bicycle indicators

Since your hands need to be ready to activate the brakes at all times, my thought was to have such
lights activated by squeezing the brake handle in the direction you are going to turn. There is a
small gap where you cam move the brake handle without activating the brake. The handle bar end would
not be a good place for dropped handlebars or sweep back handlebars (because the end points
backward). (There are red blinking lights you can buy and put in these holes). Perhaps something on
the head tube? Perhaps a good lighting material wouod be the polybrite.compolybrite.comOpen ↗ material. A
sliver of soft, pliable, light diffusing plastic strip. LEDs at the end emit light into the strip
and it is released along the length of the strip.

Adrian said:

I am an A-level product design student, for my my major project i have decided to design and make
indicators to put on a bicycle. My initial idea is to put a device with indicators and a brake
light on the back of the bicycle connected to the seat post so people travvelling behind the
cyclist can see what the cyclist intends to do and then put a tube with a amber light on the end
fixed onto either end of the handlebars so people aproaching from the front can see if the cyclist
intends to turn. If anyone has any ideas on this please post a reply .... it can be possitive ...
negative ... doesnt matter all replys will be useful

[email hidden] (Adrian) wrote in news:c25fe6f5.0312281242.18533ac0
@posting.google.com:

Quoted message said:

My initial idea is to put a device with indicators and a brake light on the back of the bicycle
connected to the seat post so people travvelling behind

There is at least one product on the market that activates a brake light when the rear brake lever
is pulled. I have never seen this in use. I'd think you'd need a pretty large and powerful light to
be visible in daylight. Same goes for turn signal lights. Think about how large the turn and brake
lights are on cars and motorcycles. An arm signal is much more visible during the day and
universally recognized.

"Adrian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am an A-level product design student, for my my major project i have decided to design and make
indicators to put on a bicycle. My initial idea is to put a device with indicators and a brake
light on the back of the bicycle connected to the seat post so people travvelling behind the
cyclist can see what the cyclist intends to do and then put a tube with a amber light on the end
fixed onto either end of the handlebars so people aproaching from the front can see if the cyclist
intends to turn. If anyone has any ideas on this please post a reply .... it can be possitive ...
negative ... doesnt matter all replys will be useful

Brake lights have been done already. Nashbar has one: tinyurl.com3aft7Open ↗ There are also brake
pads with brake lights built into them: tinyurl.comuo7mOpen ↗

Turn signals have been done as well, I had them on a bike as a child. They're quite common on mopeds
and if I was going to put some onto a bicycle I would just use the same system as a moped or
scooter. It would be just as important to have turn signals that are visible from the front as well
as the back. I don't know about where you live, but around here people in cars do not use their turn
signals, so I doubt signals on a bicycle would do anything ... people don't even use lights on their
bikes at night.

C.Q.C.

"Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Adrian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am an A-level product design student, for my my major project i have decided to design and
make indicators to put on a bicycle. My initial idea is to put a device with indicators and a
brake light on the back of the bicycle connected to the seat post so people travvelling behind
the cyclist can see what the cyclist intends to do and then put a tube with a amber light on the
end fixed onto either end of the handlebars so people aproaching from the front can see if the
cyclist intends to turn. If anyone has any ideas on this please post a reply .... it can be
possitive ... negative ... doesnt matter all replys will be useful

Brake lights have been done already. Nashbar has one: tinyurl.com3aft7Open ↗ There are also
brake pads with brake lights

built

Quoted message said:

into them: tinyurl.comuo7mOpen ↗

Turn signals have been done as well, I had them on a bike as a child. They're quite common on
mopeds and if I was going to put some onto a

bicycle

Quoted message said:

I would just use the same system as a moped or scooter. It would be just

as

Quoted message said:

important to have turn signals that are visible from the front as well as the back. I don't know
about where you live, but around here people in

cars

Quoted message said:

do not use their turn signals, so I doubt signals on a bicycle would do anything ... people don't
even use lights on their bikes at night.

I've seen signals on mopeds, but if your bikeframe is like mine, it has panniers, an underseat bag
(tools), and, at times, a front bag. All of this would make it difficult to find space on the frame
for locating such devices so that they would be visible. Also, I think they'd need to be fairly high
up, perhaps integrated into the seat (or vertically from it, in some manner) to be visible enough
for use. It might also be possible to design something into clothing that might work, though this
might take some kinky tinkering to find materials that would work. I've taken to mounting lights on
the headset, seat post (when I'm not using the seat bag), back of the pannier rack, and even my
helmet, so I think it is possible to do something pretty creative with lights. The lights aren't the
issue, making a mounting system and human interface that works universally is.

Good luck,

Rick

"Adrian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am an A-level product design student,

Not sure what that means...

Quoted message said:

for my my major project i have decided to design and make indicators to put on a bicycle. My
initial idea is to put a device with indicators and a brake light on the back of the bicycle
connected to the seat post so people travelling behind the cyclist can see what the cyclist
intends to do and then put a tube with a amber light on the end fixed onto either end of the
handlebars so people aproaching from the front can see if the cyclist intends to turn.

So, you mean, turn signals and brake lights.

Drivers of motor vehicles have a variety of responses to bicycles, to wit:
A. fear, ie, the bicyclist is likely to do something weird or dumb, and I, motorist, might
accidentally run him/her over and have to do a lot of paperwork, have my insurance payment go up,
and feel guilty. B. Anger, ie, this moron bicyclist is in front of me, impeding my ability to
drive as fast and as recklessly as I otherwise might, and therefore, it is my right, nay, my
duty, to intimidate the bicyclist into never riding again, or at least, never riding in front of
me. C. Obliviousness, ie, I am consumed with what my boss said to me before I left work, or the
size of my coworker's [censored], or the fight I had with my teenager, or the cool song playing on the
radio right now, that the bicyclist riding along in front of me does not impinge on my
consciousness.

So, you have fancy turn signals and a brake light. The best part of these might be that people in
the C. category might notice you. Downside, they then might catapult into the B. category. Most
likely, they would go into the A. category.

So, now the people who are noticing your signals are fearful because of your potential
unpredictability. What you need to do is reassure them that you are going to behave in a
comprehensible, predictable manner, such that their risk of hurting you is relatively low. The
question is, do these proposed signals produce that desired effect?

Adrian, I dk what country you are writing from, but here, in Washington State (USA), everybody who
has a Washington State Driver's License, at one point, had to learn the basic hand turn signals. One
of the things I think I do to be helpful to the rest of traffic in general, when I'm on my bike, I
signal my turns with my hands. When it's dark, I have reflective material on my gloves and a
reflective armband on my forearm to enhance the motor vehicle operator's view of those signals. I
hope that everyone remembers that hand signal portion from their license exam, even if it was fifty
years ago, such that when people actually do notice me, they notice the signal and feel I am being
predictable.

If I had some sort of amber light blinking, they'd go, oh, amber light, and then they'd think, what
the hell does that mean? And they wouldn't know. They'd still be fearful. I would not have
communicated effectively. And I'd probably still use the hand signals, anyway.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗
My bookshelf: bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote

<snip>

Quoted message said:

If I had some sort of amber light blinking, they'd go, oh, amber light,

and

Quoted message said:

then they'd think, what the hell does that mean? And they wouldn't know. They'd still be fearful.
I would not have communicated effectively. And

I'd

Quoted message said:

probably still use the hand signals, anyway.

Or, as is common with drivers around my neck of the woods, the flashing amber light is a signal
which communicates to other drivers that you DARE to invade the space in front of them ... and the
response to that is to speed up to keep the idiot (only a wimpy looser would use their turn signals)
from slowing you down. I can only see this being worse with bikes ... who would want to let one of
them in front?

Communication is key, however you have to adjust it to the lowest common denominator ... the ape who
spent 3 years in the 8th grade, is 43 years old, on probation, unemployed, living with Mom, has 4
beers and a joint in him on his way to buying some crack and has a taco bell wrapper covering a
broken brake light*. These people can't figure out the most basic driving skills ... indeed, they
can barely function as human beings ... the most you can hope for is that they see you, and
something in the nether regions of their primitive brains kicks in as says "ugh, do not hit, hit not
good, cop show up, must keep stash". Have you ever tried to hold a conversation with one of these
people, say, about what side of the knife to use when slicing bread (alls they know is bread is
white, and comes pre-sliced)? It's freaking scary knowing these people drive ... it takes them a
whole minute to figure out the door they're pushing says "pull".

