Bike chains

Dieter Britz said:

I have just put a new chain on my bike, the old one starting to get
a bit noisy (stretched). I once read here that chains stretch because
grit grinds away at the bearings, so I assumed that it didn't matter
much how much I pay for a chain. The bike shop tells me, however, that
there are various qualities of chain.

Does it pay to pay more for a chain, and if so, why?

Up to a point, yes. As far as I can tell, that point is somewhere around the
cheapest SRAM, Shim, KMC chain that'll work for your gear set up. My favorite
bike shop seems to concur. Better materials, assembly and heat treat will mean
less wear. What I've seen is those things happen pretty low on the cost/benefit
curve.

YMMV and I'd love to hear of exceptions and things that are better.

Ron

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:04:47 +0100, Dieter Britz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I have just put a new chain on my bike, the old one starting to get
a bit noisy (stretched). I once read here that chains stretch because
grit grinds away at the bearings, so I assumed that it didn't matter
much how much I pay for a chain. The bike shop tells me, however, that
there are various qualities of chain.

Does it pay to pay more for a chain, and if so, why?

$20-30 Sram 9sp, KMC 10sp

You don't mention what width/speed chain you need. All the chains are
about the same. Differences in quality are often differences in
finish of the steel. I recall that 105 chain is nickel plated,
ultegra nickel/chrome and DA chrome. I look for a chain with a
removable link. In 10sp the KMC DX10 or Shimano 105 are my favorites.
For 9sp the Sram or Shimano work for me. I usually choose the chain
with removable links.

When I was a waxer, the Connex link was best because it came
disassembled easiest. I reuse that link for several chains. I've
become a Prolink person and taking the chain off is not so important
anymore.

Paul Kopit said:

When I was a waxer, the Connex link was best because it came
disassembled easiest. I reuse that link for several chains. I've
become a Prolink person and taking the chain off is not so important
anymore.

Serendipitous posting. I am currently refurbing my tandem and I have
to link two chains together for the length between the captain and
stoker cranks. I bought two SRAM chains which come with two removable
lengths. I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to length and
use both removable links or would pressing them together do the trick?

JCrowe said:

I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
length and use both removable links or would pressing
them together do the trick?

Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

My understanding is that modern track/BMX chain, being intended for
single-cog use, uses straight pins to allow for length tuning.

I vote for removing links from one or both chains and, yeah, using
both the snap-links to join them.

Dieter Britz said:

I have just put a new chain on my bike, the old one starting to get a bit
noisy (stretched). I once read here that chains stretch because grit
grinds away at the bearings, so I assumed that it didn't matter much how
much I pay for a chain. The bike shop tells me, however, that there are
various qualities of chain.

Does it pay to pay more for a chain, and if so, why?

In my experience, the expensive ones don't last any longer than the cheap
ones.

I used to wear out chains in 2-3 months of mountain biking. Always
looking for more chain life per dollar I tried all levels of quality,
and found there's no difference. A decade of this is a pretty good sample.

Look for the cheapest chain that fits your drivetrain. Currently I'm
using 8 and 9 speed Nashbar chains by KMC that cost $10-15 each on
sale.

Matt O.

On 3/26/2008 10:41 AM said:

JCrowe said:

I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
length and use both removable links or would pressing
them together do the trick?

Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

--
Mike RJS (Who isn't learning as much new stuff as forgetting old stuff
these days)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JCrowe said:

I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
length and use both removable links or would pressing
them together do the trick?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Mike Elliott said:

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

Sevens go both ways but 8-9-10 chain have thinner links with tighter
rivets and they set flush. Quite difficult to do well when it is
possible at all. The downside risk is a rider injury. Use a snap link!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/26/2008 12:27 PM A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JCrowe <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
> length and use both removable links or would pressing
> them together do the trick?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Mike Elliott said:

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

Sevens go both ways but 8-9-10 chain have thinner links with tighter
rivets and they set flush. Quite difficult to do well when it is
possible at all. The downside risk is a rider injury. Use a snap link!

Well I'll be hornswoggled. I've been doing my 9's the Old School way all
along! Nobody ever tells me anything.

I reckon I better get some snap links. I wonder if my Performance LBS
stocks them. I guess I need new chains, too. Dang.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

Mike Elliott said:

On 3/26/2008 10:41 AM said:

JCrowe said:

I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
length and use both removable links or would pressing
them together do the trick?

