bigha fan club

Quoted message said:

I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will

be

Quoted message said:

really cool.

You will not see BigHa in any bike shop since they are selling directly over the Internet. Probably
no bike shop would carry them after what BikeE did to the bike shops.

"jim h" skrev...

Quoted message said:

No, we climb over each other trying to pick it apart. Who needs a built-in horn - I'd rather have
my little metal handbell.

I just mentioned that because his reason for a horn seemed to be that he was tired of saying "on
your left" all the time. So I let him in on that closely guarded secret we call a bell. ;o) And I'm
talking a real bell here. Not those wussy little things that go <ding>. Is this "on your left"-thing
an american quirk btw? Seems a tad silly.

Quoted message said:

Integrated lights? Cheaper to duct-tape a flashlight to my head.

Nothing wrong with that either. I just wish they would solve the hairloss problem when you want to
take it off at bedtime.

Quoted message said:

They spent a lot of money designing a new seat - I guess we feel no further improvement is
possible - so let's just close the Patent Office, like they talked about doing a centry ago. Flash
web site? I'd rather just scroll text on my 286 PC.

Both bike and site looks okay to me. Not going to buy one though. But as John Acres said grumpy
benters with experience and a few bikes under their belt isn't the people they are aiming for. I'd
say they are going for the comfortbike-crowd. Comfortbikes are selling more and more here in Denmark
AFAIK. (This is based rather unscientifically on the increasing number of these bikes that I have
seen in bikeshops.)

I would still like to see the electronics package sold separately. If theres vital stuff in the
rear rack then design something that attaches under or on a standard rack maybe? (easy for me to
say so I am).

Mikael

Out of curiosity I tried to log on to bigha.com. My 56K modem works on everything else (I think) but
all that came up was a blank page. Is this what you guys are ranting about under the Flash thread?

Too bad for them - if they want my business they must speak my language. (56K dialup)

C.C.

Quoted message said:

From: "Mikael Seierup" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent Date:
Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:50:36 +0100 Subject: Re: bigha fan club

"jim h" skrev...

Quoted message said:

No, we climb over each other trying to pick it apart. Who needs a built-in horn - I'd rather have
my little metal handbell.

I just mentioned that because his reason for a horn seemed to be that he was tired of saying "on
your left" all the time. So I let him in on that closely guarded secret we call a bell. ;o) And
I'm talking a real bell here. Not those wussy little things that go <ding>. Is this "on your
left"-thing an american quirk btw? Seems a tad silly.

Yeah you have me there. I didn't notice that on my first reading of their site. In my opinion the
"mail-order bride" marketing plan is not going to fly. But if the dealers see interest building
maybe they'll forget about BikeE and work something out to get the machines in the stores.

Very few people would order a $3,000 bike without riding it first - probably not without riding it
more than once. And no local service? That shipping container had better be pretty good.

"John W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will

be

Quoted message said:

really cool.

You will not see BigHa in any bike shop since they are selling directly

over

Quoted message said:

the Internet. Probably no bike shop would carry them after what BikeE did

to

Quoted message said:

the bike shops.

Quoted message said:

new seat - I guess we feel no further improvement is possible - so let's just close the Patent
Office, like they talked about doing a centry ago.

As I understand it, no such thing was ever said in this context. The only matching quote known was
of someone saying that the pace of invention was going too fast and needed to slow down so that the
patent office could catch up. For in-depth reading, see myoutbox.netposass.htmOpen ↗ .

--
David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA

in article [email hidden], jim h at [email hidden] wrote on
2/11/03 5:12 PM:

Quoted message said:

But if the dealers see interest building maybe they'll forget about BikeE and work something out
to get the machines in the stores

BigHa has no interest in selling to dealers. I can only speak for Calhoun Cycle, but we have no
interest in BigHa. A $3,000 commuter that looks an awful lot like a $999 AT with a light. It's not
what we would classify as high-end or high-value. We also wouldn't carry any brand that only
warranties their frame for 5 years. Life-time warranty is the industry norm, and we expect nothing
less of the brands we sell.

