Bike Shop knowledge test

I got a 559 tire on a 571 rim and received numerous pinch flats and broken spokes riding over small bumps and potholes.

A 451 tube goes in a 406 rim/tire but will chafe itself to death rather quickly. That was was received from a shop in which the owner knew ISO sizing and what I meant when I asked for a 406 tube, yet referred me back to an employee that had no idea that 20" was not a uniform size.

Even if the mis-size is noticed before installation, it’s awfully inconvenient to have to make another trip back to a shop that might not be in your neighborhood.

If the LBS guys don't know what the ISO sizing is, there is a strong risk they'll give you mis-sized tire/wheel components. Find another shop that does.

Quoted message said:

The final one went and rooted around in the back store and came out with
a pair of Richey's which were exactly what I wanted, at a very
reasonable price 10 UKP.

Yeah, I finally went to the local hardware store and a friendly,
smiling guy sold me a left-handed metric crescent wrench ... boy, am I
happy now!

Quoted message said:

Wheatstraw said:

Droid. Very nice. -snip-

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
-snip-> And I was not pleased at all that they had zero
622-sized

Quoted message said:

tires, but a whole stack of 27-inch tubes...and this is
one of the two biggest bike shops in the state.

Just as some 700C tires are marked '28 inches', some makers
of tubulars call them '27 inch'. They're just normal tubulars.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jeff Starr <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why would you expect a druid to know anything about bicycles?
Seeing as druids are an order of priests in ancient Gaul and Britain
who appear in Welsh and Irish legend as prophets and sorcerers.

Druids in bike shops really bug me. Most of them aren't at all
helpful, unless they think you're willing to shell out for a new Woad
bike.

Peter Storey
(Feeling a bit blue myself)

On 9 Oct 2004 15:49:57 -0700, [email hidden]

(Peter Storey) said:

Jeff Starr <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why would you expect a druid to know anything about bicycles?
Seeing as druids are an order of priests in ancient Gaul and Britain
who appear in Welsh and Irish legend as prophets and sorcerers.

Druids in bike shops really bug me. Most of them aren't at all
helpful, unless they think you're willing to shell out for a new Woad
bike.

Peter Storey
(Feeling a bit blue myself)

Dear Peter,

The Druids in the sæcred æsh-groves of WoadMart ære ælwæys
quite helpful when I æsk for directions to where the Fury
RoadMæster lurks.

Cærl Fogell

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

If you wanted to pick a better example (of a place where the ISO system

If I know all the "better examples" then I don't need the
ISO system, I can just keep the entire table of exceptions
in my head. Which is the old way of doing things.

The point of the ISO system is that it reduces the
problem to the variables that matter.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When did 700C (622) extinct 27" (630) anyway? (Remember,
I had an accident with radioactive isotopes and spent 12
years in a cryovac bag in the frozen-vegetables section of
my local supermarket instead of out in the sunshine riding
my bike, so a few crucially important cultural phenomena
may have passed me by).

The hybrid bike pretty much killed off the remnants of the 27" world,
probably about the time you got sealed into that vacuum bag. It wasn't a
big deal, as better road bikes always had 700c wheels, and the
department-store versions (with 27" wheels) became extinct, in favor of
mountain bikes. Hybrids, for whatever reason, pretty much started off with
700c and things just carried on from there.

Each of my wheels was about twice the price of a department-store bike.

--Blair
"They weren't new when I stopped riding."

Blair P. Houghton said:

Wheatstraw said:

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

I wasn't condescending in the slightest.

I was however not really pleased that when it comes to
a matter of safety they don't know the means of ensuring
that the replacement part is the correct size.

In what way does asking about an unused system of measurement help test that.

Quoted message said:

The ISO system ensures your bead will be seated, and covers
all makes of wheels.

Like the counter guy designs the tires? Measures them with a micrometer to make
sure they're actually the size that's printed on the sidewall? I don't get it.

Ask for a 27" and that's what you'll get. Request 700C and you'll receive one of
those. Ask for a 622mm and expect to get looked at oddly. We've already got
enough sizes, why confuse the issue by wanting more names for the sizes we've
already got.

Quoted message said:

When did 700C (622) extinct 27" (630) anyway? (Remember,
I had an accident with radioactive isotopes and spent 12
years in a cryovac bag in the frozen-vegetables section of
my local supermarket instead of out in the sunshine riding
my bike, so a few crucially important cultural phenomena
may have passed me by).

