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Buying a MTB helmet from the US

Started by Dre · · Last activity · 42 posts · 2,496 views

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
18 October 2007
Last activity
25 October 2007
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Dre
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  1. Hi all, I'm interested in buying a full face helmet. Thing is they are very
    expensive here. I can get the equivalent 661 full face helmet from the US
    for about half the price for the exact same unit locally here. If I did
    however get one in from the US, I would end up getting a much much higher
    model with higher ratings (dot for example, but these are not Australian
    approvals) as the price would be the same as a lower spec model sold here.

    The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian approved.
    My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from the Australian
    approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this?? Would I not be
    allowed to race for example? If all I ever do is personal/fun riding out in
    the bush, what is the problem using a non Aus approved helmet?

    Thanks for any info.

    Cheers Dre

  2. Dre said:

    The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian approved.
    My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from the Australian
    approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??

    Legalities. Assuming we're talking about the same hats here of course.

    Quoted message said:

    Would I not be allowed to race for example?

    If they knew about it, likely not. As the organisers are held together with
    insurance to cover you for the event, they likely won't (insure you) in the
    event of injury, if they found out it wasn't Australian approved.

    Insurance companies eat this small technical stuff up for breakfast. That
    said, knowing this, the event organisers won't let you through the front door
    without that silver sticker with the numbers on it.
    And knowing the insurance won't cover it, the organisers will have to -
    except they simply can't afford to. So you don't race.

    Quoted message said:

    If all I ever do is personal/fun riding out in
    the bush, what is the problem using a non Aus approved helmet?

    Legalities again, I'll cover all the bases here.

    On public marked roads, the road rules say you need to wear an australian
    approved helmet. That said, in some areas, the wearing of one is not policed,
    but that's another issue.
    Injury coverage changes depends on who did what and how you're covered. The
    wearing (or not) of an approved helmet will play a part on who pays depending
    on (insurance) coverage.

    On private land, anything goes, you wan wear a salad bowl if you want, you
    are your own boss and can do anything you like. Since the only one
    responsible for you, is you, you pay up regardless of type of hat (or lack
    thereof).

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails, since
    they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again, since you're
    the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest to wear an
    effective hat.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

  3. On 2007-10-18, John Tserkezis (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:
    Dre said:

    The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian approved.
    My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from the Australian
    approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??


    ....

    Quoted message said:

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails, since
    they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again, since you're
    the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest to wear an
    effective hat.

    And if you are able to get a higher specced helmet, cheaper, from the
    US, then trust your head to the cheaper more effective US model
    helmet. Stupid laws; stupid protectionalist trade policies. QED.

    --
    TimC
    That's not a tau-neutrino in my pocket; I've got a hadron.

  4. "John Tserkezis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Dre said:

    The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian approved.
    My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from the Australian
    approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??

    Legalities. Assuming we're talking about the same hats here of course.

    Quoted message said:

    Would I not be allowed to race for example?

    If they knew about it, likely not. As the organisers are held together
    with insurance to cover you for the event, they likely won't (insure you)
    in the event of injury, if they found out it wasn't Australian approved.

    Insurance companies eat this small technical stuff up for breakfast.
    That said, knowing this, the event organisers won't let you through the
    front door without that silver sticker with the numbers on it.
    And knowing the insurance won't cover it, the organisers will have to -
    except they simply can't afford to. So you don't race.

    Quoted message said:

    If all I ever do is personal/fun riding out in the bush, what is the
    problem using a non Aus approved helmet?

    Legalities again, I'll cover all the bases here.

    On public marked roads, the road rules say you need to wear an australian
    approved helmet. That said, in some areas, the wearing of one is not
    policed, but that's another issue.
    Injury coverage changes depends on who did what and how you're covered.
    The wearing (or not) of an approved helmet will play a part on who pays
    depending on (insurance) coverage.

    On private land, anything goes, you wan wear a salad bowl if you want,
    you are your own boss and can do anything you like. Since the only one
    responsible for you, is you, you pay up regardless of type of hat (or lack
    thereof).

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails, since
    they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again, since
    you're the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest to wear
    an effective hat.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

    Thanks very much for a very detailed response!

    Yes the helmets are exactly the same in the US as they are here, same name,
    model number, everything, apart from the Australian approval.

    Since I would only wear this helmet off road on specific mtb trails (not
    even fire trials) in the bush I have a bit of trouble paying more than
    double for the same thing from the US...

    For normal riding I use my normal type helmet and it is Aus approved. The
    full face I'm looking to buy is only for when I decide to go for the big
    stuff, big jumps, big drops etc...

    hmmmmm, decisions decisions!