It's too bad these guys couldn't take their experience from BikeE and get smarter. If it's possible,
I think they got even dumber. It didn't have to be this way. Look at at the guys at Bachetta. They
used their years of industry experience to built arguably the best new recumbent brand on the
market. I think 'BigHa' next to a $2,700 Corsa, clearly lives up to it's name. Unfortunately, the
joke is on the poor recumbent newbie who falls for their flash website.

If I'm right, that'll be the second black eye these guys will have given to an industry we love.

--

Mary Breen Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders calhouncycle.comcalhouncycle.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Very few people would order a $3,000 bike without riding it first - probably not without riding it
more than once. And no local service? That shipping container had better be pretty good.

I have no concept of if they will make it or not, but I think you might be exactly 180 degrees off
on that. Any RECUMBENT ENTHUSIAST would never spend 3k sight unseen, GIVEN THAT THERE AREN"T
MULTIPLE NEW OWNERS PRAISING THE HECK OUT OF IT. (I think you might be surprised at the number of
2-3k bikes purchased unseen). But those kinds of purchases are "usually" about performance bikes,
the latest and greatest. But this isn't that kind of bike. I would think this is a bike to be in the
Sharper Image catalog. FOr those trendy folks who have to have the latest electronic gadgets. THOSE
folks are most likely to be wedgie riders if they ride at all, so a COMFORTABLE, INNOVATIVE,
electronicaly interesting, bent MIGHT just be attractive. A similar market as the Cannondale but
less importance on the bike and more on the features. JMO

