Campagnolo compatibility

Señor Chris said:

Can I use Campag levers (probably Mirage) with SRAM and/or Shimano
drivetrain components ? 9 speed rear, triple front.

Sometimes. Google for "Shimergo" to find the CTC page describing some of
the combinations which work. You may need to purchase a "shiftmate" device
to make a 9-speed to 9-speed cross-over combination work.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Señor Chris said:

Can I use Campag levers (probably Mirage) with SRAM and/or Shimano
drivetrain components ? 9 speed rear, triple front.

I presume you want brifters without the spaghetti hanging in the wind
or in the way of a bar bag. Shimano are working on this...

The latest Dura Ace kit (currently in prototype testing with the pros)
has concealled gear and brake cables.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/apr08/wevelgem08/tech.php?id=/tech/2008/features/wevelgem_tech108
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Señor Chris said:

Can I use Campag levers (probably Mirage) with SRAM and/or Shimano
drivetrain components ? 9 speed rear, triple front.

2006 and older ergopower non-indexed for the front der (or at least
indexed in such small increments as makes no odds.

AIUI dor 9 speed indexing the ratio of cable pull to rear der travel
is too different for the two to work together without extra hardware
such as a shiftmate. I switched to 9-speed ergos for cost reasons
when my STIs failed. I swapped out the rear der whch was still
cheaper then new STIs but kept the chain, cassete/hub and front der.
I have not had problems with shift performance

hth
james

In article said:

Señor Chris said:

Can I use Campag levers (probably Mirage) with SRAM and/or Shimano
drivetrain components ? 9 speed rear, triple front.

Sometimes. Google for "Shimergo" to find the CTC page describing some of
the combinations which work.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946
Shimano 9 speed rear is listed as working with Campagnolo 10 speed shifters
and the cable rerouted ("Hubbub modification"😉.

http://www.hearingoffice.com/download/hearing/10_Speed_Conversion_screen.pdf
is worth a look too. Also
http://www.velonews.com/article/73404/can-you-run-campy-shifters-with-a-sram-drivetrain-sure-why

Quoted message said:

You may need to purchase a "shiftmate" device
to make a 9-speed to 9-speed cross-over combination work.

That's http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm - almost certainly a better
solution.

Having said that, this weekend I finally got around to fitting some older
spacing 9-speed Campagnolo levers on my old road bike, currently with Shimano
7-speed cassette (and Shimano derailleur).

The rear seems to work fine, but the left thumb tab doesn't change front
ring until wound right down to the bottom of the lever. Is this normal for
Ergos, a result of mixing systems, or a result of cheap used kit being a
bit worn? I suspect the latter, but I'd be interested in comments.

Señor Chris said:

Can I use Campag levers (probably Mirage) with SRAM and/or Shimano
drivetrain components ? 9 speed rear, triple front.

Unless employing one of the alternative bodges mentioned on CTC, etc, a
Campag rear derailleur and Campag-compatible cassette will be required.

The chainset doesn't matter, and probably your front derailleur will be OK
too.

~PB

Señor Chris said:

Can I use Campag levers (probably Mirage) with SRAM and/or Shimano
drivetrain components ? 9 speed rear, triple front.

At end of 2006, Campag changed the design of their front shift lever; older
ones are great and work with nearly any front shift mechanism and triples.
Newer type are a lot more limited.

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Alan Braggins said:

Having said that, this weekend I finally got around to fitting some
older spacing 9-speed Campagnolo levers on my old road bike,
currently with Shimano 7-speed cassette (and Shimano derailleur).

The rear seems to work fine, but the left thumb tab doesn't change
front ring until wound right down to the bottom of the lever. Is this
normal for Ergos, a result of mixing systems, or a result of cheap
used kit being a
bit worn? I suspect the latter, but I'd be interested in comments.

It's normal for these pre-QS left-hand levers to need more than one click to
change gear. The number required depends on components and setup. Have a
go with the mech adjustments and cable tension if you want to try and
improve it. (A single click is used to move the mech a small amount to
trim).

The lever won't be worn if the "clicks" feel crisp. Actually it wouldn't
click at all if it was worn out. It would then work like a friction-shifter
instead of micro-indexed.

~PB

In article said:

Alan Braggins said:

Having said that, this weekend I finally got around to fitting some
older spacing 9-speed Campagnolo levers on my old road bike,
currently with Shimano 7-speed cassette (and Shimano derailleur).

The rear seems to work fine, but the left thumb tab doesn't change
front ring until wound right down to the bottom of the lever. Is this
normal for Ergos, a result of mixing systems, or a result of cheap
used kit being a
bit worn? I suspect the latter, but I'd be interested in comments.

It's normal for these pre-QS left-hand levers to need more than one click to
change gear. The number required depends on components and setup. Have a
go with the mech adjustments and cable tension if you want to try and
improve it. (A single click is used to move the mech a small amount to
trim).

The problem isn't needing more than one click, which I expected, but
that the left hand lever first click on the thumb lever is much further
down than the right hand one (but the levers inside the brake lever
seem to work much more symmetrically).
But it could well be a cable tension problem. I'll go and have another look.

Pete Biggs said:

It's normal for these pre-QS left-hand levers to need more than one click to
change gear. The number required depends on components and setup. Have a
go with the mech adjustments and cable tension if you want to try and
improve it. (A single click is used to move the mech a small amount to
trim).

How does the newer design differ from this?

