Brooks saddle shape

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, I do have one problem - it rubs the back of my legs a
little raw in one spot, at the top of my leg.

Brooks saddles do not allow themselves to move as far back as others. try a
seatpost with more setback

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out which is
rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and make it resemble the
Swift. I have also seen saddles with a row of holes punched in the
bottom of the deep leather sides and then rawhide or zip ties were
passsed between the holes on either side to "stitch" the bottom of the
saddle closed. Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides. I'm
guessing it would be the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and not
the smoother sides.

Mark Heiple <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a Brooks B17N (the narrow version) for somewhere around 1000
miles now. It seems like it is broken in (should be by now, I would
think). It is mostly comfortable, at least the the most comfortable
saddle I've tried so far (the crappy Selle Italia that came on the bike
and a Terry Fly)

Unfortunately, I do have one problem - it rubs the back of my legs a
little raw in one spot, at the top of my leg.

I'm wondering if the B17 is not quite cut away enough for me. Are the
other models shaped any different (the swift maybe)? I think the new
swallow is supposed to cut away pretty deep, but $400 seems a bit steep
for a saddle.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Russell Seaton) said:

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out which is
rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and make it resemble the
Swift. I have also seen saddles with a row of holes punched in the
bottom of the deep leather sides and then rawhide or zip ties were
passsed between the holes on either side to "stitch" the bottom of the
saddle closed. Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides. I'm
guessing it would be the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and not
the smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle, because my
sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't really stick up a lot,
just enough that I can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Mark Heiple said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Russell Seaton) said:

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out which is
rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and make it resemble the
Swift. I have also seen saddles with a row of holes punched in the
bottom of the deep leather sides and then rawhide or zip ties were
passsed between the holes on either side to "stitch" the bottom of the
saddle closed. Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides. I'm
guessing it would be the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and not
the smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle, because my
sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't really stick up a lot,
just enough that I can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the long
run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a series of holes along
the skirt on both sides and then laced the two sides together underneath. That
might pull it in enough to stop the chafing...
--
PeteCresswell

Check this out:
http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a series of holes

along

Quoted message said:

the skirt on both sides and then laced the two sides together underneath.

That

Quoted message said:

might pull it in enough to stop the chafing...
--
PeteCresswell

Gary Jacobson said:

Check this out:
http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a series of holes

along

Quoted message said:

the skirt on both sides and then laced the two sides together underneath.

That

Quoted message said:

might pull it in enough to stop the chafing...
--
PeteCresswell

Dear Gary,

What a nice page!

http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html

And at the bottom of all those pictures of oddly modified
Brooks saddles is a link to another page about strange
changes for saddlebag fanatics:

http://www.wallbike.com/content/carradicehacks.html

The saddlebag tweaks include links to detailed texts and
pictures.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Russell Seaton) said:

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out which is
rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and make it resemble the
Swift. I have also seen saddles with a row of holes punched in the
bottom of the deep leather sides and then rawhide or zip ties were
passsed between the holes on either side to "stitch" the bottom of the
saddle closed. Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides. I'm
guessing it would be the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and not
the smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle, because my
sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't really stick up a lot,
just enough that I can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the long
run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

I've been thinking that I should try a new saddle, I kept holding out
hoping that it would break in and all the problems would go away...it is
a lot more comfortable than my previous saddles (except for the chafing).

I was comparing pictures of the B17, Team Professional, and Swift, and
they don't appear to have much different shapes. I was trying to figure
out if the Swift might narrow a little quicker, leaving more room for my
legs and stop the chafing, but it doesn't look like it. Would the
thicker leather models avoid the "ass hatchet" problem?

So I guess I'm back on the saddle search again....

The original saddle was a cheap hard as a rock Selle Italia. I remember
it took a long time for me to toughen up enough that I could tolerate it
for more than a couple hours. Then winter came, and when I got the bike
out in the spring, it was like starting all over. I decided it was
easier to get a new saddle than go through all that again.

Then I tried a Terry Fly. It seemed a lot more comfortable at first,
but after a couple hours, the plastic base really starts getting your
attention. Then I got caught in the rain, which ruined it.