Mary, Well said below regarding BigHa. I think that truthfulness and honesty in advertising products
are essential also. Unsubstantiated claims regarding products that purport to enhance speed a
specified mph are something in particular that we need to watch. If a product makes a specified
speed enhancement claim as part of its advertising, then the manufacturer should provide data which
support the claim. I lose respect for and trust of manufacturers who make, and retailers who
blithely pass on, rather incredible claims of speed enhancements due to a product.
~~~al.kubeluis..md.usa.earth.sun.milkyway.virgo.universe..corsa~~~

"Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" <[email hidden]> wrote
2/11/03 5:12 PM:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But if the dealers see interest building maybe they'll forget about BikeE and work something out
to get the machines in the stores

BigHa has no interest in selling to dealers. I can only speak for Calhoun Cycle, but we have no
interest in BigHa. A $3,000 commuter that looks an awful lot like a $999 AT with a light. It's not
what we would classify as high-end or high-value. We also wouldn't carry any brand that only
warranties their frame for 5 years. Life-time warranty is the industry

norm,

Quoted message said:

and we expect nothing less of the brands we sell.

It's too bad these guys couldn't take their experience from BikeE and get smarter. If it's
possible, I think they got even dumber. It didn't have to be this way. Look at at the guys at
Bachetta. They used their years of industry experience to built arguably the best new recumbent
brand on the market. I think 'BigHa' next to a $2,700 Corsa, clearly lives up to it's name.
Unfortunately, the joke is on the poor recumbent newbie who falls

for

Quoted message said:

their flash website.

If I'm right, that'll be the second black eye these guys will have given

to

Quoted message said:

an industry we love.

--

Mary Breen Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders calhouncycle.comcalhouncycle.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will be really cool.

It would have to be amazing to see one in a store since they are not being sold there!

I admit they sound neat and I would not mind a test ride...but $3,000 for an internet ordered bike
with little or no specs available? Yeah, right.

Derek

Hmmmm. Lets us also consider some of the ... shall we say ... almost unbelievable speed claims that
occasionally find their way onto this NG ... and come from folks who one would suspect can't
possibly be in good enough shape to ... ahem ... accomplish what they said they accomplished.

Present company (quite seriously) excepted !

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush

"Al Kubeluis" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I lose respect for and trust of manufacturers who make, and retailers who blithely pass on,
rather incredible claims of speed enhancements due

to

Quoted message said:

a product.

Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I first started writing about recumbents, a large percentage
of buyers bought their recumbents sight unseen. Though this has changed, it is stiff difficult to
see some bikes before you buy them (without taking a trip).

Bob Bryant recumbentcyclistnews.comrecumbentcyclistnews.comOpen ↗

"Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BigHa has no interest in selling to dealers. I can only speak for Calhoun Cycle, but we have no
interest in BigHa. A $3,000 commuter that looks an awful lot like a $999 AT with a light. It's not
what we would classify as high-end or high-value

$3000. and not gold plated or bulletproof? That might not even sell to a Californian!!!

Chris Jordan Santa Cruz, duh.., CA. ;-)

I ordered a Tour Easy direct from Easy Racers in 1993. There was just no Tour Easy dealers any where
near St. Louis. I do not know if Tour Easy had any dealers at all a decade ago. If I remember right
I believe Vision was the first 'bent company to sell through bike shops only. I had seen and rode a
Tour Easy on Hoosier Hills ride so at least I knew what I was buying.

"DrRecumbnt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I first started writing about recumbents, a large
percentage of buyers bought their recumbents sight

unseen.

Quoted message said:

Though this has changed, it is stiff difficult to see some bikes before

you buy

Quoted message said:

them (without taking a trip).

Bob Bryant recumbentcyclistnews.comrecumbentcyclistnews.comOpen ↗

"DrRecumbnt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20030212101100.21495.00001076@mb-

Quoted message said:

Though this has changed, it is stiff difficult to see some bikes before

you buy

Quoted message said:

them (without taking a trip).

yeh, what Bob said.

What I'd like to know... Who's making money off this? The web designer, the computer CAD guy, um,
who else? Probably an executive or two. Is the company soley in existance to prey off of ignorant
investors? It seems most people are in agreement that this project is dead before it's even started.
Who's footing the bill? And why?

I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from the name to everything else
it really does seem like a big joke, only I don't get it.

"jim h" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What a bunch of curmudgeons posting here! Bigha, a new company, announces

an

Quoted message said:

interesting, innovative and high-end recumbent. We stand and cheer, right? No, we climb over each
other trying to pick it apart. Who needs a built-in horn - I'd rather have my little metal
handbell. Integrated lights?

Cheaper

Quoted message said:

to duct-tape a flashlight to my head. They spent a lot of money designing

a

Quoted message said:

new seat - I guess we feel no further improvement is possible - so let's just close the Patent
Office, like they talked about doing a centry ago. Flash web site? I'd rather just scroll text on
my 286 PC.

I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will

be

Quoted message said:

really cool.

My take on it is that it's just what it appears to be. Some former BikeE people are behind it, they
