Blue Cross Blue Shield Advertising

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Appropriate for the relatively recent threads about doctors and their
relationship with health insurance companies here in the U.S. was a
near-full page newspaper ad by BCBS a patient showed me today...

the hundreds of dollars in monthly health insurance premiums you are
paying...

is going to *advertising*.

Gee, what major catastrophy will befall the American Populace next? Will
Coke or McDonald's start advertising? Heaven forefend. In order to stay in biz
in a competetive market they have to advertise. Why is this such a shock?
Actually I have more problem with the local county general advertising
using tax monies. Of course, I realize part of that is to possibly get some
actual paying customers in the door instead of the current 90%
Mcare/Mcaid/Indigent case mix they now have.

----
"There was an exponential rise in the use of the
apples and oranges metaphor over the last 20 years followed
by the inevitable tail off. When researchers tried to find a
reason for the tail-off, they noted the same thing was seen
in the NASDAQ yearly closing prices for the same time period."

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Appropriate for the relatively recent threads about doctors and their
relationship with health insurance companies here in the U.S. was a
near-full page newspaper ad by BCBS a patient showed me today...

the hundreds of dollars in monthly health insurance premiums you are
paying...

is going to *advertising*.

<shrug> Around here, hospitals, insurance companies, and even individual
doctors advertise in the newspaper all the time. Insurance companies also
buy billboards and TV time. Hardly a Sunday edition can be found without a
doctor's photo adorning 1/4th the page, sometimes 1/2.

Carey Gregory said:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Appropriate for the relatively recent threads about doctors and their
relationship with health insurance companies here in the U.S. was a
near-full page newspaper ad by BCBS a patient showed me today...

the hundreds of dollars in monthly health insurance premiums you are
paying...

is going to *advertising*.

<shrug> Around here, hospitals, insurance companies, and even individual
doctors advertise in the newspaper all the time.

Not around here.

Quoted message said:

Insurance companies also
buy billboards and TV time.

You have to wonder about that and it's impact on rising healthcare costs in
your area.

Quoted message said:

Hardly a Sunday edition can be found without a
doctor's photo adorning 1/4th the page, sometimes 1/2.

That would be quite the spectacle around here.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Atlanta Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Kurt Ullman wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gee, what major catastrophy will befall the American Populace next?

You're missing the point.

No I am not. Why shouldn't BC/BS be advertising? If it is like here it falls
into two categories. (1). The annual big companies/governmental signups where
people have an actual choice of plans, coverages and providers or (2). for
individual policies. Again where people have a need to know you provide the
service.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Will
Coke or McDonald's start advertising?

They already do. The relevant question is will the other health insurance
companies follow suit with their own ads.

Gee must be nice in Atlanta. For at least the last 15 years in Indy we have
BC/BS, Maxicare (before it went [censored] up), MPlan and a whole bunch of others
advertising a couple of times a year when the Feds, Lilly, GM, Ford, Chrysler,
et al. have their member signups. They already do in many markets.

Quoted message said:

They stayed in biz before w/o advertising... why now?

See above, at least in Indy. As for now, they can't make their jack on
their investments and they have to actually do it by underwriting so they need
to jack up the number both for more money and to spread the risk of big losses
around a little more. This is at least the third cycle I have seen since the
mid-70s, happens every time.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually I have more problem with the local county general advertising
using tax monies.

What is your county advertising?

The hospital, how neat it is, how really cool their maternity department is,
how they are a teaching hospital, etc. etc.

----
"There was an exponential rise in the use of the
apples and oranges metaphor over the last 20 years followed
by the inevitable tail off. When researchers tried to find a
reason for the tail-off, they noted the same thing was seen
in the NASDAQ yearly closing prices for the same time period."

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

You have to wonder about that and it's impact on rising healthcare costs in
your area.

Why? You really think a few $ in ads budgets really makes a dent in the
trillions of healthcare dollars being spent? They could spend like GM and
still make it less than a % of a % of healthcare costs.