    Cheers Dre

  5. In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:31:24 +1100

    Dre said:

    Yes the helmets are exactly the same in the US as they are here, same name,
    model number, everything, apart from the Australian approval.

    dunno about pushbike helmets but that is not always the case with
    motorcycle helmets.

    There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
    and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
    *failed* the Oz test.

    Zebee

  6. Dre said:

    "John Tserkezis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Dre said:

    The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian approved.
    My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from the Australian
    approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??


    Legalities. Assuming we're talking about the same hats here of course.

    Quoted message said:

    Would I not be allowed to race for example?


    If they knew about it, likely not. As the organisers are held together
    with insurance to cover you for the event, they likely won't (insure you)
    in the event of injury, if they found out it wasn't Australian approved.

    Insurance companies eat this small technical stuff up for breakfast.
    That said, knowing this, the event organisers won't let you through the
    front door without that silver sticker with the numbers on it.
    And knowing the insurance won't cover it, the organisers will have to -
    except they simply can't afford to. So you don't race.

    Quoted message said:

    If all I ever do is personal/fun riding out in the bush, what is the
    problem using a non Aus approved helmet?


    Legalities again, I'll cover all the bases here.

    On public marked roads, the road rules say you need to wear an australian
    approved helmet. That said, in some areas, the wearing of one is not
    policed, but that's another issue.
    Injury coverage changes depends on who did what and how you're covered.
    The wearing (or not) of an approved helmet will play a part on who pays
    depending on (insurance) coverage.

    On private land, anything goes, you wan wear a salad bowl if you want,
    you are your own boss and can do anything you like. Since the only one
    responsible for you, is you, you pay up regardless of type of hat (or lack
    thereof).

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails, since
    they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again, since
    you're the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest to wear
    an effective hat.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

    Thanks very much for a very detailed response!

    Yes the helmets are exactly the same in the US as they are here, same name,
    model number, everything, apart from the Australian approval.

    Since I would only wear this helmet off road on specific mtb trails (not
    even fire trials) in the bush I have a bit of trouble paying more than
    double for the same thing from the US...

    For normal riding I use my normal type helmet and it is Aus approved. The
    full face I'm looking to buy is only for when I decide to go for the big
    stuff, big jumps, big drops etc...

    hmmmmm, decisions decisions!

    Cheers Dre


    Have you checked out the postage costs from the US...it can be on the
    outrageous side.
    Halcyon

  7. TimC said:

    On 2007-10-18, John Tserkezis (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:
    Dre said:

    The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian approved.
    My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from the Australian
    approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails, since
    they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again, since you're
    the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest to wear an
    effective hat.

    And if you are able to get a higher specced helmet, cheaper, from the
    US, then trust your head to the cheaper more effective US model
    helmet. Stupid laws; stupid protectionalist trade policies. QED.

    What rules would you propose Tim?

  8. "TimC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 2007-10-18, John Tserkezis (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:
    Dre said:

    The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian
    approved.
    My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from the
    Australian
    approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails,
    since
    they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again, since
    you're
    the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest to wear an
    effective hat.

    And if you are able to get a higher specced helmet, cheaper, from the
    US, then trust your head to the cheaper more effective US model
    helmet. Stupid laws; stupid protectionalist trade policies. QED.

    --
    TimC
    That's not a tau-neutrino in my pocket; I've got a hadron.

    Thats *exactly* what I am thinking. For the same money I can get a much
    better helmet from the states than one down here. The equivalent helmet
    locally probably cost close to 3 million dollars here 🙂 (maybe a *slight*
    exaggeration, LOL)

    Cheers Dre

  9. "Zebee Johnstone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:31:24 +1100

    Dre said:

    Yes the helmets are exactly the same in the US as they are here, same
    name,
    model number, everything, apart from the Australian approval.

    dunno about pushbike helmets but that is not always the case with
    motorcycle helmets.

    There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
    and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
    *failed* the Oz test.

    Zebee

    Noted, thanks for that.

    For the record I am talking about the 661 brand and range of helmets.

    Cheers Dre

  10. "Halcyon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Dre said:

    "John Tserkezis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Dre wrote:

    > The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian
    > approved. My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from
    > the Australian approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??
    Legalities. Assuming we're talking about the same hats here of course.

    > Would I not be allowed to race for example?
    If they knew about it, likely not. As the organisers are held together
    with insurance to cover you for the event, they likely won't (insure
    you) in the event of injury, if they found out it wasn't Australian
    approved.

