Building Wheels - equipment needs

If you are ordering from Performance and are spending over $50, use this coupon
number; 6000381. You will get an addition 20% off (even sale items). Coupon
number is good till 6-15-2004

(EdDyMeRkX) said:

If you are ordering from Performance and are spending over $50, use this coupon
number; 6000381. You will get an addition 20% off (even sale items). Coupon
number is good till 6-15-2004

In fact, if you order from any online or MO retailer, google for
coupon codes...might as well save some money for five minutes
googling.
--
Rick Onanian

Roger Zoul said:

Okay, let's say I'm want to build my own wheels (I'm a 240 lbs riding
whose had problems with popping spokes) and also begin the process of
freeing myself of dependance on the bicycle shop.
I've been reading sheldon brown's website and I've ordered "The
Bicycle Wheel"
I want to start with decent stuff, so I'm considering these things (not
all just for wheel building)
http://tinyurl.com/24m2lhttp://tinyurl.com/24m2l (a repair stand) <==
I've been wanting this
http://tinyurl.com/37ewhhttp://tinyurl.com/37ewh (a truing stand)
http://tinyurl.com/2l2n3http://tinyurl.com/2l2n3 (a tensiometer) <== I'd
like to spend way less on this part
http://tinyurl.com/2ar66http://tinyurl.com/2ar66 (a spoke wrench set)
http://tinyurl.com/ysalnhttp://tinyurl.com/ysaln (a dishing tool)
Is this good stuff for the price?

I like the Park Tension meter ergonomics, but I found it to be less
useful and repeatable than the Wheelsmith unit.

--

EdDyMeRkX wrote:
:: If you are ordering from Performance and are spending over $50, use
:: this coupon number; 6000381. You will get an addition 20% off (even
:: sale items). Coupon number is good till 6-15-2004

Good Stuff! Thanks.

Roger Zoul said:

I want to start with decent stuff, so I'm considering these things (not all
just for wheel building)

http://tinyurl.com/24m2l (a repair stand) <== I've been wanting this
http://tinyurl.com/37ewh (a truing stand)
http://tinyurl.com/2l2n3 (a tensiometer) <== I'd like to spend way less on
this part

Google groups for many, many discussions about these items.

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2ar66 (a spoke wrench set)

These look like very nice spoke wrenches

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/ysaln (a dishing tool)

Isn't there a "deluxe" version that's only slightly more money, but
has more functionality?

Quoted message said:

Is this good stuff for the price?

The truing stand definitely looks like a great price, but make sure
that it's the truing stand you'd want.
--
Rick Onanian

Roger Zoul said:

Okay, let's say I'm want to build my own wheels (I'm a 240 lbs riding whose
had problems with popping spokes) and also begin the process of freeing
myself of dependance on the bicycle shop.

Don't forget the Velocity Deep-V's, some 32 hole
hubs and butted spokes.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com

Roger Zoul said:

Okay, let's say I'm want to build my own wheels (I'm a 240 lbs riding whose
had problems with popping spokes) and also begin the process of freeing
myself of dependance on the bicycle shop.

I've been reading sheldon brown's website and I've ordered "The Bicycle
Wheel"

I want to start with decent stuff, so I'm considering these things (not all
just for wheel building)

http://tinyurl.com/24m2l (a repair stand) <== I've been wanting this

http://tinyurl.com/37ewh (a truing stand)

http://tinyurl.com/2l2n3 (a tensiometer) <== I'd like to spend way less on
this part

http://tinyurl.com/2ar66 (a spoke wrench set)

http://tinyurl.com/ysaln (a dishing tool)

While most these things qualify as "nice to haves", I've built a few
wheels over the years and my only special tool is a spoke wrench.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

John Everett wrote:
:: On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:57:22 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Okay, let's say I'm want to build my own wheels (I'm a 240 lbs
::: riding whose had problems with popping spokes) and also begin the
::: process of freeing myself of dependance on the bicycle shop.
:::
::: I've been reading sheldon brown's website and I've ordered "The
::: Bicycle Wheel"
:::
::: I want to start with decent stuff, so I'm considering these things
::: (not all just for wheel building)
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/24m2l (a repair stand) <== I've been wanting this
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/37ewh (a truing stand)
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/2l2n3 (a tensiometer) <== I'd like to spend way
::: less on this part
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/2ar66 (a spoke wrench set)
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/ysaln (a dishing tool)
::
:: While most these things qualify as "nice to haves", I've built a few
:: wheels over the years and my only special tool is a spoke wrench.