700C goes right onto the same bike and brakes as tubular rims.

Ron

Quoted message said:

And I was not pleased at all that they had zero 622-sized
tires, but a whole stack of 27-inch tubes...and this is
one of the two biggest bike shops in the state.

--Blair
"Hate the French. Love their fries, though."

"meb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

And they may just think you're one more turkey who's looking for a
"28-inch
tire" and clueless. Get them all the time, people who read off the
first
number on the tire (or perhaps it's the second one) and, since it's
recognizable as something close to "27 inch" (which they grew up with),
they
assume it's the tire diameter.

There will always be people who are newer or simply less-experienced in
such
things at a bike shop. So what? That's the case for just about
anything in
life. The question is not whether you can find a "droid" who doesn't
know
what you're talking about, but rather if there's anybody at all there
who
can be of help. Chances are there is.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Just because the shop owner (who may be tied up with two or three other
customers) in the repair section knows ISO sizing doesn't help if the
people in the parts area give you the wrong ISO sized part and
convinces you you that's what you need and you don't realize it till
you're home or until you've had a flat from using the wrong sized item.
Even if you get the most knowledgable person in the shop, you may still
get a statement such as all our 20" tires will fit your rim.

Have this happen a few times and it will teach you to learn the ISO
system yourself. Think how many others wind up with wrong items from
these Druids.

Ask a shop if they can left hand thread helicoil a left crank, I've
seen one shop ask what's a helicoil, another say helicoilling won't be
strong enough for cranks, and another say we do it all the time and
it'l be stronger than the original thread. That shows there is a wide
disparity in the knowledge and service quality from shop to shop.

Blair's suggestion is a pretty good quick barometer for determining
whether this shop knows what they're doing.

--
meb

I thought the left-hand/righthand thread thing was kind of
counter-intuitive, thus meaning that you had to left-hand thread the RIGHT
crank. Or have I double bluffed myself? I'm an utter noob with bikes, only
started riding again a few months back.

Whups...I'm thinking of bearing cups in the bottom bracket, right?

"otter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"meb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
> if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
> any "23-622's" too, just in case.
>
> I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
> a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
> of tire nomenclature...

And they may just think you're one more turkey who's looking for a
"28-inch
tire" and clueless. Get them all the time, people who read off the
first
number on the tire (or perhaps it's the second one) and, since it's
recognizable as something close to "27 inch" (which they grew up

with),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they
assume it's the tire diameter.

There will always be people who are newer or simply less-experienced

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

such
things at a bike shop. So what? That's the case for just about
anything in
life. The question is not whether you can find a "droid" who doesn't
know
what you're talking about, but rather if there's anybody at all there
who
can be of help. Chances are there is.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Just because the shop owner (who may be tied up with two or three other
customers) in the repair section knows ISO sizing doesn't help if the
people in the parts area give you the wrong ISO sized part and
convinces you you that's what you need and you don't realize it till
you're home or until you've had a flat from using the wrong sized item.
Even if you get the most knowledgable person in the shop, you may still
get a statement such as all our 20" tires will fit your rim.

Have this happen a few times and it will teach you to learn the ISO
system yourself. Think how many others wind up with wrong items from
these Druids.

Ask a shop if they can left hand thread helicoil a left crank, I've
seen one shop ask what's a helicoil, another say helicoilling won't be
strong enough for cranks, and another say we do it all the time and
it'l be stronger than the original thread. That shows there is a wide
disparity in the knowledge and service quality from shop to shop.

Blair's suggestion is a pretty good quick barometer for determining
whether this shop knows what they're doing.

--
meb

I thought the left-hand/righthand thread thing was kind of
counter-intuitive, thus meaning that you had to left-hand thread the RIGHT
crank. Or have I double bluffed myself? I'm an utter noob with bikes,

only

Quoted message said:

started riding again a few months back.

I'm really impressed with how smart and knowledgable you are. You
ought to open your own store so you can be smarter than everyone who
comes in and let everyone know it. You can give them a bike shop
knowledge test to see if they are worthy of being your customer.

Eagle Jackson said:

I'm really impressed with how smart and knowledgable you are. You
ought to open your own store so you can be smarter than everyone who
comes in and let everyone know it. You can give them a bike shop
knowledge test to see if they are worthy of being your customer.