    Insurance companies eat this small technical stuff up for breakfast.
    That said, knowing this, the event organisers won't let you through the
    front door without that silver sticker with the numbers on it.
    And knowing the insurance won't cover it, the organisers will have to -
    except they simply can't afford to. So you don't race.

    > If all I ever do is personal/fun riding out in the bush, what is the
    > problem using a non Aus approved helmet?
    Legalities again, I'll cover all the bases here.

    On public marked roads, the road rules say you need to wear an
    australian approved helmet. That said, in some areas, the wearing of
    one is not policed, but that's another issue.
    Injury coverage changes depends on who did what and how you're covered.
    The wearing (or not) of an approved helmet will play a part on who pays
    depending on (insurance) coverage.

    On private land, anything goes, you wan wear a salad bowl if you want,
    you are your own boss and can do anything you like. Since the only one
    responsible for you, is you, you pay up regardless of type of hat (or
    lack thereof).

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails,
    since they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again,
    since you're the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest
    to wear an effective hat.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

    Thanks very much for a very detailed response!

    Yes the helmets are exactly the same in the US as they are here, same
    name, model number, everything, apart from the Australian approval.

    Since I would only wear this helmet off road on specific mtb trails (not
    even fire trials) in the bush I have a bit of trouble paying more than
    double for the same thing from the US...

    For normal riding I use my normal type helmet and it is Aus approved.
    The full face I'm looking to buy is only for when I decide to go for the
    big stuff, big jumps, big drops etc...

    hmmmmm, decisions decisions!

    Cheers Dre


    Have you checked out the postage costs from the US...it can be on the
    outrageous side.
    Halcyon

    Yep, all up including postage (postage of $55aus inc handling) it still
    works out *just* over half price, awesome savings when you are talking about
    a $500 helmet!

    Cheers Dre

  11. "Zebee Johnstone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:31:24 +1100

    Dre said:

    Yes the helmets are exactly the same in the US as they are here, same
    name,
    model number, everything, apart from the Australian approval.

    dunno about pushbike helmets but that is not always the case with
    motorcycle helmets.

    There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
    and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
    *failed* the Oz test.

    Zebee

    Btw, would you be comfortable naming that brand of motorcycle helmet? so I
    can steer clear...

    Cheers Dre

  12. Zebee Johnstone said:

    There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
    and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
    *failed* the Oz test.

    They're the same thing. The Australian Standards AS1698 for motorcycle
    helmets means it needs to pass a series of tests according to the standard
    before being passed.

    Basically, the australian importer brings a couple in for evaluation and
    testing. One is sent to a testing lab that does that kind of thing, and if it
    passes, they go through the formality of ordering stickers for them. (there
    may be a couple of helmets, as some of the tests are destructive).

    You probably know all this.

    Just because one helmet is ok in the US and not here, is not because the
    helmet is different, (they're all ordered from the same place regardless) but
    the test procedures.

    There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
    US, but won't pass here.

    It only means the _tests_ are different.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

  13. "Dorfus Dippintush" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    TimC said:

    On 2007-10-18, John Tserkezis (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:

    Dre wrote:

    > The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian
    > approved. My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from
    > the Australian approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails,
    since they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again,
    since you're the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest
    to wear an effective hat.

    And if you are able to get a higher specced helmet, cheaper, from the
    US, then trust your head to the cheaper more effective US model
    helmet. Stupid laws; stupid protectionalist trade policies. QED.

    What rules would you propose Tim?

    No rules! 🙂

    Cheers Dre

  14. "John Tserkezis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Zebee Johnstone said:

    There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
    and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
    *failed* the Oz test.

    They're the same thing. The Australian Standards AS1698 for motorcycle
    helmets means it needs to pass a series of tests according to the standard
    before being passed.

    Basically, the australian importer brings a couple in for evaluation and
    testing. One is sent to a testing lab that does that kind of thing, and
    if it passes, they go through the formality of ordering stickers for them.
    (there may be a couple of helmets, as some of the tests are destructive).

    You probably know all this.

    Just because one helmet is ok in the US and not here, is not because the
    helmet is different, (they're all ordered from the same place regardless)
    but the test procedures.

    There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in
    the US, but won't pass here.

    It only means the _tests_ are different.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

    Good information!

    If however the same models (in fact the entire 661 full face range is
    avaiable in both the US and here) are sold both here and in the US, its a
    pretty good indication that the US ones would pass the Australian tests IMO.

    hmmmm, its more and more looking like I'll be getting a US one and not
    making it common knowledge where I got it from 🙂

    Cheers Dre

  15. Dre said:

    If however the same models (in fact the entire 661 full face range is
    avaiable in both the US and here) are sold both here and in the US, its a
    pretty good indication that the US ones would pass the Australian tests IMO.