Wow?

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:57:22 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: I want to start with decent stuff, so I'm considering these things
::: (not all just for wheel building)
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/24m2l (a repair stand) <== I've been wanting this
::: http://tinyurl.com/37ewh (a truing stand)
::: http://tinyurl.com/2l2n3 (a tensiometer) <== I'd like to spend way
::: less on this part
::
:: Google groups for many, many discussions about these items.

I decided to go with the Ultimate Pro Repair Stand and Ultimate Pro Truing
Stand. Performance has them as a combo for $200, and with a 20% discount --
good deal. Plus, supposedly the truing stand eliminates the need for a
dishing tool.

::
::: http://tinyurl.com/2ar66 (a spoke wrench set)
::
:: These look like very nice spoke wrenches
::
::: http://tinyurl.com/ysaln (a dishing tool)
::
:: Isn't there a "deluxe" version that's only slightly more money, but
:: has more functionality?
::
::: Is this good stuff for the price?
::
:: The truing stand definitely looks like a great price, but make sure
:: that it's the truing stand you'd want.
:: --
:: Rick Onanian

Roger Zoul said:

I decided to go with the Ultimate Pro Repair Stand and Ultimate Pro
Truing Stand. Performance has them as a combo for $200, and with a
20% discount -- good deal. Plus, supposedly the truing stand
eliminates the need for a dishing tool.

From what you write, I take it you haven't built many wheels if any.
I don't think that is a good position from which to buy wheel building
equipment because you don't know what is essential or what YOU in
particular need. As others have said, a spoke wrench is possibly the
only tool you need. I agree with that because that is how I started
and only later acquired a crummy truing stand and centering bridge
(dishing tool) from people who had them and gave them to me so I could
build their wheels more easily. I volunteered.

The dishing tool is not essential but one of the better items to have.
Stands with centering probes are not as easily used and are not as
accurate. The standard Campagnolo dishing tool has easy to see double
differential measurement which makes it a highly precise yet simply
readable tool good for a few 0.001" precision.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

[email hidden] wrote:
:: Roger Zoul writes:
::
::: I decided to go with the Ultimate Pro Repair Stand and Ultimate Pro
::: Truing Stand. Performance has them as a combo for $200, and with a
::: 20% discount -- good deal. Plus, supposedly the truing stand
::: eliminates the need for a dishing tool.
::
:: From what you write, I take it you haven't built many wheels if any.

None at all...I'm starting and trying to learn...I was planning on start
with a low-priced wheel first....and I'm trying to build a wheel that will
hold up under my weight (per the "Breaking Spokes" thread) and let me be
free of the LBS for this stuff.

:: I don't think that is a good position from which to buy wheel
:: building equipment because you don't know what is essential or what
:: YOU in particular need. As others have said, a spoke wrench is
:: possibly the only tool you need. I agree with that because that is
:: how I started and only later acquired a crummy truing stand and
:: centering bridge (dishing tool) from people who had them and gave
:: them to me so I could build their wheels more easily. I volunteered.
::
:: The dishing tool is not essential but one of the better items to
:: have. Stands with centering probes are not as easily used and are
:: not as accurate. The standard Campagnolo dishing tool has easy to
:: see double differential measurement which makes it a highly precise
:: yet simply readable tool good for a few 0.001" precision.

So, if I decide to build my own wheel, you're suggesting I go with only a
spoke wrench? Does your book (which I have coming) explain how to do it
with only a spoke wrench? I'm only too happy to not spend money, even
though I'd enjoy having that stand for general bike reasons, not just to
build wheels....

Still, I don't get how you true a wheel without a stand....and how do you
check the dish without the tool? Apparently, one can make reasonable
guesstimates?

Roger Zoul said:

Quoted message said:

From what you write, I take it you haven't built many wheels if any.

