Alan Dicey said:Peter Clinch said:Kate XXXXXX said:This will be a mid/outer layer garment. Basically it will have the
following features:
Longer body length: needs to cover the hips and seat area
Good thinking. Lower at the back gives added protection without
impeding movement, and helps keep bum warm/dry when sitting down.
Can I just introduce myself: 'twas me that laid down the spec's, and
that is exactly what I was after. This time we might try for a curved
bottom edge, to make the built-in sit mat effect better.
Yes, boss! <Insert smart salute with clicky heels>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Pull-in at the waist to reduce bulk and stop drafts
It's popular to use draw cords for this, but my old ME Ultrafleece
jacket hits most of the bases you seem to be aiming at in your design
and just uses some light elastication for this. IMHO it works better in
practice than the drawcords and I suspect it will be easier to make,
and not leave toggles etc. to get in the way and add cost, weight and
bulk.
The MkII jacket was built using the commercially available technology
for DIY sewists - light elastication is relatively hard to achieve on a
one-off, wheras a shock-cord waistpull, through the back half of the
jacket only, and with one slim cord lock, allows me to pull in the waist
enough to stop draughts (and to improve the looks - which is a factor too)
It also allows you to let all the elastication out to give extra room
for going over more layers on seriously cold days, or over conventional
gents natty suiting round town: a consideration requested at the last
making.
I now have access to better 'findings' (all the bits that aren't
fabric), and a wider choice, so some of the difficulties encountered in
the past will be overcome by technology!
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Quoted message said:NO shoulder seam!
Excellent. I wish more designers thought like you!
<grin> have carried packs for long enough to know that seam buildup at
the shoulder is to be avoided.
I'm thinking of reducing seam bulk even further by either flatlocking
the seams or lapping them and stitching with a double needle or two
separate rows of stitching. The laminated fleece doesn't run or fray,
but I like a neat finish inside and out, and the fabric does stretch, so
seams have to have built in stretch too, or they pop and fail...
I'm also trying to reduce the number of seams by avoiding a centre back
seam in the yoke section. The complex bit will be getting the curved
seam that joins the one-piece sleeve & yoke section to the jacket
correct, given that it will be bisected in two places by pit zips.
Sewing is most definitely fabric engineering.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Pockets above and below waist designed to be accessible WITHOUT removing
backpack! At least two pockets big enough to hold folded OS maps...
Another nice thing about my old ME U-fleece. The lower pockets are just
handwarmers, and have no zips, which is IMHO a Good Thing. Less weight
and bulk and you don't rasp cold hands raw putting them in and out.
Lower pockets prime requirement is that access should not be impeded by
the waistbelt of your backpack. That means side-entry, but not vertical
- slanted pockets are easier to get at with a pack on. Upper pockets
are on the front seams, but inside, so protected from water entry -
vertical entries going into full-size chest pockets, a la Rohan.
We need to think and experiment with the pockets, chest pockets in
particular. I'm not sure that having BOTH chest pockets accessible only
by unzipping the front of the jacket is the best idea. As I avoid chest
pockets for myself like the plague (on the one [boy's] jacket I have
that has one, it has never been used), I have no real idea of what
people want them for, so no idea what access should be like or what is best.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Pockets made of mesh on the inside to reduce bulk.
good idea in a windbloc fleece, though see further comments below about
that...
Quoted message said:Closeable cuff for bulk reduction and wind resistance
I'm not actually convinced by these. Of my various outer/mid tops I
think the cuffs that work genuinely best are the simple ones bound with
elastic tape. The caveat is they have to be just right so you can roll
the sleeve up but not too loose to let the openings sag, but of course
as you're custom building you can get it right. It's simpler and
lighter than a closable cuff, and it's also much easier (I'm guessing
here, not being up to home builds myself!) to put in a thumb-loop
(something I quite like).