Here's a stupid question - does weight make a difference on the type of
saddle people find comfortable? Those plastic saddles seem to get quite
uncomfortable with my 220 lb carcass bearing down on them!

Thanks.

Mark Heiple said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Russell Seaton) wrote:

> If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out which is
> rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and make it resemble the
> Swift. I have also seen saddles with a row of holes punched in the
> bottom of the deep leather sides and then rawhide or zip ties were
> passsed between the holes on either side to "stitch" the bottom of the
> saddle closed. Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides. I'm
> guessing it would be the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and not
> the smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle, because my
sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't really stick up a lot,
just enough that I can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the long
run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

I've been thinking that I should try a new saddle, I kept holding out
hoping that it would break in and all the problems would go away...it is
a lot more comfortable than my previous saddles (except for the chafing).

I was comparing pictures of the B17, Team Professional, and Swift, and
they don't appear to have much different shapes. I was trying to figure
out if the Swift might narrow a little quicker, leaving more room for my
legs and stop the chafing, but it doesn't look like it. Would the
thicker leather models avoid the "ass hatchet" problem?

So I guess I'm back on the saddle search again....

The original saddle was a cheap hard as a rock Selle Italia. I remember
it took a long time for me to toughen up enough that I could tolerate it
for more than a couple hours. Then winter came, and when I got the bike
out in the spring, it was like starting all over. I decided it was
easier to get a new saddle than go through all that again.

Then I tried a Terry Fly. It seemed a lot more comfortable at first,
but after a couple hours, the plastic base really starts getting your
attention. Then I got caught in the rain, which ruined it.

Here's a stupid question - does weight make a difference on the type of
saddle people find comfortable? Those plastic saddles seem to get quite
uncomfortable with my 220 lb carcass bearing down on them!

Thanks.

Dear Mark,

I seem to recall that Chalo Colina, our resident giant,
favors broad Brooks saddles, but his opinion about what
saddles might suit mere 220-pound flyweights is likely to be
either theoretical or else just a dim childhood memory.

Still, he'd be worth listening to.

Carl Fogel

Mark Heiple said:

Here's a stupid question - does weight make a difference on the type of
saddle people find comfortable? Those plastic saddles seem to get quite
uncomfortable with my 220 lb carcass bearing down on them!

My 210 lb carcass, in my experience so far, is happiest on a Selle
Italia Prolink plastic saddle (although the surface is leather).
It's the plain Prolink, no cutout, no gel, etc. I think I might like
a cutout, though.

I have a Prolink Gelflow which appears similar, but has a couple
spots of gel, and it makes me numb.

I intend to try a Selle Italia Trans Am Max, which I'm hoping will
be like the Prolink plus a cutout, which may be just right.
--
Rick Onanian

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the saddle, where it
starts curving in toward the nose. It is chafing me sort of where my
rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a series of holes
along the skirt on both sides and then laced the two sides together
underneath. That might pull it in enough to stop the chafing...

I had the same chafing problem with my B17 after some 2000 km, and tried
lacing the sides as you mention. It was totally efficient against chafing,
but then the saddle lost all its suppleness and became hard as wood. To my
despair, I have reverted to the Selle Italia Tri-matic, which finally does
a good job too. In the meantime, I have briefly tried the Brooks Swift,
but it proved _much_ harder at the start than the B17, and I doubted I
would ever be able to break it in.

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and stretch the leather
a bit tighter. It only takes a fraction of a complete turn to tighten
it up a lot, so easy does it.
As you look at the saddle's adjustment bolt from the front, turn the
bolt very slightly counter-clockwise to tighten it up. 1/16 to 1/8
turn should be enough.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Russell Seaton) wrote:

Quoted message said:

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle, because my
sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't really stick up a lot,
just enough that I can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the long
run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Quoted message said:

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

I had a chafing problem with a B-17 standard.
Then I got a Koobi Silver, and have not looked back.
Brooks is not for everyone.