Quoted message said:

None at all... I'm starting and trying to learn... I was planning on
start with a low-priced wheel first... and I'm trying to build a
wheel that will hold up under my weight (per the "Breaking Spokes"
thread) and let me be free of the LBS for this stuff.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think that is a good position from which to buy wheel
building equipment because you don't know what is essential or what
YOU in particular need. As others have said, a spoke wrench is
possibly the only tool you need. I agree with that because that is
how I started and only later acquired a crummy truing stand and
centering bridge (dishing tool) from people who had them and gave
them to me so I could build their wheels more easily. I
volunteered.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The dishing tool is not essential but one of the better items to
have. Stands with centering probes are not as easily used and are
not as accurate. The standard Campagnolo dishing tool has easy to
see double differential measurement which makes it a highly precise
yet simply readable tool good for a few 0.001" precision.

Quoted message said:

So, if I decide to build my own wheel, you're suggesting I go with
only a spoke wrench?

Not at all. I suggest you build a few and then realize what it is you
need or prefer. If you have the stuff, I can't say which parts you
don't need but I'm not sure you have the best for your needs. Many
truing stands have useless gimmicks that do no good and others are
hard to use in the position you work in. For instance, the truing
stand I have assumes it is being used on a (high) table at chest level
since the probes are in the lower quadrant of the wheel. I use the
stand on the floor and look down on it. That isn't what I would buy
or construct, but then I can get along without a lot of gimmicks. It
also is not designed to true a wheel with a tire on it and since I do
repairs on it, that is also inconvenient because the probes are hard
to make not drag on the tire.

Quoted message said:

Does your book (which I have coming) explain how to do it with only
a spoke wrench? I'm only too happy to not spend money, even though
I'd enjoy having that stand for general bike reasons, not just to
build wheels...

Of course and the trick there is to use your bicycle frame. That
isn't ideal by any means but you get the job done and can asses how
you would like to do it and buy appropriate equipment.

Quoted message said:

Still, I don't get how you true a wheel without a stand... and how
do you check the dish without the tool? Apparently, one can make
reasonable guesstimates?

Use the bicycle using the brake pad on one side to true and flip the
wheel over to get dish. Lots of folks have done this and still do.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Roger Zoul said:

Still, I don't get how you true a wheel without a stand....and how do you
check the dish without the tool? Apparently, one can make reasonable
guesstimates?

You can use your bike as a rudimentary truing stand, with the brake blocks
as indicators. Check the dish by flipping the wheel around.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Gravity is a myth, the Earth sucks.

Roger Zoul said:

So, if I decide to build my own wheel, you're suggesting I go with only a
spoke wrench? Does your book (which I have coming) explain how to do it
with only a spoke wrench? I'm only too happy to not spend money, even
though I'd enjoy having that stand for general bike reasons, not just to
build wheels....

Still, I don't get how you true a wheel without a stand....and how do you
check the dish without the tool? Apparently, one can make reasonable
guesstimates?

A bicycle frame or fork, which I assume you have, can be used in place
of a truing stand. Use clothespins, wire, or pencils mounted on the
frame/fork tubes as indicators for truing side to side and runout.

Instead of a dishing tool, simply reverse the wheel left for right and
adjust until it's symmetrical.

This approach will yield excellent wheels as long as you are patient and
understand what you are doing. It isn't all that difficult and is quite
satisfying.

If you are building or truing more than a few wheels, the stand and
dishing tool will make the job go quicker, and it will impress onlookers
more than the low-buck method. But they are not necessary.

Adjust tension by comparing with a good wheel, by comparing the sound of
a plucked spoke. Not all that accurate, but it will get you in the
ballpark.

Don't forget to stress relieve the spokes. This step is vital if you
wheels are to last. You probably can't do this well with bare hands, so
wear leather gloves or some such.

Happy wheelbuilding, and let us know how they come out.

The following added for automatic email harvesters!
[email hidden] [email hidden] [email hidden]

--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR

Roger Zoul said:

None at all...I'm starting and trying to learn...I was planning on
start with a low-priced wheel first....and I'm trying to build a
wheel that will hold up under my weight (per the "Breaking Spokes"
thread) and let me be free of the LBS for this stuff.

Taaa-daaah! There is an excellent set of reasons to learn how to
build wheels, plus the personal satisfaction. I enjoy wheel building
and I hope you do too. After you've built a few and are familiar with
the steps involved, it is a quiet and pleasant endeavour- probably not
unlike knitting or tying flies.

