Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

Callistus Valerius said:

Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

Dumbass,

Salbutamol, 1994.

Bob Schwartz

Bob Schwartz said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

Dumbass,

Salbutamol, 1994.

In which year Riis admits he was using Epo

Dan Gregory said:

Bob Schwartz said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

Dumbass,

Salbutamol, 1994.

In which year Riis admits he was using Epo

Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
in following years.

In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
sure when that came, 1996?

Bob Schwartz

On May 25, 9:35 am, "Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My favorite tdf winner is the Big Mig. The fact that he was big (170
lbs), that he used clinchers, he was an averaged sized guy, using regular
stuff, not superlight [censored], always made him my favorite. Dope free also,
makes him one of the few legitimate winners. Also, his exit was dignified,
and he always seemed less arrogant than the other riders who have come on
gone since. I don't think there are any Indurain haters even out there.
Wouldn't it be nice, if those kind of riders were again invited back into
the peloton.

I always liked the fact that he was closer to ~195 lbs. before his
great transformation into a TdF champ and that he could still climb
very well at that weight. Gave some (false) hope to us fat boys that
climb like bags of cement. Plus, I always admired the fact that he
did his time as a super-domestique in service of Delgado before
becoming a champion.

I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
naive but it is how I want to remember him.

On May 25, 7:15 am, Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

Dumbass,

Salbutamol, 1994.

Bob Schwartz

Quoted message said:

I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
naive but it is how I want to remember him.

Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY [censored]
BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
head's going to explode...........

Seriously, this is one goddamn mess because if anyone deserves to get
busted it was coke head Pantani.

CH

email hidden said:

Quoted message said:

I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
naive but it is how I want to remember him.

Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY [censored]
BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
head's going to explode...........

This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be clean?

Dope or not Indurain was great.

Quoted message said:

Seriously, this is one goddamn mess because if anyone deserves to get
busted it was coke head Pantani.

As I recall he was busted and by a greater authority than cycling can invoke.

Ron

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

email hidden said:

Quoted message said:

I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
naive but it is how I want to remember him.

Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY [censored]
BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
head's going to explode...........

This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they
take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be
clean?

I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.

On May 25, 1:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY [censored]
BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
head's going to explode...........

Quoted message said:

This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they
take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be
clean?

I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.

Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. Julich? likely,
too. Hamilton? I think only he and his only mentor still believe.

Dans le message de news:VsF5i.18$eO5.14@trndny08,
B. Lafferty <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

email hidden said:

> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this
> is naive but it is how I want to remember him.

Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY
[censored] BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the
scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh
my god my head's going to explode...........

This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If
they take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know
to be clean?

I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold
or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.

New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
[notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.

B. Lafferty said:

I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.

I saw Mottet cry on the podium at Worlds in Co. (the story being that
he raced clean and Argentin... maybe didn't?)

All well and good as long as there is no possibility that any food
(water, drinks, whatever) or pills or injections had any trace of
forbidden substances in them.

The obvious question is, how does an athlete know he is "clean"?

The "athlete is totally responsible" clause was another low blow in
the War on People.

========

OK, the dam has burst. Mr. 60% (he who gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF, in addition to winning the thing) has admitted using
EPO and other.

All charges, sanctions for positives, whatever and whoever, are
immediately dropped, for everyone.

Just a drop in the bucket, but that would be at least a sign of an
admission from the Power that they are fundamentally responsible for
the mess-- by making bad rules they could not fairly enforce through
simple testing, which situation caused widespread "cheating".

After all, if you know the guy or team next to you can cop an unfair
advantage with little-to-no fear of being detected, what are your
options?

Remember "Lead us not into temptation"? Makes me wonder if any of
these holy rollin' dope cops ever read the Good Book.

At some point, the world of sport needs to grasp the concept of an
"unsolveable problem", and find a way to play fair. --D-y

Curtis L. Russell said:

With a little bit of luck and a couple more 7-CD set self-realization
courses from California, I will be fully justified by the time I die.

Somebody should have sent some of these Californian CD sets to Sartre.

On May 25, 1:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY [censored]
BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
head's going to explode...........

Quoted message said:

This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they
take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be
clean?

I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal

Of course I think anyone would feel cheated and would want justice.
Clearly the worst victims of doping are those that are truly clean and
have made the sacrifices their sport demands only to be denied their
just dues. (Not that anybody outside the world of pro cycling
believes that there is a such thing as a "clean" rider anymore). As
others here have asked, how do you re-write the race results in good
concious and without knowing whether you are swapping one cheater for
another? In the case of Riis, Ullrich, and Pantani you're talking
about +/- 10 years ago. Looking at the GC standings of those Tours,
who would you elevate to the top step of the podium?

Quoted message said:

OK, the dam has burst. Mr. 60% (he who gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF

That would be a nice trick for a Euskatel rider (the orange bit anyway).

Quoted message said:

At some point, the world of sport needs to grasp the concept of an
"unsolveable problem", and find a way to play fair. --D-y

Unfortunately this dumb circle jerk is probably going to result in more
power to [censored] like Pound.

Quoted message said:

Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. Julich? likely,
too. Hamilton? I think only he and his only mentor still believe.

I believe.

Tugboat

PS Could someone turn on the air conditioner.

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dans le message de news:VsF5i.18$eO5.14@trndny08,
B. Lafferty <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré
:

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this
>> is naive but it is how I want to remember him.
>
> Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
> 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
> was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
> well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY
> [censored] BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the
> scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh
> my god my head's going to explode...........

This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If
they take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know
to be clean?

I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold
or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.

New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
[notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.

Damn Sandy, I could be the virtual TdF champion without having been there.
;-)

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell said:

With a little bit of luck and a couple more 7-CD set self-realization
courses from California, I will be fully justified by the time I die.

Somebody should have sent some of these Californian CD sets to Sartre.

Not even that could have let him die a happy death. (joke intended).

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dan Gregory said:

Bob Schwartz said:

Callistus Valerius wrote:
> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

Dumbass,

Salbutamol, 1994.

In which year Riis admits he was using Epo

Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
in following years.

In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
sure when that came, 1996?

No, 1990

Benjo

Sandy said:

New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
[notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.

OK, so I did a few things wrong. OTOH, I find as I grow older, I have
better reasons for doing what I did when I was young.

With a little bit of luck and a couple more 7-CD set self-realization
courses from California, I will be fully justified by the time I die.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...