Cagoule and over trouser recommendations?

Peter Clinch said:

Malcolm said:

I need some personal recommendations for a large (plenty of room)
waterproof jacket that takes up very little packing space, but IS
comfortable to wear unlike that [censored] that cant breath and you end up
soaked from the inside...🙁

There's breathable and there's breathable. You won't do /much/ better
looking at a combination of low bulk and breathability than Goretex
Paclite, and several people make jackets in it. Try them out for size
yourself and see if the cut is right for you: anybody else will be a
different shape so what they think isn't necessarily much use.

Goretex Paclite isn't the only game in town, and it's generally not
cheap. Montane and Rab do well specified light jackets in eVent, but
those are also (justifiably) not cheap. Stuff like Mountain Equipment's
Drilite Plus gear is light and reasonably priced and has good
breathability, but probably won't last as well: you choose, you lose.

Quoted message said:

I also need over trousers and a day sack. So any tips or thoughts you
might have would be most welcome.

Overtrousers are a Work Of Stan in most cases, IMHO. I do have some and
occasionally use them, but for me the overriding important point is not
taking up much space or weight as I only use them a couple of times in a
given year. I use ME Drilite ones with a full zip, so I can put them on
without taking off boots, crampons or skis, but full side zips aren't
necessary for general use as long as there's a half-zip to get past
boots. Again, it's important to try things on yourself: if the legs are
too long relative to the waist then the material, cost and construction
quality are all rather moot points!

And the same is true of rucksacks. Try them on, and make sure you try
them on with a representative weight. Match the features on the bag to
the ones you need: my winter daypack is tougher than my summer one and
lets me stow a shovel, skis and axes, but in summer that's usually just
dead weight.

Quoted message said:

Also kit,brands to avoid would be just as useful as well as decent
websites to buy from and ones to avoid.

Don't buy from websites if it's stuff where fit is important and you
don't know what different brands fit you well. Saving a fiver but
getting something that doesn't fit as well as it might is a false
economy, IMHO.
If you get your hands on nasty stuff you can tell it's nasty, which you
can do in a shop but not on a website. Similarly, good shops and bad
shops are usually self-evident when you're in them.

There aren't really any truly duff, you should always avoid these,
brands that spring to mind apart from things that simply don't fit.
There's downmarket stuff, certainly, but you shouldn't assume it's bad.
Wynnster is an example of a downmarket brand, but my gf was wearing
Wynnster gaiters and mountain cap through one of the toughest days I've
ever spent outside and they did just fine.
I've also spent days on the hill where I've been drier and happier under
a golfing brolly than others in Big Brand serious mountain Goretex rain
gear from head to toe, because umbrellas do rain better than jackets if
you've got a spare hand and it isn't windy.

Ha I did often think "why don't walkers use brollies" but decided it
must be uncool, like that matters!

Thnx.

Malcolm said:

I need some personal recommendations for a large (plenty of room)
waterproof jacket that takes up very little packing space, but IS
comfortable to wear unlike that [censored] that cant breath and you end up
soaked from the inside...🙁

There's breathable and there's breathable. You won't do /much/ better
looking at a combination of low bulk and breathability than Goretex
Paclite, and several people make jackets in it. Try them out for size
yourself and see if the cut is right for you: anybody else will be a
different shape so what they think isn't necessarily much use.

Goretex Paclite isn't the only game in town, and it's generally not
cheap. Montane and Rab do well specified light jackets in eVent, but
those are also (justifiably) not cheap. Stuff like Mountain Equipment's
Drilite Plus gear is light and reasonably priced and has good
breathability, but probably won't last as well: you choose, you lose.

Quoted message said:

I also need over trousers and a day sack. So any tips or thoughts you
might have would be most welcome.

Overtrousers are a Work Of Stan in most cases, IMHO. I do have some and
occasionally use them, but for me the overriding important point is not
taking up much space or weight as I only use them a couple of times in a
given year. I use ME Drilite ones with a full zip, so I can put them on
without taking off boots, crampons or skis, but full side zips aren't
necessary for general use as long as there's a half-zip to get past
boots. Again, it's important to try things on yourself: if the legs are
too long relative to the waist then the material, cost and construction
quality are all rather moot points!