Hopefully, the OP lives in a more sedate corner of the world. I like the idea of a simple light bar
that integrates brake and turn signal. Does anyone remember the cool turn signals some old muscle
cars had? I think the 1970 ish Mercury Cougar had them as an option ... they were "chase" lights.
When you hit the brakes, and put your turn signal on, one side would stay solid, and the other side,
instead of simply flashing, would "chase" from the center to the outside. Take a look at this
picture and you may get an idea how they would work: tinyurl.com2aqbfOpen ↗ You could have a thin
row of LEDs which would mount on a bar horizontally under the seat in the back, and perhaps
something similar across the front handlebars (depending on type of course). For the back, at least,
it would be cool. It would be simple since running lights, brake and turn signal would be handles by
one unit, and it functions in a way most people are intuitively familiar with.

C.Q.C.

*The guys name is Jeff, from Woonsocket RI. Luckily, they finally pulled his license for life after
the 4th time busted drunk driving. Wouldn't matter anyways, he's in jail for buying crack in
Providence (c:

Ken <[email hidden]> wrote:

: are on cars and motorcycles. An arm signal is much more visible during the day and universally
: recognized.

But not as convenient for velomobiles. Maybe a turn signal system for velomobiles would make
more sense.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fi~rvarankaOpen ↗ [email hidden]

Ken said:

are on cars and motorcycles. An arm signal is much more visible during the day and universally
recognized.

I'll agree that hand signals should be, but there have been several times in Scranton where I've
seen people stop opposite me in an intersection, making the left turn, as I'm making a left turn.
They motion me onward, or sometimes wave their hands to get me to stop. And at the end of it all,
they give me a "Ohh, you're going THAT way?!"

Thanks to the people who wrote a responce its all been very usefull,
there are a few things i would like to add:

Alot of you have pointed out that really the standard way of indicating on a bicycle (using arm
signals) is more than adequte becasue it is universal whereever you go and the majority of other
road users are going to know what your telling them and this is a fair point. However , have u ever
tried signalling when you are going up a steep hill.... if u havent it is next to impossible

imagine this: you are going up a steep hill youve got cars behind you and there isnt really room to
overtake... your getting slower becasue its hard work getting up the hill and then you want to make
a right turn... you dont really want to be sticking your arm out when your allready unbalanced.

Another thing is that you haver to consider is the road surface , i live in a smallish farming town
in devon (UK) and well have alot of crappy roads, and we have huge bloudy tractors dropping lumps of
mud on the road ... not a problem in a car maybe but when your on a racing bike with 1" thick
wheels. There are more examples but basically what im saying is sometimes its just not safe to take
a hand off handle bars when your cycling.

And by the way A-levels are what we in the UK do in year 13 in school

Anyway please feel free to argue with the points i made

(Adrian) said:

I am an A-level product design student, for my my major project i have decided to design and make
indicators to put on a bicycle.

1. Why? I've never felt the need for any such, and several which have been developed over ther
decades have simply failed to sell.

2. Get hold of a copy of December's Velovision which has an extended review of a product of
this type.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I am an A-level product design student, for my my major project i have decided to design and make
indicators to put on a bicycle.

They are already out there available for purchase.

See

bseen101.combseen101.comOpen ↗

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**s@$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$

In article said:

Quoted message said:

I am an A-level product design student, for my my major project i have decided to design and make
indicators to put on a bicycle.

They are already out there available for purchase.

See

bseen101.combseen101.comOpen ↗

Go ahead with your A-level design project. maybe you can come up with something better. In any case,
you'll learn a little more about the design process, which is the goal for you.

Here, the freshman engineering students all design bike racks for pickup beds. None of them is any
better than what you can already buy, but someday some student will come up with a better design. Of
course, I can't imagine wanting to put a bike in a pickup truck bed instead of riding it. ;-)

On 4 Jan 04 09:21:33 MDT, [email hidden] (Bob Bayn, Network &

Computing Services) said:

Here, the freshman engineering students all design bike racks for pickup beds. None of them is any
better than what you can already buy, but someday some student will come up with a better design.

A guess: a design for a bike which has actual wheels so can be ridden to the bike track? ;-)

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