Bike Shop knowledge test

Quoted message said:

Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

And they may just think you're one more turkey who's looking for a "28-inch
tire" and clueless. Get them all the time, people who read off the first
number on the tire (or perhaps it's the second one) and, since it's
recognizable as something close to "27 inch" (which they grew up with), they
assume it's the tire diameter.

There will always be people who are newer or simply less-experienced in such
things at a bike shop. So what? That's the case for just about anything in
life. The question is not whether you can find a "droid" who doesn't know
what you're talking about, but rather if there's anybody at all there who
can be of help. Chances are there is.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)

Quoted message said:

if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

And they may just think you're one more turkey who's looking for a "28-inch
tire" and clueless. Get them all the time, people who read off the first
number on the tire (or perhaps it's the second one) and, since it's
recognizable as something close to "27 inch" (which they grew up with), they
assume it's the tire diameter.

There will always be people who are newer or simply less-experienced in such
things at a bike shop. So what? That's the case for just about anything in
life. The question is not whether you can find a "droid" who doesn't know
what you're talking about, but rather if there's anybody at all there who
can be of help. Chances are there is.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Just because the shop owner (who may be tied up with two or three other customers) in the repair section knows ISO sizing doesn't help if the people in the parts area give you the wrong ISO sized part and convinces you you that's what you need and you don't realize it till you're home or until you've had a flat from using the wrong sized item. Even if you get the most knowledgable person in the shop, you may still get a statement such as all our 20" tires will fit your rim.

Have this happen a few times and it will teach you to learn the ISO system yourself. Think how many others wind up with wrong items from these Druids.

Ask a shop if they can left hand thread helicoil a left crank, I've seen one shop ask what's a helicoil, another say helicoilling won't be strong enough for cranks, and another say we do it all the time and it'l be stronger than the original thread. That shows there is a wide disparity in the knowledge and service quality from shop to shop.

Blair's suggestion is a pretty good quick barometer for determining whether this shop knows what they're doing.

meb wrote:
-snip-

Quoted message said:

Ask a shop if they can left hand thread helicoil a left crank, I've
seen one shop ask what's a helicoil, another say helicoilling won't be
strong enough for cranks, and another say we do it all the time and
it'l be stronger than the original thread. That shows there is a wide
disparity in the knowledge and service quality from shop to shop.

That's a good question. Left arms are generally cheaper
than the repair service

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Blair P. Houghton :

Quoted message said:

Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

Ah, yes. The customer who gets a kick out of showing that they
know something that the guy at the shop doesn't know. I work at
a shop, and you know what? I probably get at least one customer
every day who could talk rings around me about things that just
haven't come up in my experience. They're older than I am and
simply have a longer history upon which to draw. I also get
about fifty customers who need my help. I don't talk down to
those people, I don't try to make them feel bad if they don't
have a particular piece of technical knowledge, and if I don't
know the answer to their question, I say so and go look it up.
I politely share what I know with those who need it, and it
would be great if you would extend that attitude as well.
It's not a contest.

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

Tobias

Wheatstraw-<< Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these. >><BR><BR>

No kiddin...retail, the best and worse job there is. It is enjoyable at times
but it sure isn't 'fun'....

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Yeah boy, I tell ya ... what a bunch of bozos.

The guy that sweeps up at my local bike shop can't tell a left-handed
monkey wrench from a metric crescent wrench!

Wheatstraw said:

Blair P. Houghton :

Quoted message said:

Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

Ah, yes. The customer who gets a kick out of showing that they
know something that the guy at the shop doesn't know. I work at
a shop, and you know what? I probably get at least one customer
every day who could talk rings around me about things that just
haven't come up in my experience. They're older than I am and
simply have a longer history upon which to draw. I also get
about fifty customers who need my help. I don't talk down to
those people, I don't try to make them feel bad if they don't
have a particular piece of technical knowledge, and if I don't
know the answer to their question, I say so and go look it up.
I politely share what I know with those who need it, and it
would be great if you would extend that attitude as well.
It's not a contest.

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

Well said. We used to get these guys from time to time. The funniest
was when I had people who wanted to "school" me on "carbon fiber". At
the time I had just finished my BS in chemical engineering and had
plenty of classes on polymers and composite materials. Of course what
these guys read in a magazine made them more "expert" than some kid in a
bike shop.

well said!

Wheatstraw said:

Blair P. Houghton :

Quoted message said:

Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

Ah, yes. The customer who gets a kick out of showing that they
know something that the guy at the shop doesn't know. I work at
a shop, and you know what? I probably get at least one customer
every day who could talk rings around me about things that just
haven't come up in my experience. They're older than I am and
simply have a longer history upon which to draw. I also get
about fifty customers who need my help. I don't talk down to
those people, I don't try to make them feel bad if they don't
have a particular piece of technical knowledge, and if I don't
know the answer to their question, I say so and go look it up.
I politely share what I know with those who need it, and it
would be great if you would extend that attitude as well.
It's not a contest.