This is how many bike shop owners go into, and later out of, business.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Eagle Jackson said:

I'm really impressed with how smart and knowledgable you are. You
ought to open your own store so you can be smarter than everyone who
comes in and let everyone know it. You can give them a bike shop
knowledge test to see if they are worthy of being your customer.

This is how many bike shop owners go into, and later out of, business.

Yup, I've been in more than one shop like that. Didn't go back if there
was any alternative at all.

Mark Janeba

otter said:

Whups...I'm thinking of bearing cups in the bottom bracket, right?

A non sequitur. . . and top posted to boot!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ronsonic said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

Wheatstraw said:

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

I wasn't condescending in the slightest.

I was however not really pleased that when it comes to
a matter of safety they don't know the means of ensuring
that the replacement part is the correct size.

In what way does asking about an unused system of measurement help test that.

It's not unused. I used it. For what it's used for.
Because any other system can easily get me the wrong thing
in a number of cases I don't want to leave to chance.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The ISO system ensures your bead will be seated, and covers
all makes of wheels.

Like the counter guy designs the tires? Measures them with a micrometer to make
sure they're actually the size that's printed on the sidewall? I don't get it.

Ask for a 27" and that's what you'll get.

Go read Sheldon's website. It's not always.

Quoted message said:

Request 700C and you'll receive one of
those. Ask for a 622mm and expect to get looked at oddly. We've already got
enough sizes, why confuse the issue by wanting more names for the sizes we've
already got.

I want the size that matters: 630 mm at the bead.
After that, it's a matter of selecting a tire height.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When did 700C (622) extinct 27" (630) anyway? (Remember,
I had an accident with radioactive isotopes and spent 12
years in a cryovac bag in the frozen-vegetables section of
my local supermarket instead of out in the sunshine riding
my bike, so a few crucially important cultural phenomena
may have passed me by).

700C goes right onto the same bike and brakes as tubular rims.

700C tubular rims, no doubt.

--Blair
"Jeez. Try to disambiguate something
and you end up being the only country
in the world without the metric system..."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm really impressed with how smart and knowledgable you are. You
ought to open your own store so you can be smarter than everyone who
comes in and let everyone know it. You can give them a bike shop
knowledge test to see if they are worthy of being your customer.

This is how many bike shop owners go into, and later out of, business.

Yup, I've been in more than one shop like that. Didn't go back if there
was any alternative at all.

There are (or is at least one) distributors like that as well. This one
place is often the supplier-of-last-resort for certain older high-end items,
but just try to get one of my people to call them up. Almost impossible,
because of the way they're treated on the phone. Unbelievable how much
money they leave on the table, just because of their attitude.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

There are (or is at least one) distributors like that as well. This
one place is often the supplier-of-last-resort for certain older
high-end items, but just try to get one of my people to call them up.
Almost impossible, because of the way they're treated on the phone.
Unbelievable how much money they leave on the table, just because of
their attitude.

Care to share which one?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are (or is at least one) distributors like that as well. This
one place is often the supplier-of-last-resort for certain older
high-end items, but just try to get one of my people to call them up.
Almost impossible, because of the way they're treated on the phone.
Unbelievable how much money they leave on the table, just because of
their attitude.

Care to share which one?

No way, may still have to deal with them for something desperate!
Originally I was going to mention the approximate location of the supplier,
but edited that out too. Just can't be too careful these days... even
though I know rec.bicycles.tech is like Las Vegas. You know- what's said
here, stays here. No chance it would leak out when it's just among friends,
right? :>😉

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Blair P. Houghton said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was however not really pleased that when it comes to
a matter of safety they don't know the means of ensuring
that the replacement part is the correct size.

In what way does asking about an unused system of measurement help test that.

It's not unused. I used it. For what it's used for.
Because any other system can easily get me the wrong thing
in a number of cases I don't want to leave to chance.

Quoted message said:

--Blair
"Jeez. Try to disambiguate something
and you end up being the only country
in the world without the metric system..."

How much is .3785 decaliters of milk at your local grocery store? Do
you also not shop where the clerk can't answer this simple question?

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

Mike J-I get spammed blocked when I send ya an e-mail..can I get on your super
secret list?

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Mike J-I get spammed blocked when I send ya an e-mail..can I get on your super
secret list?

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"