brain drain at rbt...

"Crescentius Vespasianus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure some
day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question, and the
only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new bike?" At
least there is the archives, that's usually where I search first. It's
sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is no longer
valued. Only money fixes everything now.

For some people, maybe. But take hope - there are still people around who
value knowledge and the nous required to make something work, even if it may
appear simpler to just but a new one.

(or get somebody from one of the poorer countries - lack of money is a
strong incentive to learning to fix things.)

However there's also the issue that mechanical things are improving, and
with them, reliability. Combine this with the ease of communication provided
by the internet, and you not only have fewer problems, but many of them have
well defined solutions which are already there - leaving people interested
in such things with little to do but bicker.

Which brings us neatly back to what I guess prompted your post - Sheldon's
efforts have been a major part of this. It will be interesting to see who
will pick up the torch.

cheers,
clive

-snip-

Clive George said:

However there's also the issue that mechanical things are improving, and
with them, reliability.

Or frequently, just new problems.

Quoted message said:

Combine this with the ease of communication
provided by the internet, and you not only have fewer problems, but many
of them have well defined solutions which are already there - leaving
people interested in such things with little to do but bicker.-snip-

There's always that.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Clive says

Quoted message said:

Sheldon's efforts have been a major part of this. It
will be interesting to see who will pick up the
torch.

Maybe Atlas?

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

"Crescentius Vespasianus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure some
day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question, and the
only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new bike?" At
least there is the archives, that's usually where I search first. It's
sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is no longer
valued. Only money fixes everything now.

It's not just a product issue, it's communication. People don't want to be
bothered, or they simply don't have the skills, to properly explain
something, *or* listen. It takes too long. Anything that takes longer than a
60-second commercial (which just happens to take... 60 seconds!) is too much
bother.

But everything balances out, which explains why some usenet posts are miles
& miles long, trying to explain a dreadfully simple concept, and never quite
figuring out that the person at the other end lost interest many paragraphs
prior.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Quoted message said:

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure some
day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question, and the
only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new bike?" At
least there is the archives, that's usually where I search first. It's
sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is no longer
valued. Only money fixes everything now.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

It's not just a product issue, it's communication. People don't want to be
bothered, or they simply don't have the skills, to properly explain
something, *or* listen. It takes too long. Anything that takes longer than a
60-second commercial (which just happens to take... 60 seconds!) is too much
bother.

But everything balances out, which explains why some usenet posts are miles
& miles long, trying to explain a dreadfully simple concept, and never quite
figuring out that the person at the other end lost interest many paragraphs
prior.

Just like real life!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Feb 6, 8:28 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of
rbt are going away.  I'm sure some day
I'll see someone will write a "how do
you fix this" question, and the only
coherent reply will be, "can't you
afford to buy a new bike?"  At least
there is the archives, that's usually
where I search first.  It's sad, but we
are in a disposable society, and
knowledge is no longer valued.  Only
money fixes everything now.

can't ypou afford Prozac?

On Feb 6, 6:28 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of
rbt are going away. I'm sure some day
I'll see someone will write a "how do
you fix this" question, and the only
coherent reply will be, "can't you
afford to buy a new bike?" At least
there is the archives, that's usually
where I search first. It's sad, but we
are in a disposable society, and
knowledge is no longer valued. Only
money fixes everything now.

I think that there are still good sources of info that I can rely on.
Peter, Mike, Andrew and Jobst are pretty reliable. Once in a while
Gene comes along and then I need to get a secret text decoder to
figure out if the content had any practical value, if it was purely
poetic, or if a door to a different dimension opened up and let some
text enter into the newsgroup. Gene is the uncertainty principle
manifested at the macro level. Other times jb pops up in the middle of
a discussion with some diatribe against JB which usually does not add
any value to the discussion but makes me feel like drinking some jb.

So basically I think that you can get some good and useful information
as long as you can figure out what is valuable. Its like trying to
figure out what real news is. There are some sources out there but
they are all mixed in with the junk.

Andres

Clive George said:

"Crescentius Vespasianus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure
some day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question,
and the only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new
bike?" At least there is the archives, that's usually where I search
first. It's sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is
no longer valued. Only money fixes everything now.