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

Tobias

"Wheatstraw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Blair P. Houghton :

Quoted message said:

Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

Ah, yes. The customer who gets a kick out of showing that they
know something that the guy at the shop doesn't know. I work at
a shop, and you know what? I probably get at least one customer
every day who could talk rings around me about things that just
haven't come up in my experience. They're older than I am and
simply have a longer history upon which to draw. I also get
about fifty customers who need my help. I don't talk down to
those people, I don't try to make them feel bad if they don't
have a particular piece of technical knowledge, and if I don't
know the answer to their question, I say so and go look it up.
I politely share what I know with those who need it, and it
would be great if you would extend that attitude as well.
It's not a contest.

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

Tobias

Tobias: You're the kind of guy I would have hired in a second when I had a
motorcycle shop!

I wonder about these 'knowledgeable' posters and their performance on their
jobs. Particularly if they have to interact with others.

meb said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Have this happen a few times and it will teach you to learn the ISO
system yourself. Think how many others wind up with wrong items from
these Druids.

Quoted message said:

Blair's suggestion is a pretty good quick barometer for determining
whether this shop knows what they're doing.

Why would you expect a druid to know anything about bicycles?
Seeing as druids are an order of priests in ancient Gaul and Britain
who appear in Welsh and Irish legend as prophets and sorcerers.

I have found the employees at my LBS to have varying degrees of
expertese, but they all have enthusiasm and seem willing to learn.
Quizing someone to test their knowledge, doesn't really help the
people that a lack of knowledge effects.
Now if you do it in such a way that you teach them something, then it
will be helpful in the future.

The LBS is not the enemy, they can and should be your friend.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Blair P. Houghton said:

Go into your LBS and ask the droid near the tires (tyres)
if they have any "28-630 tires". Ask them if they have
any "23-622's" too, just in case.

I actually had a dude who looked like he knew his way around
a crank call the ISO sizing system "the technical details"
of tire nomenclature...

Hmmm. I think I'll antagonize my dentist before my next root canal. Put
him in his place but good.

Bill "buy what you need and shut up about it" S.

Wheatstraw said:

Blair P. Houghton :

Quoted message said:

Ah, yes. The customer who gets a kick out of showing that they
know something that the guy at the shop doesn't know. I work at
a shop, and you know what? I probably get at least one customer
every day who could talk rings around me about things that just
haven't come up in my experience. They're older than I am and
simply have a longer history upon which to draw. I also get
about fifty customers who need my help. I don't talk down to
those people, I don't try to make them feel bad if they don't
have a particular piece of technical knowledge, and if I don't
know the answer to their question, I say so and go look it up.
I politely share what I know with those who need it, and it
would be great if you would extend that attitude as well.
It's not a contest.

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

Tobias

Great post Tobias! Thanks, most of us don't fret if we know more about something than the folks at the LBS.

In message <[email hidden]>, EZ
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Yeah boy, I tell ya ... what a bunch of bozos.

The guy that sweeps up at my local bike shop can't tell a left-handed
monkey wrench from a metric crescent wrench!

I recently went into a succession of LBS 's to try and get some brake
levers suitable for non V brakes as I was converting a training bike
from drops to flats.

I told the shop staff exactly what I was doing in each case and that the
existing brakes were Shimano dual pivot RX100.

Out of 8 shops.

1 knew what I wanted but had no suitable stock.

4 tried to sell me V brake levers saying they would work OK.

1 suggested I get canti bosses welded on my frame so I could use V
brakes!!!?**?!

3 had no clue as to what I was talking about.

The final one went and rooted around in the back store and came out with
a pair of Richey's which were exactly what I wanted, at a very
reasonable price 10 UKP.

I had some knowledge of what I wanted - how would a less informed member
of the public have got on?

The lawyers could have been laughing all the way to the bank if I had
bought and fitted some of the suggestions.

It does not give me much faith in any LBS.

John

--
John B Wilkinson

Quoted message said:

Ah, yes. The customer who gets a kick out of showing that they
know something that the guy at the shop doesn't know. I work at
a shop,

Me too.

Quoted message said:

know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

Hear, hear! Fortunately, I live in a college town where most don't have
extensive bicycle knowledge, and freewheel issues are abundant.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Wheatstraw said:

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

I wasn't condescending in the slightest.

I was however not really pleased that when it comes to
a matter of safety they don't know the means of ensuring
that the replacement part is the correct size.

The ISO system ensures your bead will be seated, and covers
all makes of wheels.

When did 700C (622) extinct 27" (630) anyway? (Remember,
I had an accident with radioactive isotopes and spent 12
years in a cryovac bag in the frozen-vegetables section of
my local supermarket instead of out in the sunshine riding
my bike, so a few crucially important cultural phenomena
may have passed me by).

