Brake chatter and integrated HS

WTB-54cm-ritchey said:

On two separate bikes I experience what feels like front brake chatter,
as riding on rippled road (like the highway shoulders). It's not so
much the brakes but the fork flex & HS play - is this called fork
chatter?. When standing next to the bike with the front brakes locked,
I can rock the bike back and fork and visually see a lot of fork flex
and HS play. The problem is, if I tighten the integrated HS anymore,
the steering is stiff (meaning it's too tight), and if I don't, then I
can visually see the play in the top headset race. I haven't seen this
on any of my standard threadless bikes, and saw this on threadeds only
when the HS wasn't tight enough.

Now this one particular bike has a Lite-speed branded front fork and it
flexes more than any other fork I've seen/used. Can anybody comment if
the problem is just related to the forks or if the integrated HS
inherently is susceptible to this issue. If just the fork, I can try
installing a beefier fork.

Sadly, I have no encouraging words to offer.

First read this:

http://www.chrisking.com/pdfs/Int%20Headsets%20Explained.pdf

There's a very good chance that what is wrong is that the head tube on
your frame is now worn out. There may not be a repair for this.

I agree wholeheartedly with the folks at Chris King about this issue:
Integrated headsets are an intensely Bad Idea.
--
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WTB-54cm-ritchey said:

On two separate bikes I experience what feels like front brake chatter,
as riding on rippled road (like the highway shoulders). It's not so
much the brakes but the fork flex & HS play - is this called fork
chatter?. When standing next to the bike with the front brakes locked,
I can rock the bike back and fork and visually see a lot of fork flex
and HS play. The problem is, if I tighten the integrated HS anymore,
the steering is stiff (meaning it's too tight), and if I don't, then I
can visually see the play in the top headset race. I haven't seen this
on any of my standard threadless bikes, and saw this on threadeds only
when the HS wasn't tight enough.

Now this one particular bike has a Lite-speed branded front fork and it
flexes more than any other fork I've seen/used. Can anybody comment if
the problem is just related to the forks or if the integrated HS
inherently is susceptible to this issue. If just the fork, I can try
installing a beefier fork.

FYI, the HS is Cane Creek IS

Yup, I've already read that along with many other related archived
threads. The bike have very low miles (less than 500 mi) so I doubt the
problem is related to wear.

Quoted message said:

Sadly, I have no encouraging words to offer.

First read this:

http://www.chrisking.com/pdfs/Int%20Headsets%20Explained.pdf

There's a very good chance that what is wrong is that the head tube on
your frame is now worn out. There may not be a repair for this.

I agree wholeheartedly with the folks at Chris King about this issue:
Integrated headsets are an intensely Bad Idea.

WTB-54cm-ritchey said:

WTB-54cm-ritchey said:

On two separate bikes I experience what feels like front brake chatter,
as riding on rippled road (like the highway shoulders). It's not so
much the brakes but the fork flex & HS play - is this called fork
chatter?. When standing next to the bike with the front brakes locked,
I can rock the bike back and fork and visually see a lot of fork flex
and HS play. The problem is, if I tighten the integrated HS anymore,
the steering is stiff (meaning it's too tight), and if I don't, then I
can visually see the play in the top headset race. I haven't seen this
on any of my standard threadless bikes, and saw this on threadeds only
when the HS wasn't tight enough.

Now this one particular bike has a Lite-speed branded front fork and it
flexes more than any other fork I've seen/used. Can anybody comment if
the problem is just related to the forks or if the integrated HS
inherently is susceptible to this issue. If just the fork, I can try
installing a beefier fork.

FYI, the HS is Cane Creek IS

I've experienced fork chatter on braking, often on CX bikes, but
occasionally on road bikes as well. I'm guessing it's related to system
stiffness, and possibly variable force between brake pad and rim. Wish
I knew how to fix it! I suspect changing almost anything in the front
end might do it, including frame, fork, wheel, brake, shoe, rider ;-),
etc.

As far as the ruined frame potential with integrated headsets: In my
experience mild damage can be repaired at least once, probably several
times. I've done it on one frame that had been ridden with a loose head
set for some time. For me it was quite easy and straight forward, and I
imagine it would be the same for any shop that has the cutting tool. I
just skimmed off the damaged metal and reassembled the headset. I might
have taken off 0.1 mm or so.

This is the cutting tool I used:
http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=51&item=756-S

WTB-54cm-ritchey said:

WTB-54cm-ritchey said:

On two separate bikes I experience what feels like front brake
chatter, as riding on rippled road (like the highway shoulders).
It's not so much the brakes but the fork flex & HS play - is this
called fork chatter?. When standing next to the bike with the front
brakes locked, I can rock the bike back and fork and visually see a
lot of fork flex and HS play. The problem is, if I tighten the
integrated HS anymore, the steering is stiff (meaning it's too
tight), and if I don't, then I can visually see the play in the top
headset race. I haven't seen this on any of my standard threadless
bikes, and saw this on threadeds only when the HS wasn't tight
enough.

Now this one particular bike has a Lite-speed branded front fork and
it flexes more than any other fork I've seen/used. Can anybody
comment if the problem is just related to the forks or if the
integrated HS inherently is susceptible to this issue. If just the
fork, I can try installing a beefier fork.

FYI, the HS is Cane Creek IS

Your headset likely has the parts in the incorrect order.

Read the following pdf and ensure that all of your parts are assembled in
the correct order (right side of pdf):

http://www.canecreek.com/fileadmin/canecreek/products/headsets/man_cc_head/IS_instr_12-16-2004.pdf

--
Phil

Yup, had the same problem with a Cane Creek integrated HS and I'd assembled
that in the wrong order......
Still think that they're inherently a flawed design but keep one frame with
this system as I only use it for the odd triathlon and TT.

Neil

Quoted message said:

Your headset likely has the parts in the incorrect order. Read the
following pdf and ensure that all of your parts are assembled in the
correct order (right side of pdf):
http://www.canecreek.com/fileadmin/canecreek/products/headsets/man_cc_head/IS_instr_12-16-2004.pdf
Phil

"WTB-54cm-ritchey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yup, I've already read that along with many other related archived
threads. The bike have very low miles (less than 500 mi) so I doubt

the

Quoted message said:

problem is related to wear.

Quoted message said:

Sadly, I have no encouraging words to offer.

First read this:

http://www.chrisking.com/pdfs/Int%20Headsets%20Explained.pdf

There's a very good chance that what is wrong is that the head tube

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your frame is now worn out. There may not be a repair for this.

I agree wholeheartedly with the folks at Chris King about this

issue:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Integrated headsets are an intensely Bad Idea.

Check the front brake caliper to make sure that there is no excess play
in the arms.

Chas.