For some people, maybe. But take hope - there are still people around
who value knowledge and the nous required to make something work, even
if it may appear simpler to just but a new one.

(or get somebody from one of the poorer countries - lack of money is a
strong incentive to learning to fix things.)

However there's also the issue that mechanical things are improving, and
with them, reliability. Combine this with the ease of communication
provided by the internet, and you not only have fewer problems, but many
of them have well defined solutions which are already there - leaving
people interested in such things with little to do but bicker.

Which brings us neatly back to what I guess prompted your post -
Sheldon's efforts have been a major part of this. It will be interesting
to see who will pick up the torch.

cheers,
clive

We walk in the footprints of those who have gone before us.
When the "net" first started all the bike questions were new, and bit by
bit, (parden the digital pun,) a collective knowledge base was built,
including Sheldons website. Now we don't need to ask the question on
r.b.t because we can find it already on the net or by trawling through
old r.b.t postings. The only drawback is that we now tend to discuss
opinions as all the facts have generally been established, (excepting
helmet effectiveness of course).

On Feb 6, 7:28 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of
rbt are going away.

Bull [censored]. The minutia of bicycles is much more known than ever. While
we may not ever replace the dear iconoclast Sheldon (may the FSM
forgive that beard dye), the craft has been reseeded the world over
due to his web site. It's Sheldon who convinced me to build wheels
without fancy tools using only a ruler, a bicycle and a spoke wrench,
and to respace frames with lumber and kitchen chairs. The expertise
that I have in bar tape chirality, that's natural skill, except for
the word "chirality" which I learned from Madison's own A. Muzi.

Yes, we may lose some generational skills like nailing on cleats and
brushing tubies en route--but how many of you value the skill required
in wiring on an ordinary tire?

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure some
day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question, and
the only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new bike?"
At least there is the archives, that's usually where I search first.
It's sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is no longer
valued. Only money fixes everything now.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

It's not just a product issue, it's communication. People don't want to
be bothered, or they simply don't have the skills, to properly explain
something, *or* listen. It takes too long. Anything that takes longer
than a 60-second commercial (which just happens to take... 60 seconds!)
is too much bother.

But everything balances out, which explains why some usenet posts are
miles & miles long, trying to explain a dreadfully simple concept, and
never quite figuring out that the person at the other end lost interest
many paragraphs prior.

Just like real life!
Andrew Muzi

It.... isn't?

By the way, I just got out of your neck of the woods yesterday. I was
originally scheduled to leave Madison (for ORD-SFO) tonight (Wednesday), but
saw the weather report yesterday (Tuesday) and thought maybe I'd best get to
the Madison airport ASAP and see if I could get out before the worst hit.
Yikes, it was like the fall of Saigon! I got on the very last flight out to
Denver, and from there to San Francisco. Looks like everything got cancelled
today until early this evening. We have it so easy in California...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

on 7-2-2008, Crescentius Vespasianus supposed :

Quoted message said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure some day
I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question, and the only
coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new bike?" At least there
is the archives, that's usually where I search first. It's sad, but we are
in a disposable society, and knowledge is no longer valued. Only money fixes
everything now.

Time for a bikewiki maybe?

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Crescentius Vespasianus" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure some
> day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question, and
> the only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new bike?"
> At least there is the archives, that's usually where I search first.
> It's sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is no longer
> valued. Only money fixes everything now.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

It's not just a product issue, it's communication. People don't want to
be bothered, or they simply don't have the skills, to properly explain
something, *or* listen. It takes too long. Anything that takes longer
than a 60-second commercial (which just happens to take... 60 seconds!)
is too much bother.

But everything balances out, which explains why some usenet posts are
miles & miles long, trying to explain a dreadfully simple concept, and
never quite figuring out that the person at the other end lost interest
many paragraphs prior.

Just like real life!
Andrew Muzi

It.... isn't?

By the way, I just got out of your neck of the woods yesterday. I was
originally scheduled to leave Madison (for ORD-SFO) tonight (Wednesday), but
saw the weather report yesterday (Tuesday) and thought maybe I'd best get to
the Madison airport ASAP and see if I could get out before the worst hit.
Yikes, it was like the fall of Saigon! I got on the very last flight out to
Denver, and from there to San Francisco. Looks like everything got cancelled
today until early this evening. We have it so easy in California...

Oh come on, it was only 35 cm of snow.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

By the way, I just got out of your neck of the woods yesterday. I was
originally scheduled to leave Madison (for ORD-SFO) tonight (Wednesday),
but saw the weather report yesterday (Tuesday) and thought maybe I'd best
get to the Madison airport ASAP and see if I could get out before the
worst hit. Yikes, it was like the fall of Saigon! I got on the very last
flight out to Denver, and from there to San Francisco. Looks like
everything got cancelled today until early this evening. We have it so
easy in California...

Oh come on, it was only 35 cm of snow.

Um, actually, I was being rather kind by not pointing that out. It really
didn't seem like all that much snow that was shutting everything down
(although I'm told it was considerably worse today). But what the heck,
we've got an airport that pretty much shuts down with the slightest amount
of fog.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> "Crescentius Vespasianus" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure
>> some day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question,
>> and the only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new
>> bike?" At least there is the archives, that's usually where I search
>> first. It's sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is
>> no longer valued. Only money fixes everything now.
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> It's not just a product issue, it's communication. People don't want to
> be bothered, or they simply don't have the skills, to properly explain
> something, *or* listen. It takes too long. Anything that takes longer
> than a 60-second commercial (which just happens to take... 60 seconds!)
> is too much bother.
>
> But everything balances out, which explains why some usenet posts are
> miles & miles long, trying to explain a dreadfully simple concept, and
> never quite figuring out that the person at the other end lost interest
> many paragraphs prior.
Just like real life!
Andrew Muzi

It.... isn't?

By the way, I just got out of your neck of the woods yesterday. I was
originally scheduled to leave Madison (for ORD-SFO) tonight (Wednesday),
but saw the weather report yesterday (Tuesday) and thought maybe I'd best
get to the Madison airport ASAP and see if I could get out before the
worst hit. Yikes, it was like the fall of Saigon! I got on the very last
flight out to Denver, and from there to San Francisco. Looks like
everything got cancelled today until early this evening. We have it so
easy in California...

Oh come on, it was only 35 cm of snow.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

By the way, I just got out of your neck of the woods yesterday. I was
originally scheduled to leave Madison (for ORD-SFO) tonight (Wednesday),
but saw the weather report yesterday (Tuesday) and thought maybe I'd best
get to the Madison airport ASAP and see if I could get out before the
worst hit. Yikes, it was like the fall of Saigon! I got on the very last
flight out to Denver, and from there to San Francisco. Looks like
everything got cancelled today until early this evening. We have it so
easy in California...

Oh come on, it was only 35 cm of snow.

Um, actually, I was being rather kind by not pointing that out. It really
didn't seem like all that much snow that was shutting everything down
(although I'm told it was considerably worse today). But what the heck,
we've got an airport that pretty much shuts down with the slightest amount
of fog.

Yes, 35 cm is only about 14 inches.

With the wind blowing snow and the plows not being able to keep up, it
was almost impossible to tell where the road actually was today.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of rbt are going away. I'm sure some
day I'll see someone will write a "how do you fix this" question, and
the only coherent reply will be, "can't you afford to buy a new bike?"
At least there is the archives, that's usually where I search first.
It's sad, but we are in a disposable society, and knowledge is no longer
valued. Only money fixes everything now.

Don't necessarily agree. With a worn out entry level bike, getting a
new one might be good advice. A good bike will be worth maintaining and
fixing when some component wears out.

fsm?

http://www.visit-fsm.org/

the beard is an allusion to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein

pass the soup
and keep running

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

Slowly but surely, the true brains of
rbt are going away. I'm sure some day
I'll see someone will write a "how do
you fix this" question, and the only
coherent reply will be, "can't you
afford to buy a new bike?" At least
there is the archives, that's usually
where I search first. It's sad, but we
are in a disposable society, and
knowledge is no longer valued. Only
money fixes everything now.

Only money always fixed everything, we just use it differently now.
Why would I want to spend 2 hours repairing a $20 part? It isn't that
we're dumb or lazy, it's that manufactured goods keep getting cheaper
and cheaper while labour keeps getting more and more expensive.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

datakoll said:

fsm?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster>

datakoll said:

fsm?

http://www.visit-fsm.org/

SPAM eating tropical weirdos.