And the same is true of rucksacks. Try them on, and make sure you try
them on with a representative weight. Match the features on the bag to
the ones you need: my winter daypack is tougher than my summer one and
lets me stow a shovel, skis and axes, but in summer that's usually just
dead weight.

Quoted message said:

Also kit,brands to avoid would be just as useful as well as decent
websites to buy from and ones to avoid.

Don't buy from websites if it's stuff where fit is important and you
don't know what different brands fit you well. Saving a fiver but
getting something that doesn't fit as well as it might is a false
economy, IMHO.
If you get your hands on nasty stuff you can tell it's nasty, which you
can do in a shop but not on a website. Similarly, good shops and bad
shops are usually self-evident when you're in them.

There aren't really any truly duff, you should always avoid these,
brands that spring to mind apart from things that simply don't fit.
There's downmarket stuff, certainly, but you shouldn't assume it's bad.
Wynnster is an example of a downmarket brand, but my gf was wearing
Wynnster gaiters and mountain cap through one of the toughest days I've
ever spent outside and they did just fine.
I've also spent days on the hill where I've been drier and happier under
a golfing brolly than others in Big Brand serious mountain Goretex rain
gear from head to toe, because umbrellas do rain better than jackets if
you've got a spare hand and it isn't windy.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Malcolm said:

Ha I did often think "why don't walkers use brollies" but decided it
must be uncool, like that matters!

In the UK, especially up a mountain, it's often too windy (partly the
thing gets unmanageable, or even destroyed, and partly the wind just
blows the rain at too much of an angle to allow much protection). And
if it's too windy to deploy them then they're just dead weight and
you'll get soaked unless you have a jacket too. I don't /often/ carry
one, but if it's calm and looks like heavy rain is a possibility then
it's a good bit of kit (but does need a jacket in the bag to back it up).

Aside from the very real wind problem noted above, plus taking up a hand
to use, people mostly don't carry them because they're just not on the
radar for walking kit for most people. I've been asked by people wetter
than I was if I was "taking the [censored] or something", and then I pointed
out I was the dry one, and then you get a "something is not right here"
expression crossing their faces...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Malcolm said:

Ha I did often think "why don't walkers use brollies" but decided it
must be uncool, like that matters!

In the UK, especially up a mountain, it's often too windy (partly the
thing gets unmanageable, or even destroyed, and partly the wind just
blows the rain at too much of an angle to allow much protection). And
if it's too windy to deploy them then they're just dead weight and
you'll get soaked unless you have a jacket too. I don't /often/ carry
one, but if it's calm and looks like heavy rain is a possibility then
it's a good bit of kit (but does need a jacket in the bag to back it up).

Aside from the very real wind problem noted above, plus taking up a hand
to use, people mostly don't carry them because they're just not on the
radar for walking kit for most people. I've been asked by people wetter
than I was if I was "taking the [censored] or something", and then I pointed
out I was the dry one, and then you get a "something is not right here"
expression crossing their faces...

Ha ha ha.

Malcolm said:

Peter Clinch said:

Malcolm said:

Ha I did often think "why don't walkers use brollies" but decided it
must be uncool, like that matters!

In the UK, especially up a mountain, it's often too windy (partly the
thing gets unmanageable, or even destroyed, and partly the wind just
blows the rain at too much of an angle to allow much protection). And
if it's too windy to deploy them then they're just dead weight and
you'll get soaked unless you have a jacket too. I don't /often/ carry
one, but if it's calm and looks like heavy rain is a possibility then
it's a good bit of kit (but does need a jacket in the bag to back it up).

Aside from the very real wind problem noted above, plus taking up a hand
to use, people mostly don't carry them because they're just not on the
radar for walking kit for most people. I've been asked by people wetter
than I was if I was "taking the [censored] or something", and then I pointed
out I was the dry one, and then you get a "something is not right here"
expression crossing their faces...

Ha ha ha.

