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BRAKE on helmets

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UK and Europe
Published
22 April 2004
Last activity
27 April 2004
Original author
Just Zis Guy
Posts
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  1. BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this load of the
    most complete bollocks imaginable:

    "Nearly two thirds (63%) of the public would support a law
    making it compulsory to wear cycle helmets, according to a
    national survey. The survey results coincide with the second
    reading of a parliamentary bill making it compulsory for
    children to wear cycle helmets which takes place today.

    Brake, the national road safety charity, strongly supports
    the bill which will make it an offence for anyone under 16
    to ride a bike on a road, pavement or recreation ground
    without wearing a helmet.

    Wearing a cycle helmet is strongly supported by health
    practitioners and medical evidence. According to research by
    the Royal College of Nursing and Royal College of
    Paediatrics and Child Health, 50 children's lives could be
    saved each year if the law was changed to make wearing cycle
    helmets compulsory. The number of upper head injuries could
    be reduced by 85%, brain injuries reduced by 88% and facial
    injuries by 65%.

    As well as Brake and the Bicycle Helmet Initiative Trust
    (BHIT), national health bodies supporting the bill include:

    a.. Royal College of Surgeons    b.. Royal College of
    Paediatrics and Child Health    c.. Royal College of Nursing
       d.. Society of British Neurological Surgeons

    The British Dental Association and Faculty of Dental
    Practices also support the bill as a result of the serious
    facial injuries caused by cycling crashes.

    Despite the overwhelming importance of wearing a cycle
    helmet, The National Cycling Strategy and the national
    cycling organisation, CTC, oppose making helmets compulsory
    as they argue that requiring people to wear cycle helmets
    will deter them from cycling. They claim that the health
    benefits of cycling are greater than the casualty faced.

    Mary Williams OBE, chief executive of Brake, says: "We must
    challenge the idea that cycle helmets are a deterrent to
    bicycle use. They are a responsible, practical and easily
    implementable way of protecting children's lives.

    If children are taught from an early age that wearing a
    helmet is the law and recognise it protects them against
    death or serious injury, then arguments against helmet use
    will disappear. As these children grow up they will become
    adults who have no problem wearing a helmet.

    Brake is disappointed that some cycling lobby groups are
    against this life-saving measure. Try telling the parents of
    children who have been killed or brain-injured through being
    knocked off their bike that helmets aren't a vital
    protective measure.

    If we are prepared to protect professional cyclists by
    requiring them to wear helmets in races such as the Tour de
    France then surely we owe it to ourselves to protect our
    most precious possession - our children."

    Professor Tim Coats, professor of emergency medicine at
    Leicester Royal Infirmary, says: "Head or face injury is one
    of the commonest reasons for a child to be brought to the
    Accident and Emergency Department. Injury is the biggest
    cause of death in children. Compulsory use of cycle helmets
    would significantly reduce the number of children who are
    killed or severely injured each year."

    Brake also strongly supports cycle lanes and driver
    education to protect cyclists.

    Other survey results include:

    a.. 63% said they support a law making cycle helmets
    compulsory;    b.. 85% said the government should support
    campaigns to encourage people to wear cycle helmets;  
     c.. 84% said that cycle helmets save lives;    d.. 45%
    said the reason people do not wear cycle helmets is
    because they are 'not cool'.

    To arrange an interview with Mary Williams contact Brake's
    campaign officer, Simon Collister, on 01484 559909 or out of
    hours 07971 612857.

    The survey was conducted by the website Myvoice.co.uk.
    It surveyed the views of 9256 members of the public via
    its website.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

  2. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    The survey was conducted by the website Myvoice.co.uk. It
    surveyed the views of 9256 members of the public via its
    website.

    ..so it's produced invalid statistics, I'd suggest. I know
    the Internet's popular nowadays, but you've immediately
    biased your sample towards those who have access by
    conducting asurvey via a website. I'd be interested to hear
    how the sample was selected in other respects.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-
    virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 /
    Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 21/04/2004

  3. On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:23:11 +0100, "Simon D" <[email hidden]>

    wrote in message : said:

    I'd be interested to hear how the sample was selected in
    other respects.