----
"There was an exponential rise in the use of the
apples and oranges metaphor over the last 20 years followed
by the inevitable tail off. When researchers tried to find a
reason for the tail-off, they noted the same thing was seen
in the NASDAQ yearly closing prices for the same time period."

Kurt Ullman said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually I have more problem with the local county general advertising
using tax monies.

What is your county advertising?

The hospital, how neat it is, how really cool their maternity department is,
how they are a teaching hospital, etc. etc.

What is the difference between a health institution (whether county general or
health insurance company) using your tax monies versus premium monies for
advertising?

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Atlanta Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

Kurt Ullman said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

They have been for-profit for at least 5 years.

In the interest of accuracy, some BC/BS still are NFP. A couple of states
haven't allowed them to demutualize or whatever it is that health insurers do.
Can't remember which ones right off, but for some reason NJ sticks in my
mind.

Quoted message said:

By signing on more premium paying people. Imo, one needs to be wary of
insurance
companies that advertise.

YOu feel the same about prop and casualty and car insurance?

Actually I do.

Quoted message said:

Why is medicine
different?

It isn't really, imo.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Atlanta Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

`In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Kurt Ullman said:

Quoted message said:

> Actually I have more problem with the local county general advertising
> using tax monies.

What is your county advertising?

The hospital, how neat it is, how really cool their maternity department

is,

Quoted message said:

how they are a teaching hospital, etc. etc.

What is the difference between a health institution (whether county general or
health insurance company) using your tax monies versus premium monies for
advertising?

If I don't like the insurance company spending the money in this
fashion I can go look for one that doesn't. If I decide to do the same with my
taxes, men in brown uniforms carrying guns come to my door and start kicking
me out of my house.

----
"There was an exponential rise in the use of the
apples and oranges metaphor over the last 20 years followed
by the inevitable tail off. When researchers tried to find a
reason for the tail-off, they noted the same thing was seen
in the NASDAQ yearly closing prices for the same time period."

In article <[email hidden]>, "Steve Harris"

Quoted message said:

I'll bet Andrew really really hates the "Beef: it's what's
for dinner" commercials with the Aaron Copeland music. Paid
for by your taxes going to fund the USDA Ad Council.

No, actually that is funded by through a check off system of beef
producers. IIRC, the check off isn't terribly voluntary. It is funneled
through the USDA, but the no tax monies are involved, unless you count the
check off as a tax and beef farmers.
For more than any rational non-farmer would want to know,
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mpb/beef/beefchk.htm

----
"There was an exponential rise in the use of the
apples and oranges metaphor over the last 20 years followed
by the inevitable tail off. When researchers tried to find a
reason for the tail-off, they noted the same thing was seen
in the NASDAQ yearly closing prices for the same time period."

[email hidden] (Kurt Ullman) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

`In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Kurt Ullman said:

>> Actually I have more problem with the local county general advertising
>> using tax monies.
>
>What is your county advertising?
The hospital, how neat it is, how really cool their maternity department

is,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

how they are a teaching hospital, etc. etc.

What is the difference between a health institution (whether county general or
health insurance company) using your tax monies versus premium monies for
advertising?

If I don't like the insurance company spending the money in this
fashion I can go look for one that doesn't.

Not that easy if you are employed in a large company and your premiums
are paid by your employer.

Quoted message said:

If I decide to do the same with my
taxes, men in brown uniforms carrying guns come to my door and start kicking
me out of my house.

You could move to a different county.

Regards,

Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Appropriate for the relatively recent threads about doctors and their
relationship with health insurance companies here in the U.S. was a
near-full page newspaper ad by BCBS a patient showed me today...

the hundreds of dollars in monthly health insurance premiums you are
paying...

is going to *advertising*.

A word to the wise.

Regards,

Andrew

Your assumption that advertising is 100% wasteful requires support.
Can you provide evidence that medical advertising is not informative
and does not contribute to better consumer choice or have positive
competitive effects, or does not contribute to improved outcomes?

Reflect on the better moustrap....

js

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Not that easy if you are employed in a large company and your premiums
are paid by your employer.