And I was not pleased at all that they had zero 622-sized
tires, but a whole stack of 27-inch tubes...and this is
one of the two biggest bike shops in the state.

--Blair
"Hate the French. Love their fries, though."

li0scc0 said:

Great post Tobias! Thanks, most of us don't fret if we know more about
something than the folks at the LBS.

Love all the ditto-heads waiting for someone to stick
up for the lowly shop-girls of the world.

Too bad Tobias totally misread my post.

--Blair
"Retail makes people defensive."

Quoted message said:

The ISO system ensures your bead will be seated, and covers
all makes of wheels.

No, all the ISO system does is take the guesswork out of such things as
whether your 26 x 1/38 tire is an EA3, S1, S6 or whatever. There's no
safety issue involved, as the wrong size simply won't work (well, OK, I do
recall people trying to force a 590 tire onto a 597 rim and wondering why
they put all those holes into the tire with screwdrivers as they pried it
into place...).

So I agree that the ISO is a better system, but its lack of adoption
universally, or even a shop employee's not knowing about it, is not required
to get the right tire in your example. You could have asked for 27" or 700C
and had no problem whatsoever... pretty much anywhere you go.

If you wanted to pick a better example (of a place where the ISO system
works greatly to reduce confusion), try 26x1. That's where 559 (650c) vs
571 (mtn bike) is a really good thing to know. There's no way you can mix
up those tires (not possible to fit the mtn bike tire onto the 650 wheel,
and the other way around it's so loose that you can't possibly even think it
would work, much less get air into the tube long enough for you to jump on
the bike and go anywhere).

Quoted message said:

When did 700C (622) extinct 27" (630) anyway? (Remember,
I had an accident with radioactive isotopes and spent 12
years in a cryovac bag in the frozen-vegetables section of
my local supermarket instead of out in the sunshine riding
my bike, so a few crucially important cultural phenomena
may have passed me by).

The hybrid bike pretty much killed off the remnants of the 27" world,
probably about the time you got sealed into that vacuum bag. It wasn't a
big deal, as better road bikes always had 700c wheels, and the
department-store versions (with 27" wheels) became extinct, in favor of
mountain bikes. Hybrids, for whatever reason, pretty much started off with
700c and things just carried on from there.

Quoted message said:

And I was not pleased at all that they had zero 622-sized
tires, but a whole stack of 27-inch tubes...and this is
one of the two biggest bike shops in the state.

This is sounding more and more like a troll, but I'll answer anyway. Did
they have 700c-marked tires that you felt should have said 622? And did the
27" tubes really not have a 700c designation as well?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wheatstraw said:

Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops, you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these.

I wasn't condescending in the slightest.

I was however not really pleased that when it comes to
a matter of safety they don't know the means of ensuring
that the replacement part is the correct size.

The ISO system ensures your bead will be seated, and covers
all makes of wheels.

When did 700C (622) extinct 27" (630) anyway? (Remember,
I had an accident with radioactive isotopes and spent 12
years in a cryovac bag in the frozen-vegetables section of
my local supermarket instead of out in the sunshine riding
my bike, so a few crucially important cultural phenomena
may have passed me by).

And I was not pleased at all that they had zero 622-sized
tires, but a whole stack of 27-inch tubes...and this is
one of the two biggest bike shops in the state.

--Blair
"Hate the French. Love their fries, though."

Quoted message said:

Wheatstraw-<< Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops,
you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these. >><BR><BR>

No kiddin...retail, the best and worse job there is. It is enjoyable at
times
but it sure isn't 'fun'....

But what about our lengthy paid vacations, paid medical insurance,
retirement plans paid for by the company, opportunities for promotion,
weekends free...

Oh wait, that was my last job, 26 years ago before I decided to be a bike
shop owner.

Thank goodness I derive an extreme amount of pleasure from getting people
onto bikes (and keeping them on them down the road). Otherwise I'd turn
into a cranky old guy like a few I know of in this industry...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wheatstraw-<< Droid. Very nice. Most of us don't have to work at shops,
you
know. We have degrees and training that would let us earn a lot
more money in a lot more stable setting, but we love working in
shops. Even when we have to deal with condescending attitudes
like these. >><BR><BR>

No kiddin...retail, the best and worse job there is. It is enjoyable at
times
but it sure isn't 'fun'....

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

A Muzi said:

meb wrote:
-snip-

Quoted message said:

Ask a shop if they can left hand thread helicoil a left crank, I've
seen one shop ask what's a helicoil, another say helicoilling won't be
strong enough for cranks, and another say we do it all the time and
it'l be stronger than the original thread. That shows there is a wide
disparity in the knowledge and service quality from shop to shop.

That's a good question. Left arms are generally cheaper
than the repair service

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I was quoted $18 on the phone for the helicoiling at a very reliable shop unfortunately 18 miles away vs. $30 for the new crank arm available at many shops located nearby.