Quoted message said:

Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

You can take them apart with a chain tool, just don't put them back
together the old way. Both Shimano & Campy pins should be pushed out
all the way, and have special rejoining pins to replace the old ones
(Shimano pins are cheap, Campys are half the price of a new chain).
That special pin should not be pushed out again later, Other brands
include snaplinks to rejoin. As long as the width is the same, SRAM,
Wipperman and KMC snaplinks can be used with Shimano and Campy chains.

Matt O'Toole said:

Dieter Britz said:

I have just put a new chain on my bike, the old one starting to get a bit
noisy (stretched). I once read here that chains stretch because grit
grinds away at the bearings, so I assumed that it didn't matter much how
much I pay for a chain. The bike shop tells me, however, that there are
various qualities of chain.

Quoted message said:

Does it pay to pay more for a chain, and if so, why?

In my experience, the expensive ones don't last any longer than the cheap
ones.

I used to wear out chains in 2-3 months of mountain biking.  Always
looking for more chain life per dollar I tried all levels of quality,
and found there's no difference.  A decade of this is a pretty good sample.

Look for the cheapest chain that fits your drivetrain.  Currently I'm
using 8 and 9 speed Nashbar chains by KMC that cost $10-15 each on
sale.

Matt O.

On the 10-speed front, I really like the "Forte' by KMC" chains that
Performance frequently has on sale between $20 and $25.

"Dieter Britz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have just put a new chain on my bike, the old one starting to get
a bit noisy (stretched). I once read here that chains stretch because
grit grinds away at the bearings, so I assumed that it didn't matter
much how much I pay for a chain. The bike shop tells me, however, that
there are various qualities of chain.

Does it pay to pay more for a chain, and if so, why?
--
Dieter Britz (oldnob<at>yahoo.dk)

The best ways to make a chain last longer are-

#1: Become a lightweight. Somebody 180lbs wears out chains much faster than
someone 120lbs. Dramatic difference.

#2: Become a clean freak. A spotless chain lasts much longer than one that's
dirty. Unfortunately, this often means spending as much time cleaning your
bike as riding it.

#3: Avoid hills.

#4: Don't buy the cheapest chain available. Usually the chain one-up from
the bottom works almost as well as the most-expensive chains. But the very
cheapest tend to be pretty bad.

If you've got a 10-speed drivetrain, the KMC & Shimano chains work very
nicely. I'm not a fan of the SRAM. Noisy, seems to wear more quickly, and
break more often than I'd like. For 9-speeds, same thing, except that
there's no wear or failure issue with the SRAM chains (although I don't find
they shift as well up front as the other chains).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Matt O'Toole said:

In my experience, the expensive ones don't last any longer than the cheap
ones.

I used to wear out chains in 2-3 months of mountain biking. Always
looking for more chain life per dollar I tried all levels of quality,
and found there's no difference. A decade of this is a pretty good sample.

That may be true for mountain bikes, but it isn't for road bikes, in
my experience. Campagnolo 10-speed chains are expensive, but they
last considerably longer than their KMC equivalents.

On 3/26/2008 1:11 PM Hank said:

Mike Elliott said:

On 3/26/2008 10:41 AM said:

On Mar 26, 10:11 am, JCrowe <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
> length and use both removable links or would pressing
> them together do the trick?
Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

You can take them apart with a chain tool, just don't put them back
together the old way. Both Shimano & Campy pins should be pushed out
all the way, and have special rejoining pins to replace the old ones
(Shimano pins are cheap, Campys are half the price of a new chain).
That special pin should not be pushed out again later, Other brands
include snaplinks to rejoin. As long as the width is the same, SRAM,
Wipperman and KMC snaplinks can be used with Shimano and Campy chains.

Well, looks like I have a few new chains to order! Might as well get
Gnashbar's snaplink variety, they seem to be the price leader right now
in 9's and 8's.

While I'm at it, I've been considering getting one of those on-bike
chain cleaning tools. Been asked and probably answered a million times
here, but is there a consensus about what's a good one? Gnashbar has
Park and Finish Line, and the chains I need, so that's my main stop.

--
Mike RJS

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JCrowe <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
> length and use both removable links or would pressing
> them together do the trick?

Quoted message said:

Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Mike Elliott said:

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

Sevens go both ways but 8-9-10 chain have thinner links with tighter
rivets and they set flush.

My experience running 8speed medium quality KMC chains (also labeled
"Nashbar" or even "Nashbar tandem"😉 and Sram P48s and 58s and using a
classic Rivoli tool on those chains has been without incident. They
all have pronounced rivets. Are there some fancy streamlined 8spd
chains out there that I don't know about??