The sleeve cuffs have been the most difficult areas of the jacket design
to get right. Velcro tabs are easy to adjust but add bulk at the wrist,
where seam-buildup is worst ( **how big** do you need those gloves to
be???) partly due to the thickness of the Windbloc fabric.
Elasticating them ought to work, if it wasn't for the thickness and
stiffness of the (non-Malden Mills) laminated fleece we used. It works,
after a fashion, but is not perfect (a lot better than velcro tabs,
though). The balance of fabric stiffness vs cuff elasticity is hard to
get right in a one-off design.
It will certainly take some thought. Hm... Might put some pix of the
present Mk II jacket up on the web site for comments... Unfortunately
we no longer have the Mk I jacket to compare it with.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Pit zips
Again, good in a windbloc top, though maybe more trouble than worth in
alternatives commented on lower down. All the little bits do add to the
weight. My U-fleece jacket has them, but I could live without them.
Difficult decision, to be sure. I opted for pit zips (zipped openings
from elbow to waist - and you have *no idea* how difficult that is to
actually put together) because the specified fabric is windbloc ( for
high-exposure protection), which restricts ventilation on balmy summer
days on the South Downs, for instance.
On the difficulties of inserting pit zips... Hm...
POCKET zipz are usually sewn into cut slots in the fabric which are
faced back: welts/flaps can be applied fairly easily. For this you use
a lighter weight WOVEN fabric to reduce bulk and provide stabil;ity.
Nylon taffeta is often used, but I'm going to look for something less
crinkly and nicer. FRONT zips are a doddle, except where the fabric is
VERY bulky and/or has pile (think Polartc 300 and the like). The
laminated fleece is fairly stable, but bulky, so presents some problems
feeding through the machine. There are ways to minimise the
difficulties (use the correct needle, the proper foot on the machine,
etc.) Both types of zip are usually done with fairly bulky zips as they
need to be strong as well as easily used by gloved hands.
PIT ZIPS have to work both easily (a fault with the present ones) AND be
ultra comfortable in use. You cannot use the same bulky but easy to use
zip under the arm, or you feel like you have something nasty biting you
in the armpit all day long! The concealed zip is ideal in some respects
as it is less bulky, BUT... On the thicker fabrics such as Windbloc the
method of insertion and the resulting closeness of the stitching line to
the zip teeth means that opening and closing the zip is quite difficult.
Add to this the way that they are designed to be discrete to the point
of invisibility in posh frocks and smart skirts, and you have a TINY zip
pull that is hard to replace with something you can grab with a gloved hand!
Unlike other types of zip, concealed zips are put in BEFORE the rest of
the seam is sewn, and putting them into what is essentially a tube is no
easy option... I've been inserting zips with little or no trouble for
some 43 years (OK, I started young! And Mum forgot to tell me they
were difficult... ), but pit zips can be a bugger to get right as there
is no margin for error or room to fudge it. Once the zip is in you then
have to get the cuff and hem lined up properly or the damned thing won't
work at all, and there's no way you want to be unpicking a concealed zip
in this fabric, believe me!
One reason I want to see what the water/windproof zips are like is to
determine whether or not they would work as pit zips. If they are not
too bulky they would be a lot easier to put in than the concealed ones.
The other thing that needs to the thought about in this is the method
of insertion: concealed zips go in with a single line of stitching
through a single layer of fabric: they way they are constructed means
that the seam allowance is squished flat by the zip... This means fewer
lines of stitching so a more flexible finish. An ordinary zip needs to
be sewn in with the seam allowances sewn flat or they get in the way of
zip use. This means EITHER two lines of stitching OR sewing through two
layers of fabric round the zip, making the whole thing less flexible.
So it's a matter of comfort in the final construction versus ease of
use. As ion all things, one needs to compromise.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Double ended front zip
Zips to be water & wind resistant
Maybe a front storm flap (but see zips above)
All seems pretty sensible, though a wee overlap behind a zip to catch
the wind should be enough. If it's going to be the sort of rain
requiring a proper storm flap then you'd be looking at a formal shell
probably. As noted above, more features means more weight and bulk.