What about a decent map holder?

Peter Clinch said:

Malcolm said:

What about a decent map holder?

Ortlieb's are a Gold Standard, though laminated maps are a useful option
if you can afford them.

If you decide against the Ortlieb for some reason, get something that's
transparent on both sides, as that way you can see over the fold in the
map and get twice as much effective viewing area at a given size. Neck
cords are, IMHO, not really worth it. If you need the map regularly
then have it in your hand with a thumb on your approximate location, and
that way you not only have immediate access to the map but an immediate
start on where you are. Update continually and you'll have solved 99%
of navigation problems. If you /don't/ need the map regularly then if
it's round your neck it just gets in the way and is susceptible to winds.

Zip-type seals (such as on Cascade Seal-Line) tend to rip at the ends
after a while. Cascade will replace them free under guarantee, but
that's no use if your map is getting soaked on a ghastly day! Ortlieb
use a combination roll and velcro, which is low tech, simple, and very
effective.

Thnx.

Malcolm said:

What about a decent map holder?

Ortlieb's are a Gold Standard, though laminated maps are a useful option
if you can afford them.

If you decide against the Ortlieb for some reason, get something that's
transparent on both sides, as that way you can see over the fold in the
map and get twice as much effective viewing area at a given size. Neck
cords are, IMHO, not really worth it. If you need the map regularly
then have it in your hand with a thumb on your approximate location, and
that way you not only have immediate access to the map but an immediate
start on where you are. Update continually and you'll have solved 99%
of navigation problems. If you /don't/ need the map regularly then if
it's round your neck it just gets in the way and is susceptible to winds.

Zip-type seals (such as on Cascade Seal-Line) tend to rip at the ends
after a while. Cascade will replace them free under guarantee, but
that's no use if your map is getting soaked on a ghastly day! Ortlieb
use a combination roll and velcro, which is low tech, simple, and very
effective.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Malcolm said:

I also need over trousers and a day sack. So any tips or thoughts you
might have would be most welcome.

[snip]

Trail March 2005 (delivered today) has a review of over-trousers

Allan

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Malcolm <[email hidden]> said
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've also spent days on the hill where I've been drier and happier under
a golfing brolly than others in Big Brand serious mountain Goretex rain
gear from head to toe, because umbrellas do rain better than jackets if
you've got a spare hand and it isn't windy.

Ha I did often think "why don't walkers use brollies" but decided it
must be uncool, like that matters!

Nope, it's the lack of a spare hand, plus the fact that when it's
tipping down on the hills it is often (95% of the time) too windy to
manage a brolly. IME.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Malcolm <[email hidden]> said
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've also spent days on the hill where I've been drier and happier under
a golfing brolly than others in Big Brand serious mountain Goretex rain
gear from head to toe, because umbrellas do rain better than jackets if
you've got a spare hand and it isn't windy.

Ha I did often think "why don't walkers use brollies" but decided it
must be uncool, like that matters!

Nope, it's the lack of a spare hand, plus the fact that when it's
tipping down on the hills it is often (95% of the time) too windy to
manage a brolly. IME.

Maybe theres a market to recycle some of those old Amstrad sky dishes,
attached to an old german helmet or something.........

Malcolm said:

Maybe theres a market to recycle some of those old Amstrad sky dishes,
attached to an old german helmet or something.........

1. Get your old externally-framed rucksac from attic
2. Steal collapsible raincover from baby's pram
3. Clip raincover to side frames of rucksac
4. When it's fine, collapse raincover against rucksac
5. When it rains, tilt raincover forward over head

-adrian

In article <[email hidden]>, Malcolm
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

What about a decent map holder?

Take the wife ...:-)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Malcolm
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

What about a decent map holder?

Take the wife ...:-)

She's already got the flask and butties and binoculars to carry!

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

In article <[email hidden]>, Rooney
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Malcolm
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

What about a decent map holder?

Take the wife ...:-)

She's already got the flask and butties and binoculars to carry!

That's why Anne's sack was always heavier than mine :-)

Strange, she was always glad when lunch time came around !
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk