Building rear wheel?

Kim Noer said:

Hi!

I used http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html as a guide,
unfortunately, I was consistent in getting it wrong. That is, if you look at
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/wheel36.gif - and notice the red and blue
spokes. On the illustration you can see how the red spoke goes under the
'near' dark blue spoke, then over the 'far' dark blue spoke (on the
freewheel side). Now I got the red spoke going over the 'near' dark blue
spoke and under the 'far' dark blue spoke. Will this make any difference, or
should I redo the wheel on that side?

PS. If it matters to the above, I got radial on the left side.

i think you are having spokes from one side cross over spokes on other
side... The spokes of one side of the hub cross only the spokes on same
side of the hub. Spokes on one side of the wheel are totally independent
of the spokes on other side... so in your case you are using radial
spoking on the non-drive side right ? go ahead with that... Just make
sure when lacing the 'dark blue' spokes, make sure they cross three of
the red spokes...

i think the coloring pattern here in this pic is red and dark blue
spokes are on the drive side and orange and light blue spokes are on the
non-drive side...

So, at the end of spoking, if you have cross section of the wheel, it
will look like:

-- RIM
/\
/ \
/ \
/ \
|==HUB===|
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
-- RIM

hope this helps...
+ravi

Ravi said:

i think you are having spokes from one side cross over spokes on other
side... The spokes of one side of the hub cross only the spokes on

What? No I don't. I don't know why you got that idea?

Quoted message said:

i think the coloring pattern here in this pic is red and dark blue
spokes are on the drive side and orange and light blue spokes are on
the non-drive side...

Yes I know that, it should be somewhat obvious in my original posting. I'm
not trying to break your b'lls, but uhm, try reading my original posting
again.

Just to be sure; look at a red spoke on the illustration. Now I got that red
spoke going over the near dark blue spoke, and then under the far dark blue
spoke. Or if you want the 'complete' version, the red spoke is going over,
over, and under the dark blue spokes.

--
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. ---- William Pitt,
1783

Kim Noer said:

I used http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html as a guide,
unfortunately, I was consistent in getting it wrong. That is, if you look at
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/wheel36.gif - and notice the red and blue
spokes. On the illustration you can see how the red spoke goes under the
'near' dark blue spoke, then over the 'far' dark blue spoke (on the
freewheel side). Now I got the red spoke going over the 'near' dark blue
spoke and under the 'far' dark blue spoke. Will this make any difference, or
should I redo the wheel on that side?

Yes, it makes a difference. Re-do it. The red spokes are the trailing
spokes, and the dark blue spoke are the leading spokes. In a 3-cross
lacing, the outermost crossing is opposite the first two (e.g., over,
over, under for leading [dark blue] spokes).

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

Yes, it makes a difference. Re-do it. The red spokes are the trailing
spokes, and the dark blue spoke are the leading spokes. In a 3-cross
lacing, the outermost crossing is opposite the first two (e.g., over,
over, under for leading [dark blue] spokes).

Thanks for the reply, I've reconfigurated the wheel now. But I'm going to
leave the truing part for a clever bikeman (if I can find such).

--
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. ---- William Pitt,
1783

Kim Noer said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, it makes a difference. Re-do it. The red spokes are the
trailing spokes, and the dark blue spoke are the leading spokes.
In a 3-cross lacing, the outermost crossing is opposite the first
two (e.g., over, over, under for leading [dark blue] spokes).

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the reply, I've reconfigured the wheel now. But I'm going
to leave the truing part for a clever bikeman (if I can find such).

Hold it. Lacing the spokes has traditionally been the barrier to
wheel building and you got past that. Tightening and truing the wheel
should be easy. I haven't gone into the details of Sheldon's
description, but I'm sure it does it step by step. If not, you should
get a copy of "the Bicycle Wheel" for your trusty reference. Given
that text before the book was in print, my grade school sons each
built a set of wheels with the instruction to not ask me anything
unless they get truly stuck. They built excellent wheels and they
both got Italian racing bicycles for Christmas equipped with the
wheels the other one built.