found there wasn't enough money in low-end recumbents, so this time they're going all the way to the
other end of the spectrum. There may be a market there, but it probably doesn't include a lot of
current 'bent nuts like us who read Usenet postings. Other posters used the "Sharper Image" metaphor
and that may be appropriate. While the machine might not seem cost-effective to us, its uniqueness
and the flashy electronics may appeal to well-heeled buyers who like the high-tech image.

BikeE lost the goodwill of the dealers so they're going to direct sales. Who knows, it may work and
the people who buy the machines may end up liking them.

At least they're not boring.

Quoted message said:

I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from the name to everything else
it really does seem like a big joke, only I don't get it.

DrRecumbnt said:

Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I first started writing about recumbents, a large
percentage of buyers bought their recumbents sight unseen. Though this has changed, it is stiff
difficult to see some bikes before you buy them (without taking a trip).

Bob Bryant recumbentcyclistnews.comrecumbentcyclistnews.comOpen ↗

I'm a person who does buy bikes sight unseen. I live in an area where the closest thing to a bike
dealer is Walmart and no one had a recumbent when I bought my first. I bought three different
recumbents by mail without test riding, but with lots of research and recommendations. I've been
very happy with two out of three. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I had a need. But there is
no way in hell that I'm going to buy a Bighaha, not even if they reduced it to half the price which
would make it more competitive with other manufacturers.

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

"A people living under the perpetual menace of war and invasion is very easy to govern. It demands
no social reforms. It does not haggle over expenditures on armaments and military equipment. It pays
without discussion, it ruins itself, and that is an excellent thing for the syndicates of financiers
and manufacturers for whom patriotic terrors are an abundant source of gain." Anatole France

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

name to everything else it really does seem like a big joke, only I

don't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

get it.

"jim h" replied:

Quoted message said:

My take on it is that it's just what it appears to be. Some former BikeE people are behind it,
they found there wasn't enough money in low-end recumbents, so this time they're going all the way
to the other end of the spectrum. There may be a market there, but it probably doesn't include a

lot

Quoted message said:

of current 'bent nuts like us who read Usenet postings. Other posters

used

Quoted message said:

the "Sharper Image" metaphor and that may be appropriate. While the

machine

Quoted message said:

might not seem cost-effective to us, its uniqueness and the flashy electronics may appeal to
well-heeled buyers who like the high-tech image.

BikeE lost the goodwill of the dealers so they're going to direct sales.

Who

Quoted message said:

knows, it may work and the people who buy the machines may end up liking them.

There is some sense in this approach. For years, I've wondered about the possibility of building
slick, high-end bikes designed to appeal to the wealthy.

There is a magical thing that happens when you create something visually appealing: People want it.
They don't ask the price. They ask "when can you deliver one to me?" At some point, industrial
design crosses over into the space occupied by art. Think Aeron chair. Think Spacelander fiberglass
bikes. People respond very powerfully to beautiful design.

For example: Personal computers are cheap - under $400 these days. Yet that doesn't stop Apple from
selling truckloads of $2,000+ and even $3,000+ desktop computers. PC fans laugh at the slow CPU
clock speeds on the Apple computers. Apple fans don't care; because CPU speed wasn't their primary
reason for buying. They bought a Macintosh as a digital lifestyle appliance, visual centerpiece and
fulfillment of a personal aesthetic. Commodity PC's simply cannot compete in that space.

Can I just say it? Most US-built recumbents are ugly. Really ugly. European 'bents, on the other
hand, are quite beautiful. Outside the US, where people actually ride bikes for transportation,
there are numerous boutique mfr's of beautiful high-end bikes (DF and 'bent) aimed at the wealthier
classes. It's not surprising that Americans might find this odd: Americans think that bikes are
toys. They buy them at WalMart and Toys R Us. That needs to change, and Bigha is definitely aiming
to change it. It's about time.

Another way of looking at it is that bikes are cheap compared to cars. Even a $3,000 bike is dirt
cheap compared to *any* new car. For people living in gated retirement communities in the sunbelt, a
beautiful, comfortable, health-promoting, fun, unique Bigha recumbent makes sense. Hey, what else
are you going to do with all that money? Buying cool toys is a pretty sure bet.

There is definitely a market for Bigha. I agree about the name, though: It's just wrong, and so is
the marketing message. I don't like the website, either (and I design websites for a living). They
need to work on that. Flash can be pretty annoying; but that's not the problem in this case. I would
have gone with something sleek and conservatively austere like the Mercedes Benz website, which is
one of the best I've ever seen. www.mercedes.com

I also think that having the fan club blog on the website is a bad idea, unless they plan to remove
negative comments. That might tend to backfire. Better to stay perched upon the mountaintop and
periodically sprinkle a few new products to the swooning fans the way that Steve Jobs does at Apple
Computer. Mr. Jobs is all but inaccessible until MacWorld, and then he's there to work his marketing
magic. Bigha probably knows all about the Apple phenomenon, and might even emulate it to some
