion by
people. Of course, a horse and many other animals can run
faster then a person.

Quoted message said:

Lance's bike weighs about 10% of Lance. If horse and driver
weigh 1200 pounds, 10% of that is 120 lb. Double that
because we're probably going to need 4 wheels. Even if you
double that again, we're up to about what a buggy weighs,
and horses pulled them around in all

Quoted message said:

those Western movies without too much evident strain.

Yes but in those western movies, the buggy does not have
to suspend the horse and have the mechanism for the horse
to propel it. The mechanism you propose would weigh
considerably more then a light weight buggy because it
has more to
do.

Another problem is just the emotional one. Horses are
reasonably intelligent but there are things that are very
difficult to get them to do or even impossible to get them
to do. None of the horses I ever worked with would have
taken kindly to the notion on getting onto some strange
contraption and getting presumably strapped in so they could
do some sort of bizarre energy transfer.

Besides why bother? A human on a bicycle is very efficient.
Why would we want a horse powered vehicle? Machine powered
vehicles are much more convenient. Horses are big and
dangerous to work with, they can hurt a person very
seriously without really meaning to. Also why have a horse
propel a vehicle? Do we have any particular objective in
transporting horses around. The thing is that using horses
in a conventional fashion is plenty of fun so why bother?

[email hidden] (Pbwalther) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lance's bike weighs about 10% of Lance. If horse and
driver weigh 1200 pounds, 10% of that is 120 lb. Double
that because we're probably going to need 4 wheels. Even
if you double that again, we're up to about what a buggy
weighs, and horses pulled them around in all

Quoted message said:

those Western movies without too much evident strain.

Yes but in those western movies, the buggy does not have
to suspend the horse and have the mechanism for the horse
to propel it. The mechanism you propose would weigh
considerably more then a light weight buggy because it
has more to
do.

I'm assuming a vehicle made with todays materials and
technology could be fashioned which weighs at or below a
wooden wagon manufactured with 19th century technology, and
still be able to support the horse and driver and cargo.

Quoted message said:

Another problem is just the emotional one. Horses are
reasonably intelligent but there are things that are very
difficult to get them to do or even impossible to get them
to do. None of the horses I ever worked with would have
taken kindly to the notion on getting onto some strange
contraption and getting presumably strapped in so they
could do some sort of bizarre energy transfer.

Someone in a horse group pointed out that horses whiz around
the country in horse trailers with little discomfort all the
time, at very high speed.

Quoted message said:

Besides why bother? A human on a bicycle is very
efficient. Why would we want a horse powered vehicle?
Machine powered vehicles are much more convenient.

The horse provides the power. The human rides along and
steers. Horse and human get where they are going faster and
easier. I believe the horse would have a preference to be in
the vehicle if this idea works. With what little I know
about horses I infer they are lazy. Once you turn back
toward the barn, they tend to go much faster than they did
when you are going the other way.

Quoted message said:

Horses are big and dangerous to work with, they can hurt a
person very seriously without really meaning to. Also why
have a horse propel a vehicle? Do we have any particular
objective in transporting horses around. The thing is that
using horses in a conventional fashion is plenty of fun so
why bother?

Cars are big and dangerous, and are using up all our oil.
The horse in the vehicle goes faster and easier. This is why
you don't (often) see Lance pushing or carrying his bike
during the Tour de France. It's way easier and faster to
ride. The hope is this would also be the case for the horse.

[email hidden] (Jeff) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Dennis Farr) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I posted this last week on some horse sites and got some
good advice. I was wondering if a treadmill could be
used to power a wagon and a horse could be made to
operate the treadmill.

I think a lot of the discussion on this is missing a basic
point... A horse on a running on a treadmill is using the
exact same motion as a horse running on the ground. All
the treadmill and wagon can do is add friction and slow
down the horse. The reason a bicycle is more efficient
than running is that the weight is supported and the power
is transferred directly to the wheels.

This is only partly right. If you ride a bike without
sitting on the seat, it's still much more efficient than
running. In walking or running, the same friction that
allows you to push yourself forward also serves to stop you.
On a bike, the wheels make for a comparatively frictionless
forward motion. Riding a skateboard or rollerblades are not
quite as efficient as bicycling, but the use of the wheels
makes them much more efficient than running.

I think Dennis' question boils down to: how fast would a
horse go if it had the advantage of using wheels somehow. I
have no idea, but I think the answer is: a lot faster.

Quoted message said:

If you could design a wheeled contraption to support the
horses weight and let it transfer power directly to the
wheels, you would have something that would go very well.
Also people would pay to see it 🙂

How about something like a hospital gurney? It could be at
just the right height to allow the horse to push off the
ground, then coast on its belly--kinda like a skateboard.

Or how about roller skates with ratcheted wheels that can
only roll forward? Omigod that's just crazy enough to make
me think somebody's probably tried it on some kind of animal
somewhere...

Chet

"chet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think Dennis' question boils down to: how fast would a
horse go if it had the advantage of using wheels somehow.
I have no idea, but I think the answer is: a lot faster.

Quoted message said:

Chet

The advantage gained by a horse using wheels wouldn't be as
much as a human using wheels. A horse is already efficient
because of its long, light weight legs. It has a mechanical
advantage over humans. In addition, the difference between
an unfit horse and a fit horse is a lot less than the
difference between a fit and unfit human. Aslo, race times
for humans have improved dramaticly over the last 100 years
whilst horses have not changed as much. All this indicates
that horses are doing very well already, in terms of
efficiency.

Marty

chet said:

[email hidden] (Jeff) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Dennis Farr) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I posted this last week on some horse sites and got some
good advice. I was wondering if a treadmill could be used
to power a wagon and a horse could be made to operate the
treadmill.

I think a lot of the discussion on this is missing a basic
point... A horse on a running on a treadmill is using the
exact same motion as a horse running on the ground. All
the treadmill and wagon can do is add friction and slow
down the horse. The reason a bicycle is more efficient
than running is that the weight is supported and the power
is transferred directly to the wheels.

This is only partly right. If you ride a bike without
sitting on the seat, it's still much more efficient than
running. In walking or running, the same friction that
allows you to push yourself forward also serves to stop
you. On a bike, the wheels make for a comparatively
frictionless forward motion. Riding a skateboard or
rollerblades are not quite as efficient as bicycling,
but the use of the wheels makes them much more efficient
than running.

I think Dennis' question boils down to: how fast would a
horse go if it had the advantage of using wheels somehow. I
have no idea, but I think the answer is: a lot faster.

Quoted message said:

If you could design a wheeled contraption to support the
horses weight and let it transfer power directly to the
wheels, you would have something that would go very well.
Also people would pay to see it 🙂

How about something like a hospital gurney? It could be at
just the right height to allow the horse to push off the
ground, then coast on its belly--kinda like a skateboard.

Or how about roller skates with ratcheted wheels that can
only roll forward? Omigod that's just crazy enough to make
me think somebody's probably tried it on some kind of
animal somewhere...

Chet

Maybe a horse could learn to be more efficient with the
"walking machine" or "hobby horse"?
pedalinghistory.comPHhistory.htmlOpen ↗

Note: Tongue held firmly in cheek 😉