You can do it!

Jobst Brandt

Kim Noer said:

Just to be sure; look at a red spoke on the illustration. Now I got that red
spoke going over the near dark blue spoke, and then under the far dark blue
spoke. Or if you want the 'complete' version, the red spoke is going over,
over, and under the dark blue spokes.

I am sorry, i misread your email - 'near' and 'far' is something i
confused 🙁

Regd. your query, i think it depends on what you are planning to use
this wheel for? Point to note is both the methods are ok - but decide
which is best suited for the application.

When hard pedaling, trailing spokes (red) will have tendency to straighten.

Pattern A: red spokes go over the 'far' blue spoke. The spokes tend to
flex inside - because the leading 'far' blue spoke is pushed inside.

Pattern B: red spokes go under the 'far' blue spoke. The spokes tend to
flex outside. But when the force is applied in the reverse direction (of
normal pedaling), then the leading spokes push the trailing spokes inside...

Pattern A is useful for derailler systems - so that when pedaling hard,
the spokes does not interfere with the derailler cage. There is no way
of reverse pedaling because of the freewheel.

Pattern B is useful for fixed gear wheels - where the backpedaling is
quite common.

explained in 'Which Side of the flange?' section of Sheldon's page.

+ravi

Quoted message said:

Hold it. Lacing the spokes has traditionally been the barrier to
wheel building and you got past that. Tightening and truing the wheel
should be easy. I haven't gone into the details of Sheldon's

I could, but perhaps I've been reading too much about, and it seems like I
need a truing stand, and a tensionmeter[1] for the best results, which is
what I seek. Secondly, I'm reusing the spokes and the rim. Especially the
rim is starting to show some wear around the around the spoke holes, so I'm
not completely confident that I can manage without having a catastrophic
breakdown two weeks later 🙂. Now of course all this depends on me finding a
competent LBS.

I wouldn't be so hesistant with a brand new rim and spokes, and having the
right tools for the job.

Quoted message said:

You can do it!

I know I can, I'm just not sure I want to invest in the gear that gives me
the best results.

[1] Yup, I do know that you can use the ears, which I used for the
frontwheel.

--
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. ---- William Pitt,
1783

Ravi said:

Regd. your query, i think it depends on what you are planning to use
this wheel for? Point to note is both the methods are ok - but decide

I'm not using the wheel for competition or anything like it. So we won't be
talking 35 km/h+ very often. It's a fullblown race bike though, that's
mainly because I'm most comfortable with those, and I can get a nice pace
without sweating too much. And well, the type of bike interest me.

Quoted message said:

Pattern A: red spokes go over the 'far' blue spoke. The spokes tend
to flex inside - because the leading 'far' blue spoke is pushed
inside.
Pattern B: red spokes go under the 'far' blue spoke. The spokes tend
to flex outside. But when the force is applied in the reverse
direction (of normal pedaling), then the leading spokes push the
trailing spokes inside...

Thanks a bundle for those clarifications.

--
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. ---- William Pitt,
1783

Kim Noer said:

Quoted message said:

Hold it. Lacing the spokes has traditionally been the barrier to
wheel building and you got past that. Tightening and truing the
wheel should be easy. I haven't gone into the details of Sheldon's

Quoted message said:

I could, but perhaps I've been reading too much about, and it seems
like I need a truing stand, and a tensiometer[1] for the best
results, which is what I seek. Secondly, I'm reusing the spokes and
the rim. Especially the rim is starting to show some wear around
the around the spoke holes, so I'm not completely confident that I
can manage without having a catastrophic breakdown two weeks later.

Quoted message said:

Now of course all this depends on me finding a competent LBS.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't be so hesitant with a brand new rim and spokes, and
having the right tools for the job.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You can do it!

Quoted message said:

I know I can, I'm just not sure I want to invest in the gear that
gives me the best results.

You don't need all that stuff. As others have mentioned, you can use
your bicycle as a truing stand. I did that for years until someone
who wanted me to build him some wheels gave me a stand.

All you need for sure is a spoke wrench.

Jobst Brandt