Bill

On 21 Jun 2004 09:53:13 -0700, [email hidden] (flatline)

Quoted message said:

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and stretch the leather
a bit tighter. It only takes a fraction of a complete turn to tighten
it up a lot, so easy does it.
As you look at the saddle's adjustment bolt from the front, turn the
bolt very slightly counter-clockwise to tighten it up. 1/16 to 1/8
turn should be enough.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Russell Seaton) wrote:

Quoted message said:

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle, because my
sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't really stick up a lot,
just enough that I can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the long
run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Quoted message said:

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

Dear Flatline,

Aha! So there is a better solution!

Am I right in guessing that this snub-up bolt tightens the
leather across the saddle, which is sagging or drooping
between a centerline support and an edge support on either
side?

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

I seem to recall that Chalo Colina, our resident giant,
favors broad Brooks saddles, but his opinion about what
saddles might suit mere 220-pound flyweights is likely to be
either theoretical or else just a dim childhood memory.

Well, it has been a long, long time. Back then I was much less picky
about saddles, but the best I had was a Vetta ATB saddle-- which if I
guess correctly is no longer available. It was similar in shape to
the OEM saddles of the pre-Selle Italia Flite, pre-fart-slot days, but
larger in both width and length.

My thinking is that you want to keep PSI levels on your "contact
patch" within the normal range, but that sport saddles are the shape
they are for good reasons. So a heavy rider can do well by selecting
a saddle that is oversized, but of normal relative proportions and
contours. Saddles reminiscent of tractor seats, birthday cakes, or
Pop Art soft sculptures are less likely to suit an active rider.

Chalo Colina

In article <[email hidden]>,

(flatline) said:

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and stretch the leather
a bit tighter. It only takes a fraction of a complete turn to tighten
it up a lot, so easy does it.
As you look at the saddle's adjustment bolt from the front, turn the
bolt very slightly counter-clockwise to tighten it up. 1/16 to 1/8
turn should be enough.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. When I tighten it, should I see the
saddle visibly change, or will it just feel different?

I think I'll also try the suggestion to punch holes in the skirt and
lace them together. I'll try tightening first, then try lacing the
skirt together if tightening doesn't work for me.

Mark Heiple <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was comparing pictures of the B17, Team Professional, and Swift, and
they don't appear to have much different shapes. I was trying to figure
out if the Swift might narrow a little quicker, leaving more room for my
legs and stop the chafing, but it doesn't look like it.

The Swift doesn't narrow more quickly in the sense of being more "T"
shaped. The difference is that the fantail is a little bit smaller,
so there's less narrowing to be done. Rather than rely on that to
solve the problem, I'd experiment with pushing the saddle back a bit
further.

Quoted message said:

Would the
thicker leather models avoid the "ass hatchet" problem?

Quite possibly. Or you may just have a bad one. At least among
standard B17s, there have been recurring complaints of saddles sagging
before their time. I don't know if this complaint applies to B17
Narrows, but (FWIW) I've never heard it about a Pro or Swift.

My own data points: Four B17 variants (standard, Champion Special,
Champion Flyer (single rail sprung), B66 Champion (double rail sprung
w/ B17 top); one Swift. The four B17s were all decently comfortable
after 50-100 miles, except for the B17 Champion Special, which
required twice that. One developed a ridge at about 1000 miles, but
the others have not. The Swift took something like 700 miles to begin
to be comfortable, and, at 1800 miles, its "dimples" are barely
discernible.

Peter Storey

The curvature of the saddle does not change much after adjusting. But
the leather firmness seems to increase along the left and right sides.
My butt notices it.
Rain and road spray seems to be leather saddles' worst enemy. After
riding in just a little wet weather the center ridge gets worse and I
usually need to tweak the adjustment bolt.

Mark Heiple <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(flatline) said:

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and stretch the leather
a bit tighter. It only takes a fraction of a complete turn to tighten
it up a lot, so easy does it.
As you look at the saddle's adjustment bolt from the front, turn the
bolt very slightly counter-clockwise to tighten it up. 1/16 to 1/8
turn should be enough.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. When I tighten it, should I see the
saddle visibly change, or will it just feel different?

I think I'll also try the suggestion to punch holes in the skirt and
lace them together. I'll try tightening first, then try lacing the
skirt together if tightening doesn't work for me.