Every large employer I have worked for (A couple of universities, Corning
Glass, a few hospitals, GM, the State of Indiana and Ft. Wayne City, all have
had at least three options. I would think the smaller employers would be the
problem.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I decide to do the same with my
taxes, men in brown uniforms carrying guns come to my door and start kicking
me out of my house.

You could move to a different county.

True. And I did for other reasons.

----
"There was an exponential rise in the use of the
apples and oranges metaphor over the last 20 years followed
by the inevitable tail off. When researchers tried to find a
reason for the tail-off, they noted the same thing was seen
in the NASDAQ yearly closing prices for the same time period."

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

the hundreds of dollars in monthly health insurance premiums you are
paying...

I am less concerned about a non-profit spending a few bucks for
advertising than I am about a for-profit company in which 10 to 20 %
of your premiums go straight to the bottom line and not for health
care.

Jonathan Smith said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Appropriate for the relatively recent threads about doctors and their
relationship with health insurance companies here in the U.S. was a
near-full page newspaper ad by BCBS a patient showed me today...

the hundreds of dollars in monthly health insurance premiums you are
paying...

is going to *advertising*.

A word to the wise.

Regards,

Andrew

Your assumption that advertising is 100% wasteful requires support.

Not really when I make no such assumption.

Quoted message said:

Can you provide evidence that medical advertising is not informative
and does not contribute to better consumer choice or have positive
competitive effects, or does not contribute to improved outcomes?

The burden is on the insurance company who is spending your health dollars on advertising to prove that this is a
worthwhile expense.

Quoted message said:

Reflect on the better moustrap....

.... the world beats a path to your door for it because it is a better mousetrap... not because folks like the
advertising.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Atlanta Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

Bean@counter. said:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

the hundreds of dollars in monthly health insurance premiums you are
paying...

I am less concerned about a non-profit spending a few bucks for
advertising than I am about a for-profit company in which 10 to 20 %
of your premiums go straight to the bottom line and not for health
care.

BCBS here is for-profit.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Atlanta Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

The burden is on the insurance company who is spending your health dollars on
advertising to prove that this is a
worthwhile expense.

Actually there is no burden on the insurance company. It can make the
expense and it is up to the individual consumer to decide if they like the
idea or not and if they dislike enough to vote with their feet.

Quoted message said:

.... the world beats a path to your door for it because it is a better
mousetrap... not because folks like the
advertising.

Many a better mousetrap has languished until the advertising let people
know it is there.

----
"There was an exponential rise in the use of the
apples and oranges metaphor over the last 20 years followed
by the inevitable tail off. When researchers tried to find a
reason for the tail-off, they noted the same thing was seen
in the NASDAQ yearly closing prices for the same time period."

Kurt Ullman said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

The burden is on the insurance company who is spending your health dollars on
advertising to prove that this is a
worthwhile expense.

Actually there is no burden on the insurance company. It can make the
expense and it is up to the individual consumer to decide if they like the
idea or not and if they dislike enough to vote with their feet.

The is more burden on the insurance company than on me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.... the world beats a path to your door for it because it is a better
mousetrap... not because folks like the
advertising.

Many a better mousetrap has languished until the advertising let people
know it is there.

The converse is also true. Many worthless dysfunctional mousetraps collect dust
in the corner while mice are left ROFLing because advertising convinced us to buy
them.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Atlanta Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Ok, so medical advertising in rampant in your community. Why is that?

Competition, I would assume. CT has no shortage of doctors, and larger
hospitals are always rushing around trying to buy-up smaller hospitals
before their competition does. In Hartford, for example, St. Francis and
Hartford Hospital are the two major facilities. Located about 3 miles apart
in the city center, they're constantly battling for market share. The two
of them account for most of the advertising I see.

Carey Gregory said:

Around here, hospitals, insurance companies, and even individual
doctors advertise in the newspaper all the time. Insurance companies also
buy billboards and TV time. Hardly a Sunday edition can be found without a
doctor's photo adorning 1/4th the page, sometimes 1/2.

So, are you going to put up your money or run away?

$10,000 says Chung and I are not the same person.

You up for it? I mean, it was you that made that claim.