    People who agreed with the statement "This week is Brain
    Injury Awareness Week, and among other things the campaign
    supports the use of bicycle helmets. Government is currently
    considering a bill to make the wearing of cycling helmets
    compulsory for under 16s. Last Friday was the 1st
    anniversary of the death of Andrei Kivilev the professional
    cyclist whose death led the International Cycling Union to
    make cycle helmets compulsory in all professional races. We
    thought that we would get your feedback on wearing bicycle
    helmets. Sources:
    db.bbc.co.ukbrain.shtml and
    cyclingnews.comcyclingnews.com

    In other words, a small, self-selected sample fed biased
    information at the point of survey. And that is probably the
    /most/ credible and accurate thing in this press release!

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

  4. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:23:11 +0100, "Simon D"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    I'd be interested to hear how the sample was selected in
    other respects.

    People who agreed with the statement "This week is Brain
    Injury Awareness Week, and among other things the campaign
    supports the use of bicycle helmets. Government is
    currently considering a bill to make the wearing of
    cycling helmets compulsory for under 16s. Last Friday was
    the 1st anniversary of the death of Andrei Kivilev the
    professional cyclist whose death led the International
    Cycling Union to make cycle helmets compulsory in all
    professional races. We thought that we would get your
    feedback on wearing bicycle helmets. Sources:
    db.bbc.co.ukbrain.shtml and
    cyclingnews.comcyclingnews.com

    In other words, a small, self-selected sample fed biased
    information at the point of survey. And that is probably
    the /most/ credible and accurate thing in this press
    release!

    --
    Guy
    ===


    I agree - completely invalid.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-
    virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 /
    Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 21/04/2004

  5. Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this
    load of the most complete bollocks imaginable:

    "Nearly two thirds (63%) of the public would support a law
    making it compulsory to wear cycle helmets, according to a
    national survey. The survey results coincide with the
    second reading of a parliamentary bill making it
    compulsory for children to wear cycle helmets which takes
    place today.

    Brake, the national road safety charity, strongly supports
    the bill which will make it an offence for anyone under 16
    to ride a bike on a road, pavement or recreation ground
    without wearing a helmet.

    Wearing a cycle helmet is strongly supported by health
    practitioners and medical evidence. According to research
    by the Royal College of Nursing and Royal College of
    Paediatrics and Child Health, 50 children's lives could be
    saved each year if the law was changed to make wearing
    cycle helmets compulsory. The number of upper head
    injuries could be reduced by 85%, brain injuries reduced
    by 88% and facial injuries by 65%.

    As well as Brake and the Bicycle Helmet Initiative Trust
    (BHIT), national health bodies supporting the bill
    include:

    a.. Royal College of Surgeons
    b.. Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health
    c.. Royal College of Nursing
    d.. Society of British Neurological Surgeons

    The British Dental Association and Faculty of Dental
    Practices also support the bill as a result of the serious
    facial injuries caused by cycling crashes.

    Despite the overwhelming importance of wearing a cycle
    helmet, The National Cycling Strategy and the national
    cycling organisation, CTC, oppose making helmets
    compulsory as they argue that requiring people to wear
    cycle helmets will deter them from cycling. They claim
    that the health benefits of cycling are greater than the
    casualty faced.

    Mary Williams OBE, chief executive of Brake, says: "We
    must challenge the idea that cycle helmets are a deterrent
    to bicycle use. They are a responsible, practical and
    easily implementable way of protecting children's lives.

    If children are taught from an early age that wearing a
    helmet is the law and recognise it protects them against
    death or serious injury, then arguments against helmet use
    will disappear. As these children grow up they will become
    adults who have no problem wearing a helmet.

    Brake is disappointed that some cycling lobby groups are
    against this life-saving measure. Try telling the parents
    of children who have been killed or brain-injured through
    being knocked off their bike that helmets aren't a vital
    protective measure.

    If we are prepared to protect professional cyclists by
    requiring them to wear helmets in races such as the Tour
    de France then surely we owe it to ourselves to protect
    our most precious possession - our children."