    Yes, they are the same thing after all.

    You don't get anyone in the US getting an Australian accreditation for
    testing of equipment simply because they don't care. And neither should they,
    what would they gain?
    Likewise, you don't get australians looking at US testing because it won't
    mean a damn here.

    That and, it's quite expensive.

    I was at a bike show several years back, and the seller at the time said
    they were NOT Australian Standards tested, and were selling them accordingly
    cheaper.

    Turns out some time later, someone forked out for the testing anyway, and
    continued to sell those at more "normal" price points.

    Quoted message said:

    hmmmm, its more and more looking like I'll be getting a US one and not
    making it common knowledge where I got it from 🙂

    Look. There are several reasons why there are accreditations on helmets,
    most involve money:

    The road rules say you must wear an AS2063 approved helmet on the road or
    you will be fined. A simple check of the tamperproof sticker will prove that
    on the road.
    In the event the sticker was removed for whatever reason, you pay up.

    During injury, the insurance company says among other condtions, competitors
    must be wearing an AS2063 approved helmet or they won't cover them. In turn,
    the organisers don't want to be out of pocket due to injuries (that's why they
    have insurance!) so they enforce this by checking on entry.
    If something was missed during the initial checks, the insurance company
    will verify the validity of the helmet (among other thing). If anything is
    amiss, they throw up their hands and say 'where not touching it'.

    On a similar note, something closer to what I used to do, a piece of noise
    measuring equipment was used to verify a noisy air-conditioner. So they take
    the owners of the air-conditioner to court.
    The defendant asks to see if the equipment was used correctly, and when it
    was last checked. A sticker verifies it was last checked to whatever relevant
    AS standards, and the certificate is produced, proving the test was performed,
    passed and last done within the time limit.
    If anything was amiss, such as the certificate couldn't be produced, the
    case is thrown out.

    As far as the end-user is concerned, all it does is prove the samples sent
    out for testing passed the tests.
    You don't know if it _barely_ made it, or if it passed with so many flying
    colours it may as well be freaking rainbow.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

  16. In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:52:14 +1100

    Dre said:

    "Zebee Johnstone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:


    There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
    and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
    *failed* the Oz test.

    Btw, would you be comfortable naming that brand of motorcycle helmet? so I
    can steer clear...

    It is no longer made - it was an early version of the BMW System
    Helmet.

    So no, no cheapie or fly by night. The problem apparently was that
    the Oz standard required more penetration resistance than the Euro
    standard did. It is also different to the DOT and Snell standards but
    I can't recall the exact differences.

    The bod who does the testing for Australian compliance is in Sydney
    and will wax eloquent about all this if given beer.

    Zebee

  17. In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:11:43 +1000

    John Tserkezis said:


    There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
    US, but won't pass here.

    It only means the _tests_ are different.

    In this case, they changed the helmet to pass Oz standards.

    I dunno if anyone else has done that, but BMW did.

    Zebee

  18. In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:25:39 +1000

    John Tserkezis said:


    As far as the end-user is concerned, all it does is prove the samples sent
    out for testing passed the tests.
    You don't know if it _barely_ made it, or if it passed with so many flying
    colours it may as well be freaking rainbow.

    can't speak for pushbike helmets, the guy who does the testing for
    motorcycle helmets says that in his experience the cheapies seem to do
    no worse than the expensive ones. That as far as he can tell you are
    paying for finish and fittings, not for increased safety.

    Zebee

  19. Zebee Johnstone said:
    Quoted message said:

    There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
    US, but won't pass here.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It only means the _tests_ are different.

    Quoted message said:

    In this case, they changed the helmet to pass Oz standards.
    I dunno if anyone else has done that, but BMW did.

    What part of the helmet was changed? I really don't see anything major once
    initial testing is done and production has already started...

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>

  20. In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:01:43 +1000

    John Tserkezis said:
    Zebee Johnstone said:
    Quoted message said:

    There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
    US, but won't pass here.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It only means the _tests_ are different.

    Quoted message said:

    In this case, they changed the helmet to pass Oz standards.
    I dunno if anyone else has done that, but BMW did.

    What part of the helmet was changed? I really don't see anything major once
    initial testing is done and production has already started...

    THey added extra internal material to the skull to pass the
    penetration test. made the lid heavier. System 2 I think, but it may
    have been the original System 1.

    Zebee

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