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

If you've got a 10-speed drivetrain, the KMC & Shimano chains work very
nicely. I'm not a fan of the SRAM. Noisy, seems to wear more quickly, and
break more often than I'd like. For 9-speeds, same thing, except that
there's no wear or failure issue with the SRAM chains (although I don't find
they shift as well up front as the other chains).

Mike, what do you have to say about the venerable PC-48, PC-58, and
PC-68 SRAM chains? I have been pretty happy with SRAM PC-68's.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Elliott said:

On 3/26/2008 1:11 PM Hank said:

Mike Elliott said:

On 3/26/2008 10:41 AM [email hidden] wrote:

> On Mar 26, 10:11 am, JCrowe <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
>> length and use both removable links or would pressing
>> them together do the trick?
> Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
> That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
> peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
> the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
> those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).
Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

You can take them apart with a chain tool, just don't put them back
together the old way. Both Shimano & Campy pins should be pushed out
all the way, and have special rejoining pins to replace the old ones
(Shimano pins are cheap, Campys are half the price of a new chain).
That special pin should not be pushed out again later, Other brands
include snaplinks to rejoin. As long as the width is the same, SRAM,
Wipperman and KMC snaplinks can be used with Shimano and Campy chains.

Well, looks like I have a few new chains to order! Might as well get
Gnashbar's snaplink variety, they seem to be the price leader right now
in 9's and 8's.

While I'm at it, I've been considering getting one of those on-bike
chain cleaning tools. Been asked and probably answered a million times
here, but is there a consensus about what's a good one? Gnashbar has
Park and Finish Line, and the chains I need, so that's my main stop.

The on-bike chain cleaning tools are very little help.
Wipe down the chain regularly.

I figure anything I put on the chain will carry grit
into the mating surfaces, so I have stopped worrying
about it. I put on lubricant and thoroughly wipe the
chain.

Folks here have described excellent methods for
cleaning the chain off the bicycle, but my time
is better spent arranging my sock drawer.

--
Michael Press

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

On 3/26/2008 12:27 PM A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

> JCrowe <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
>> length and use both removable links or would pressing
>> them together do the trick?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
> That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
> peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
> the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
> those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Quoted message said:

Mike Elliott said:

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

Quoted message said:

Sevens go both ways but 8-9-10 chain have thinner links with tighter
rivets and they set flush. Quite difficult to do well when it is
possible at all.  The downside risk is a rider injury. Use a snap link!

Well I'll be hornswoggled. I've been doing my 9's the Old School way all
along! Nobody ever tells me anything.

I reckon I better get some snap links. I wonder if my Performance LBS
stocks them. I guess I need new chains, too. Dang.

Do what Muzi says, but I still use a chain tool on my SRAM 9sp chains
-- at least some of them. I have never had a problem. I have had
more problems with the super-duper links not-so-quick links than my
regular links. -- Jay Beattie.

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:20:27 -0700, Mike Elliott <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 3/26/2008 10:41 AM said:

JCrowe said:

I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to
length and use both removable links or would pressing
them together do the trick?

Pressing together, as in joining the two chains with a chain tool?
That's officially a no-no with modern multi-speed chains (the pins are
peened, so they flare at the ends, so when you drive them through with
the chain tool, they enlarge the holes in the side plates, and then
those side plates won't fit tightly on reassembly).

Wait -- modern chains should not be taken apart with a chain tool? I did
not know that! That's how I remove mine to clean. So . . . what's the
more correct procedure?

Don't know if that's a typo.... You do use a chain tool to take it apart, you
aren't supposed to use one to put it back together.

A lot of mixed experience on this. I re-riveted a Shimano 8s chain (instead of
using the magic pin) and got about 200 miles before it took the der hanger off
my mountain bike. Others seem to have no problem.

Mostly I use the Sram links - cheap, easy and reliable.*

Ron
Just how I like my women

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:11:17 -0500, JCrowe <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Serendipitous posting. I am currently refurbing my tandem and I have
to link two chains together for the length between the captain and
stoker cranks. I bought two SRAM chains which come with two removable
lengths. I suppose I should just shorten the second chain to length and
use both removable links or would pressing them together do the trick?

You can use the 2 links for the 1½ chains you are going to use. If
the timing chain is tensioned properly, you won't be able to get the
link to come apart. On my timing chain, I usually put a rag on the
chainrings and force the chain off the ring. I never rejoin chains by
reinserting pushed links.