degree. They need a figurehead - a colorful spokesperson who can get a lot of press coverage, and
create a mystique around this guy.

We should wish Bigha the best of luck. They are elevating the standards for recumbent aesthetic in
the US, and attempting to create an entirely new market. This is a very good thing

-Barry

First of all...I've been reading this thread with some level of amusement this week. It is
interesting that this bike has created such a stir. It really doesn't seem to have much to do with
current recumbent owners. The only thing I can conclude is that the whole BikeE debacle left bitter
feelings with many in the 'bent community. I wasn't around for all of thta, though I do remember
seeing a few BikeEs on the road and thinking they were really homely.

With regard to aesthetics... I'm sorry, the BigHa is a bike that only a mother could love the looks
of. Appearances are obviously highly subjective, but I don't see the attraction. As much as I
embracing switching to a recumbent for extended touring, it is not an aesthetic decision. I find
both diamond and cantilever frames to be much more aesthetically pleasing than any recumbent.

I also wonder if the Big HA release date is April 1. I can't believe that there will be much of a
serious market for this bike at $3K. I'm just waiting for the "April Fools" moment. If it is an
April Fools joke, it is a very elaborate one, and we have all been played the fool. If it is not,
then the real Big Ha is the one the investors will experience.

Rob "B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

name to everything else it really does seem like a big joke, only I

don't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

get it.

"jim h" replied:

Quoted message said:

My take on it is that it's just what it appears to be. Some former BikeE people are behind it,
they found there wasn't enough money in low-end recumbents, so this time they're going all the
way to the other end of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spectrum. There may be a market there, but it probably doesn't include a

lot

Quoted message said:

of current 'bent nuts like us who read Usenet postings. Other posters

used

Quoted message said:

the "Sharper Image" metaphor and that may be appropriate. While the

machine

Quoted message said:

might not seem cost-effective to us, its uniqueness and the flashy electronics may appeal to
well-heeled buyers who like the high-tech

image.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BikeE lost the goodwill of the dealers so they're going to direct sales.

Who

Quoted message said:

knows, it may work and the people who buy the machines may end up liking them.

There is some sense in this approach. For years, I've wondered about the possibility of building
slick, high-end bikes designed to appeal to the wealthy.

There is a magical thing that happens when you create something visually appealing: People want
it. They don't ask the price. They ask "when can you deliver one to me?" At some point, industrial
design crosses over

into

Quoted message said:

the space occupied by art. Think Aeron chair. Think Spacelander

fiberglass

Quoted message said:

bikes. People respond very powerfully to beautiful design.

For example: Personal computers are cheap - under $400 these days. Yet

that

Quoted message said:

doesn't stop Apple from selling truckloads of $2,000+ and even $3,000+ desktop computers. PC fans
laugh at the slow CPU clock speeds on the

Apple

Quoted message said:

computers. Apple fans don't care; because CPU speed wasn't their primary reason for buying. They
bought a Macintosh as a digital lifestyle

appliance,

Quoted message said:

visual centerpiece and fulfillment of a personal aesthetic. Commodity

PC's

Quoted message said:

simply cannot compete in that space.

Can I just say it? Most US-built recumbents are ugly. Really ugly. European 'bents, on the other
hand, are quite beautiful. Outside the US, where people actually ride bikes for transportation,
there are numerous boutique mfr's of beautiful high-end bikes (DF and 'bent) aimed at the
wealthier classes. It's not surprising that Americans might find this

odd:

Quoted message said:

Americans think that bikes are toys. They buy them at WalMart and Toys R Us. That needs to change,
and Bigha is definitely aiming to change it.

It's

Quoted message said:

about time.

Another way of looking at it is that bikes are cheap compared to cars.

Even

Quoted message said:

a $3,000 bike is dirt cheap compared to *any* new car. For people living

in

Quoted message said:

gated retirement communities in the sunbelt, a beautiful, comfortable, health-promoting, fun,
unique Bigha recumbent makes sense. Hey, what else are you going to do with all that money? Buying
cool toys is a pretty sure bet.

There is definitely a market for Bigha. I agree about the name, though: It's just wrong, and so is
the marketing message. I don't like the

website,

Quoted message said:

either (and I design websites for a living). They need to work on that. Flash can be pretty
annoying; but that's not the problem in this case. I would have gone with something sleek and
conservatively austere like the Mercedes Benz website, which is one of the best I've ever seen.
www.mercedes.com

I also think that having the fan club blog on the website is a bad idea, unless they plan to
remove negative comments. That might tend to

backfire.

Quoted message said:

Better to stay perched upon the mountaintop and periodically sprinkle a

few

Quoted message said:

new products to the swooning fans the way that Steve Jobs does at Apple Computer. Mr. Jobs is all
but inaccessible until MacWorld, and then he's there to work his marketing magic. Bigha probably
knows all about the

Apple

Quoted message said:

phenomenon, and might even emulate it to some degree. They need a figurehead - a colorful
spokesperson who can get a lot of press coverage, and create a mystique around this guy.

We should wish Bigha the best of luck. They are elevating the standards

for

Quoted message said:

recumbent aesthetic in the US, and attempting to create an entirely new market. This is a very
good thing

-Barry