Quoted message said:

So, if I decide to build my own wheel, you're suggesting I go with
only a spoke wrench? Does your book (which I have coming) explain
how to do it with only a spoke wrench? I'm only too happy to not
spend money, even though I'd enjoy having that stand for general
bike reasons, not just to build wheels....

Still, I don't get how you true a wheel without a stand....and how
do you check the dish without the tool? Apparently, one can make
reasonable guesstimates?

Well, you can use your bike as a truing stand. I built several sets
of wheels that way. A truing stand is less cumbersome, to be sure,
but using a bike works fine. A dishing tool can be homemade and be
quite accurate.

Last summer in France in a town called Fougeres, I saw a bike
mechanic with a portable pair of truing stands he'd made out of the
fork and rear triangle of an old bike. They clamped into a vice and
away he went. It seemed plenty accurate. So that's another option-
find an old frame and cut it apart, using the fork and rear triangle
as truing stands. Of course, for the wheel to be dished correctly
these items have to also be in correct alignment... ;-)

<snip>

Quoted message said:

A bicycle frame or fork, which I assume you have, can be used in place
of a truing stand. Use clothespins, wire, or pencils mounted on the
frame/fork tubes as indicators for truing side to side and runout.

As Jobst, Ben, and Ted said, it's possible to build excellent wheels
with only a spoke wrench and a bike frame for a truing stand. I've
built many wheels this way. I finally bought a truing stand for home
use when I found a somewhat decrepit stand at a swap meet for $10.

Good tools help you build your confidence without having to deal with
improvised solutions. Once you've *got* that confidence, you can
improvise until the cows come home. I learned while working at a bike
shop- ask around and see if you can bribe a *good* mechanic into
showing you the basics. A good, patient mechanic is worth his (or her)
weight in beer.

Jobst's book is excellent on several levels, including instructions.
Since I started practicing his techniques, I haven't broken a single
spoke.

Jeff

Roger Zoul said:

John Everett wrote:
::
:: While most these things qualify as "nice to haves", I've built a few
:: wheels over the years and my only special tool is a spoke wrench.

Wow?

From some of my postings over the years as found via google groups:

From 2003-05-07:

"I've build a number of wheels and I don't own a truing stand nor
dishing tool. I build and true rears in the rear triangle of a bike
and fronts in an old fork which I mount in my work stand by the
steerer tube."

From 1997/12/30:

"At risk of drawing flames, let me suggest that a flat surface and a
machinists rule (or probably just a regular ruler) does an adequate
job as a dishing tool. Put the wheel (skewer removed) on the flat
surface with one section of the rim in contact with the surface.
Measure the height of the rim 180° opposite, then flip it over and
remeasure. If the measurements are equal (assuming an equal amount of
axle extends beyond the locknut on each side, and the rim is running
true), the wheel is properly dished.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Not at all. I suggest you build a few and then realize what it is you
need or prefer. If you have the stuff, I can't say which parts you
don't need but I'm not sure you have the best for your needs. Many
truing stands have useless gimmicks that do no good and others are
hard to use in the position you work in.

Have you ever thought about making Jobst Brandt Designer wheeling building
tools in cooperation with park or someone? I bet you could make a whole
bunch of money making tools people can use.

JF

Jim Flom said:

Quoted message said:

Not at all. I suggest you build a few and then realize what it is
you need or prefer. If you have the stuff, I can't say which parts
you don't need but I'm not sure you have the best for your needs.
Many truing stands have useless gimmicks that do no good and others
are hard to use in the position you work in.

Quoted message said:

Have you ever thought about making Jobst Brandt Designer wheeling
building tools in cooperation with park or someone? I bet you could
make a whole bunch of money making tools people can use.

The only tool I designed was the tensiometer shown in the book and
that instrument, built by Avocet, is "out of print" because at the
time few people saw a need for it and those who used it did not
appreciate the features it had. It supports the spoke from the same
side as the measurement so spoke thickness does not enter the
measurement, it can be zeroed as it is applied to the spoke to be
measured, it uses ball bearing spoke support so that cosine error of
spoke deflection does not cause frictional errors, it is a one handed
instrument using a high precision dial gauge so that the test load can
be small and not alter existing tension.

DT sold most of the production run before deciding to make their own
in Switzerland. Their instrument does not encompass all of these
features.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]