    Professor Tim Coats, professor of emergency medicine at
    Leicester Royal Infirmary, says: "Head or face injury is
    one of the commonest reasons for a child to be brought to
    the Accident and Emergency Department. Injury is the
    biggest cause of death in children. Compulsory use of
    cycle helmets would significantly reduce the number of
    children who are killed or severely injured each year."

    Brake also strongly supports cycle lanes and driver
    education to protect cyclists.

    Other survey results include:

    a.. 63% said they support a law making cycle helmets
    compulsory;
    b.. 85% said the government should support campaigns to
    encourage people to wear cycle helmets;
    c.. 84% said that cycle helmets save lives;
    d.. 45% said the reason people do not wear cycle helmets
    is because they are 'not cool'.

    To arrange an interview with Mary Williams contact Brake's
    campaign officer, Simon Collister, on 01484 559909 or out
    of hours 07971 612857.

    The survey was conducted by the website Myvoice.co.uk. It
    surveyed the views of 9256 members of the public via its
    website.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle
    after posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

    I was going to ring their campaign officer, but
    emailed instead:

    I have just had the misfortune to read your press release
    about Eric Marlew MP's helmet bill to make cycle helmets
    compulsory for under 16s.

    I am utterly astonished that an organisation of such repute
    as BRAKE would swallow, hook, line and sinker, the lies told
    by the Bicycle Helmet Initiative Trust (BHIT). You appear
    not to be aware that BHIT are a single issue lobbying group,
    who are not interested in road safety, they are only
    interested in forcing cyclists to wear helmets. BHIT are
    notorious for exagerating the risks of cycling and the
    protective effect of helmets. I note that you quote the BHIT
    statistic that 85% of head injuries to cyclists would be
    prevented by helmets: this figure is not even supported by
    the authors of the research it is based upon, a fact known
    to BHIT, but which does not deter them from using it.

    I would have expected an organisation such as BRAKE to
    have investigated cycle helmets thoroughly before
    commiting itself, and it is somewhat depressing to find
    that you accept the nonsense spouted by a single issue
    pressure group.

    Despite the claims made for cycle helmets by BHIT and
    others, there is no reliable evidence to show that helmets
    are effective, and much to show that they actually increase
    the risks to cyclists. In areas of the world where helmets
    were made compulsory, deaths and injuries did fall, but not
    by as much as the number of cyclists, so the risk to each
    cyclist rose.

    Please consider withdrawing your ill-considered press
    release until you can be confident that what you are saying
    is supported by the facts, otherwise you run the risk of
    losing support because you are not factual.

    cheers

    Rich

  6. Simon D said:


    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>
    wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:23:11 +0100, "Simon D"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    I'd be interested to hear how the sample was selected
    in other respects.

    People who agreed with the statement "This week is Brain
    Injury Awareness Week, and among other things the
    campaign supports the use of bicycle helmets.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In other words, a small, self-selected sample fed biased
    information at the point of survey. And that is probably
    the /most/ credible and accurate thing in this press
    release!

    Quoted message said:

    I agree - completely invalid.

    Of course, but the results will still be believed by the
    gullible majority who are unlikely to question their
    validity. That is what is so galling about this whole
    campaign. Most surveys are designed to acheive the results
    the surveyors already want.

    I am now coming across lots of ordinary people who support
    compulsion because they can see no further than the fact
    that a helmet may protect *their* child's life. Eyes just
    glaze over when the wider picture is explained.

    John B

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,=20
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this
    load of the most complete bollocks imaginable:

    <snip>
    =20

    Quoted message said:

    =A0a.. 63% said they support a law making cycle helmets
    compulsory; =A0 =A0b.. 85% said the government should
    support campaigns to encourage people to wear cycle
    helmets; =A0 =A0c.. 84% said that cycle helmets save
    lives;

    Which puts findings "a" & "b" in context really.=20

    Quoted message said:

    =A0 =A0d.. 45% said the reason people do not wear cycle
    helmets is becaus=


    e

    Quoted message said:

    they are 'not cool'.