I'm attracted to the waterproof zips on recent Rohan gear, although
these may flatter to deceive. But a waterproof zip must be windproof by
definition? so a storm flap should not be necessary.
This was my thought also. On the present jacket there is quite a
build-up of layers up the front, what with zips, zip facings on pockets,
storm flap...
Quoted message said:
The garment is not meant to be a waterproof. It is a mid/outer layer,
versatile enough to cope with most British weather *apart from
rainfall*, for which I would always add a waterproof shell.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Possibly a detachable hood.
As an alternative consider a simple hood in a lighter fabric. Less
complex overall, and if you roll it it'll make a good stand-up collar.
If it's not time to go for the formal hard shell a hood is just a
keep-the-worst-off job, so best left simple on a jacket like this IMHO,
if you bother having one at all. Might be easier just to pop a hat or a
buff in one of the pockets, which will keep the jacket lighter and less
bulky. I tend not to use hoods that much, but OTOH I'm a slaphead so
tend to use hats more than a lot of folk as a default.
Gone straight into comfort vs logic here. I strongly dislike rain on my
head. No good reason, I just don't like it. So I use a hat, formerly
various baseball caps, but more recently at Tilley which fits the bill
very well. Bulk I am prepared to put up with for the considerable
comfort I gain. Hats are preferable to hoods in all but a howling gale,
because they are less restrictive - you can hear what's going on around
you much better.
SO: 90% of the time you want a hat... What about that last 10%?
Detachable hood? Light weight hood to hold the hat on? Speak now or
forever rest in pieces...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:I'm thinking in terms primarily of Windbloc type fleece (there's a
goodly chunk of it in the stash!).
I'm not a great fan of this, though having said that I appreciate that
lots of people are, so if the intended wearer loves the stuff you can
happily ignore this... I find it rather cardy in feel, it's heavier
than I like, and though it will keep showers at bay quite well, if it
/does/ get wet through it stays that way for /hours/ and is not at all
warm when wet. I also find it not especially breathable. You can get
similar levels of protection from a microfleece with a pertex (or
similar) shell, which will probably be lighter as well and almost
certainly more breathable. Another possibility is a /relatively/
windproof "normal" fleece such as K2/Karisma (what ME brand Ultrafleece)
or WindPro etc. backed with a pertex liner on the front (ideal for
making up those chest pocket spaces rather than the mesh in Plan A), or
just a double layer of the fleece (which makes pockets with a nicer feel
for cold hands, IMHO).
Another option, though more expensive and I don't know how easily
available it is, is something like Powershield. it's very warm, tough,
and breatahble and is remarkably good at keeping out weather. It
doesn't have that nice fleecy look on the outer though, also a criticism
of the pertex shelled microfleece approach.
But there are obviously people who like laminate sandwich fleeces and
who get stuff dome happily while wearing them, so if you want to stick
with it go right ahead!
Quoted message said:I anyone has any further suggestions, please make them. There may
eventually be a pattern available for the finished jacket, if any of you
are into home built gear.
On paper it sounds like a very well thought out bit of kit and I imagine
it could evoke considerable jealousy! Though remember there are times
when less really is more and don't forget to (very literally) weigh
things up before adding them.
Pete.
I like windbloc for its versatility, recognising that it has
limitations. It has worked well for me, from warm windy days on the
South Downs to windblown snow in the Southern Uplands. A waterproof
shell is *essential* to keep the rain out.
I've always wondered how well the Buffalo (pertex/pile) method works. I
suspect it's very much a personal choice - you either like it or hate it.
Then there's Paramo. Again, I've no personal experience, though many
users are almost ecstatic in their enthusiasm.
The Mk II jacket has had a good number of compliments paid to it when I
have been out walking. So, quite apart from it satisfying my own
requirements, I know it has a certain amount of general appeal :-)
Hence my idea of making the pattern available to others... 🙂
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
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