    They're not. They make your head uncomfortably warm!
    =20

    Quoted message said:

    To arrange an interview with Mary Williams contact Brake's
    campaign officer, Simon Collister, on 01484 559909 or out
    of hours 07971 612857.=20

    Anyone fancy an unsociable phone campaign.

    Quoted message said:

    The survey was conducted by the website Myvoice.co.uk. It
    surveyed the views of 9256 members of the public via its
    website.

    Ah. Well that's OK then. Hands up if you; a) Knew that
    myvoice.co.uk=20 existed. b) Knew that they were running
    this survey.

    Jon

  8. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this
    load of the most complete bollocks imaginable:


    and they're not the only ones:
    headway.org.ukdefault.asp

    Headway's policy statement on cycle helmets is

    Cycle Helmets The wearing of cycle helmets should become
    compulsory, following an education and Public Relations
    Campaign and an investigation into the practicalities of
    enforcement, both for under 16s and adults.

    I rang the press officer for BRAKE, who didn't seem best
    pleased at being disturbed at 9:40, but I'll ring him back
    tomorrow. Please consider doing the same. If you send an
    email, you get the response that the recipient is on hols
    until Tuesday, so ringing is better.

    cheers

    Rich

  9. you know? said:

    BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this
    load of the most complete bollocks imaginable:

    "Nearly two thirds (63%) of the public would support a law
    making it compulsory to wear cycle helmets, according to a
    national survey. The survey results coincide with the
    second reading of a parliamentary bill making it compulsory
    for children to wear cycle helmets which takes place today.

    About 80% of the population would support a bill to execute
    certain classes of murderer. It doesn't make it the right
    thing to do.

    Quoted message said:

    Brake, the national road safety charity, strongly supports
    the bill which will make it an offence for anyone under 16
    to ride a bike on a road, pavement or recreation ground
    without wearing a helmet.

    Who will be punished if a 15 year old child is found cycling
    in the local park without a helmet?

    Quoted message said:

    Wearing a cycle helmet is strongly supported by health
    practitioners and medical evidence. According to research
    by the Royal College of Nursing and Royal College of
    Paediatrics and Child Health, 50 children's lives could be
    saved each year if the law was changed to make wearing
    cycle helmets compulsory. The number of upper head injuries
    could be reduced by 85%, brain injuries reduced by 88% and
    facial injuries by 65%.

    As well as Brake and the Bicycle Helmet Initiative Trust
    (BHIT), national health bodies supporting the bill include:

    a.. Royal College of Surgeons    b.. Royal College of
    Paediatrics and Child Health    c.. Royal College of
    Nursing    d.. Society of British Neurological Surgeons

    All responsible bodies.

    Quoted message said:

    The British Dental Association and Faculty of Dental
    Practices also support the bill as a result of the serious
    facial injuries caused by cycling crashes.

    A cycle helmet ain't going to do much to stop many
    facial injuries.

    Quoted message said:

    Despite the overwhelming importance of wearing a cycle
    helmet, The National Cycling Strategy and the national
    cycling organisation, CTC, oppose making helmets compulsory
    as they argue that requiring people to wear cycle helmets
    will deter them from cycling. They claim that the health
    benefits of cycling are greater than the casualty faced.

    I wonder how they *know* that.

    Quoted message said:

    Mary Williams OBE, chief executive of Brake, says: "We must
    challenge the idea that cycle helmets are a deterrent to
    bicycle use. They are a responsible, practical and easily
    implementable way of protecting children's lives.

    Perhaps in the long term, if accident rates fall, more
    people will be encouraged to cycle as a recreational
    activity or a means of transport. In the short term, I
    can't see how compulsory helmet wearing would encourage
    more cyclists.

    Quoted message said:

    If children are taught from an early age that wearing a
    helmet is the law and recognise it protects them against
    death or serious injury, then arguments against helmet use
    will disappear. As these children grow up they will become
    adults who have no problem wearing a helmet.

    I agree wholeheartedly.

    Quoted message said:

    Brake is disappointed that some cycling lobby groups are
    against this life-saving measure. Try telling the parents
    of children who have been killed or brain-injured through
    being knocked off their bike that helmets aren't a vital
    protective measure.

    An emotive point. Helmets would do little to save a 10 year
    old run over by a 38 ton truck.

    Quoted message said:

    If we are prepared to protect professional cyclists by
    requiring them to wear helmets in races such as the Tour de
    France then surely we owe it to ourselves to protect our
    most precious possession - our children."

    Professional racing car drivers are compelled to wear
    helmets... Would we apply the same rule to all motorists?

    Quoted message said:

    Professor Tim Coats, professor of emergency medicine at
    Leicester Royal Infirmary, says: "Head or face injury is
    one of the commonest reasons for a child to be brought to
    the Accident and Emergency Department. Injury is the
    biggest cause of death in children. Compulsory use of cycle
    helmets would significantly reduce the number of children
    who are killed or severely injured each year."

    Brake also strongly supports cycle lanes and driver
    education to protect cyclists.

    Driver education. Now there's an idea. If motorists showed
    the same consideration to bicycles as they usually do to
    horses, the roads would be a lot safer than they are now.

    Quoted message said:

    Other survey results include:

    a.. 63% said they support a law making cycle helmets
    compulsory;    b.. 85% said the government should support
    campaigns to encourage people to wear cycle helmets;  
     c.. 84% said that cycle helmets save lives;    d.. 45%
    said the reason people do not wear cycle helmets is
    because they are 'not cool'.

    To arrange an interview with Mary Williams contact Brake's
    campaign officer, Simon Collister, on 01484 559909 or out
    of hours 07971 612857.

    The survey was conducted by the website Myvoice.co.uk.
    It surveyed the views of 9256 members of the public via
    its website.

    So it's a reliable survey then !!!

  10. Reply to burt

    Quoted message said:

    I was going to ring their campaign officer, but emailed
    instead:

    My work-in-progress, written in a white-hot rage:

    I was horrified and saddened to learn recently that Brake
    supports the bill at present before Parliament to make cycle
    helmets for children compulsory; given the paucity of
    evidence from the real world that cycle helmets have any
    measurable effect on road safety, and the plethora of
    evidence that helmet compulsion has always reduced the
    amount of cycling wherever it has been tried, I would have
    hoped that Brake would oppose the bill strenuously.

    The press release I have read contains a number of
    inaccuracies, which do not reflect well on your
    organisation; in particular, your Chief Executive's
    statement:

    "If children are taught from an early age that wearing a
    helmet is the law and recognise it protects them against
    death or serious injury, then arguments against helmet use
    will disappear"

    seems to me the height of irresponsibility: considering that
    helmets are rated by their manufacturers to provide limited
    protection only in low-speed collisions, to tell children
    that helmets will protect them against death or serious
    injury would be not only lying to them, but might well
    encourage a false sense of safety which could be disastrous.
    Such a false sense of safety may be responsible for the
    failure of cycle helmets to improve accident statistics in
    populations where compulsion laws have been passed.

    --
    Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
    squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

  11. "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:05:18 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you

    know? said:

    Despite the overwhelming importance of wearing a cycle
    helmet, The National Cycling Strategy and the national
    cycling organisation, CTC, oppose making helmets
    compulsory as they argue that requiring people to wear
    cycle helmets will deter them from cycling. They claim
    that the health benefits of cycling are greater than the
    casualty faced.

    I wonder how they *know* that.

    Cos they asked the BMA, who did an exhaustive invesitigation
    into life-years gained against life-years lost due to
    cycling, and found that the benefits outweigh the
    disbenefits by at least 20:1, generally considered an
    underestimate.

  12. On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:05:18 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy,
    you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this
    load of the most complete bollocks imaginable:

    Quoted message said:

    According to research by the Royal College of Nursing and
    Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, 50
    children's lives could be saved each year if the law was
    changed to make wearing cycle helmets compulsory.

    Really.

    Quoted message said:

    The number of upper head injuries could be reduced by 85%,
    brain injuries reduced by 88% and facial injuries by 65%.

    We all should know that these figures are bogus.

    Quoted message said:

    Mary Williams OBE, chief executive of Brake, says: "We must
    challenge the idea that cycle helmets are a deterrent to
    bicycle use.

    It is not an idea, it is a fact.

    Quoted message said:

    Try telling the parents of children who have been killed or
    brain-injured through being knocked off their bike that
    helmets aren't a vital protective measure.

    Try telling the parents of children who have been killed or
    brain-injured through being knocked off their bike that
    helmets are a vital protective measure.

    Quoted message said:

    Professor Tim Coats, [snip] Injury is the biggest cause of
    death in children.

    Professor of the bleedin' obvious perhaps. However, the very
    careful use of words fails to hide the fact that cycling
    injuries are not the biggest cause of death in children.

    Quoted message said:

    To arrange an interview with Mary Williams contact Brake's
    campaign officer, Simon Collister, on 01484 559909 or out
    of hours 07971 612857.

    I will try to do so early tomorrow.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
    F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
    government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

  13. On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:34:38 +0100 someone who may be "burt"
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    I am utterly astonished that an organisation of such
    repute as BRAKE

    What sort of repute do they have?

    I have always considered them part of the problem, having
    seen a number of their press releases.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
    F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
    government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

  14. "burt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:05:18 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you

    know? said:

    Despite the overwhelming importance of wearing a cycle
    helmet, The National Cycling Strategy and the national
    cycling organisation, CTC, oppose making helmets
    compulsory as they argue that requiring people to wear
    cycle helmets will deter them from cycling. They claim
    that the health benefits of cycling are greater than
    the casualty faced.

    I wonder how they *know* that.

    Cos they asked the BMA, who did an exhaustive
    invesitigation into


    life-years

    Quoted message said:

    gained against life-years lost due to cycling, and found
    that the benefits outweigh the disbenefits by at least
    20:1, generally considered an underestimate.


    So, if I understand the argument correctly, say out of 1000
    cyclists, one dies at the age of 10 and doesn't reach 70, as
    a result of not wearing a helmet. S/he loses 60 years of
    life, but the 999 others each live 60*20/999=1.2 years
    longer on average as they're healthier. So they die at 71
    instead of 70 on average.

    I would argue that youthful years are more valuable than
    OAP years. My father died of heart disease at 59 - had he
    died at 10 I wouldn't be here. Had he been fitter he may
    have lived a few more years. Personally I'd rather he were
    alive long enough to procreate than live a couple of years
    more as an OAP.

    So if you accept my argument that OAP years have a lower
    value than younger years, the strength of the argument
    against helmet compulsion is much reduced, because the 20x
    benefit claimed is much reduced. There may still be a net
    benefit, but I wouldn't want to suggest the "youth
    weighting" needed to arrive at a more realistic figure!

    Food for thought?

    Mark

    PS I'm yet to be convinced either way on the compulsion
    issue. I believe helmets offer a degree of protection,
    but I don't think that not wearing one should be
    criminalised. Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to
    the idea - most of us accept that we should wear seat
    belts in cars and helmets on motorbikes.

  15. Just zis Guy said:

    BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this
    load of the most complete bollocks imaginable:

    "Nearly two thirds (63%) of the public would support a law
    making it compulsory to wear cycle helmets, according to a
    national survey.

    That would be the 2/3 that don't cycle, then?

  16. Just zis Guy said:


    In other words, a small, self-selected sample fed biased
    information at the point of survey. And that is probably
    the /most/ credible and accurate thing in this press
    release!

    Perhaps we should run our own survey here and publish the
    results: 95% of respondents thought that cycle helmets
    should not be compulsory, that they would lead to more
    deaths in children and the Government should leave well
    alone. Oh and they all thought that motor vehicles should be
    covered in 1m thick soft foam ;-)

    Care to right the introduction to the survey Guy?

    Tony

  17. The thing that really gets me about this press release is
    that BRAKE have switched to victim blaming. It is now your
    fault if you have a head injury because you were not
    wearing a helmet.

    Rather than addressing the cause, they are addressing
    the symptoms.

    "Let's put the onus on someone else instead so I don't have
    to take any responsibility". That is fine when you are the
    majority causing the problem, not the minority who suffer.

    ..d

  18. MarkK said:

    "burt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]... life-years

    Quoted message said:

    gained against life-years lost due to cycling, and found
    that the benefits outweigh the disbenefits by at least
    20:1, generally considered an underestimate.

    So, if I understand the argument correctly, say out of
    1000 cyclists, one dies at the age of 10 and doesn't reach
    70, as a result of not wearing a helmet. S/he loses 60
    years of life, but the 999 others each live 60*20/999=1.2
    years longer on average as they're healthier. So they die
    at 71 instead of 70 on average.

    Your argument falls down on the simple basis that there is
    no evidence that the death rate of child cyclists is reduced
    by helmet-wearing.

    The problem is that those pushing helmets are able to get
    away with asserting that they save lives because "it's
    common sense, innit?"

    Quoted message said:

    I would argue that youthful years are more valuable than
    OAP years. My father died of heart disease at 59 - had he
    died at 10 I wouldn't be here.

    You are right to this extent: Most people would want to
    maximise their healthy life expectancy. But for parents the
    instinctive goal is to minimise the chance that their child
    dies before they do. Therefore the belief that helmets can
    prevent early deaths makes them attractive to parents,
    whereas the health disbenefits of not cycling can be given
    lower weight.

    Quoted message said:

    PS I'm yet to be convinced either way on the compulsion
    issue. I believe helmets offer a degree of protection,
    but I don't think that not wearing one should be
    criminalised. Maybe it's just a matter of getting used
    to the idea - most of us accept that we should wear
    seat belts in cars and helmets on motorbikes.

    For me the unanswerable argument is that many other
    activities are far more risky to heads than cycling is, but
    no attempt is made to force helmets on stair-users, dog-
    walkers, etc. This makes helmet compulsion an anti-cycling
    measure, pure and simple. So is helmet promotion, unless
    based on true information on the efficacy of helmets.

    My MP has still not replied to my contact attempts. Anyone
    know Clive Soley's position?

    Colin McKenzie

    --
    Why believe statistics? Ignore them and you can believe the
    damned lies instead!

  19. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Zog The Undenia

    BJust zis Guy said:

    BRAKE have weighed in inna road "safety" stylee with this
    load of the most complete bollocks imaginable:

    "Nearly two thirds (63%) of the public would support a law
    making it compulsory to wear cycle helmets, according to a
    national survey.

    That would be the 2/3 that don't cycle, then? [/B]

    INterestingly if you go to bike magic you will find a large proportion in favour of compulsion. It may be that they tend to be more of the moutain biking fraternity who put themselves in postitions where falling off is more common than for utility riders/ tourers.

    I have no problem with racers being compelled to wear helmets. After all is that not what happens in motor sport? Compulsion in racing but not in utiltity driving. Perhaps Mr Coultard could confirm that.

  20. David Hansen said:
    Quoted message said:

    According to research by the Royal College of Nursing and
    Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, 50
    children's lives could be saved each year if the law was
    changed to make wearing cycle helmets compulsory.

    Quoted message said:

    Really.

    Yes, they intend to go out and kill an additional 28 child
    cyclists every year, and inflict fatal head injuries on the
    10 who died of none-head injuries alone, in order to make
    that possible.

    Quoted message said:

    Try telling the parents of children who have been killed
    or brain-injured through being knocked off their bike that
    helmets are a vital protective measure.

    And try telling parents of child pedestrians similarly
    affected. Of course, the fact that by the Government's best
    estimates a completely obeyed law might save at best 1% of
    child road fatalities, leaving a mere 99% untouched, is not
    to be mentioned...

    Quoted message said:

    Professor of the bleedin' obvious perhaps. However, the
    very careful use of words fails to hide the fact that
    cycling injuries are not the biggest cause of death in
    children.

    Quite. Road crashes account for 10% of hospitalisations and
    50% of deaths. It is road traffic, not cycling, which is
    uniquely dangerous to children.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

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