Andrew Price said:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:58:44 +0100, "Pete Biggs"

Quoted message said:

It's normal for these pre-QS left-hand levers to need more than one click to
change gear. The number required depends on components and setup. Have a
go with the mech adjustments and cable tension if you want to try and
improve it. (A single click is used to move the mech a small amount to
trim).

How does the newer design differ from this?

H'mmmm... I have old Centaur 10 speed on my cross bike, new Centaur 10
speed on my road bike. The new stuff /is/ a lot lighter - but it's not
nearly as nice to use. In particular the step down detente works only
one click at a time. There are still ten detentes though, just like on
the old stuff, so you can still trim the front mech, unlike those
inferior and overpriced oriental systems.

In article said:

In article said:

Alan Braggins said:

Having said that, this weekend I finally got around to fitting some
older spacing 9-speed Campagnolo levers on my old road bike,
currently with Shimano 7-speed cassette (and Shimano derailleur).

The rear seems to work fine, but the left thumb tab doesn't change
front ring until wound right down to the bottom of the lever.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's normal for these pre-QS left-hand levers to need more than one click to
change gear. The number required depends on components and setup. Have a
go with the mech adjustments and cable tension if you want to try and
improve it.

[...]

Quoted message said:

But it could well be a cable tension problem. I'll go and have another look.

The assembly EC-RE205 on http://www.campyonly.com/howto/images/ergo_parts.jpg
is somewhat corroded, so the thumb lever doesn't pivot about that rivet, so
the little tooth on it doesn't engage RE313/RE060. Instead it rotates about
EC-RE307 until it hits the bit that holds the cable nipple.

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's normal for these pre-QS left-hand levers to need more than one
click to change gear. The number required depends on components
and setup. Have a go with the mech adjustments and cable tension
if you want to try and improve it. (A single click is used to move
the mech a small amount to trim).

How does the newer design differ from this?

H'mmmm... I have old Centaur 10 speed on my cross bike, new Centaur 10
speed on my road bike.

How new? Is the left-hand Ergo marked "QS"?

Quoted message said:

The new stuff /is/ a lot lighter - but it's not
nearly as nice to use. In particular the step down detente works only
one click at a time. There are still ten detentes though, just like on
the old stuff, so you can still trim the front mech, unlike those
inferior and overpriced oriental systems.

I thought the Quick Shift lever has fewer detentes, so less trimmability.
I've yet to try it myself, and I'm in no hurry to.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

The new stuff /is/ a lot lighter - but it's not
nearly as nice to use. In particular the step down detente works only
one click at a time. There are still ten detentes though, just like on
the old stuff, so you can still trim the front mech, unlike those
inferior and overpriced oriental systems.

I thought the Quick Shift lever has fewer detentes, so less trimmability.
I've yet to try it myself, and I'm in no hurry to.

I'm also still a bit confused about how the new stuff works. On my
(old-style) Veloce front dérailleur, I have basically five positions:

- the lowest (chain on small ring)
- first intermediate détente
- second intermediate détente (chain still on small ring)
- third détente (chain shifts to large ring)
- fourth détente

I can change up through these individually, or progressively from one
to four, in a single movement - if I've understood correctly, the new
Campagnolo mechanism only allows one "click" upward at a time - is
that right?

Downshifting with my old-style Veloce:

- one click on the thumb button drops through two détentes, and the
chain shifts back to the small ring.

- a second click drops the mechanism through the two remaining
détentes for trimming

Has this also changed with the new-style mechanism, i.e. it is
necessary to press the thumb button four times to go all the way down
to the lowest détente?

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:53:11 +0200, Andrew Price <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Just re-reading the nonsense I wrote previously:

Quoted message said:

Downshifting with my old-style Veloce:

- one click on the thumb button drops through two détentes, and the
chain shifts back to the small ring.

That's not correct - the first click drops through two détentes (for
trimming) but the chain stays on the big ring.

Quoted message said:

- a second click drops the mechanism through the two remaining
détentes for trimming

And the second click on the thumb button drops the chain onto the
small ring.

But the question remains the same:

Quoted message said:

Has this also changed with the new-style mechanism, i.e. it is
necessary to press the thumb button four times to go all the way down
to the lowest détente?

Andrew Price said:

I'm also still a bit confused about how the new stuff works. On my
(old-style) Veloce front dérailleur, I have basically five positions:

- the lowest (chain on small ring)
- first intermediate détente
- second intermediate détente (chain still on small ring)
- third détente (chain shifts to large ring)
- fourth détente

Your left-hand Ergo actually has twelve clicks, but as you don't need them
all, the front derailleur limits the number that are selectable when the
cable is attached and tensioned.

You'll need someone who actually uses a QS (new) version to confirm how it
works. Sorry I'm not one of them.

My vague understanding is that it shifts from one ring to the next with one
main push, or halfway with a half-push... or something like that.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

> It's normal for these pre-QS left-hand levers to need more than one
> click to change gear.  The number required depends on components
> and setup.  Have a go with the mech adjustments and cable tension
> if you want to try and improve it.  (A single click is used to move
> the mech a small amount to trim).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How does the newer design differ from this?

Quoted message said:

H'mmmm... I have old Centaur 10 speed on my cross bike, new Centaur 10
speed on my road bike.

How new?  Is the left-hand Ergo marked "QS"?

Quoted message said:

The new stuff /is/ a lot lighter - but it's not
nearly as nice to use. In particular the step down detente works only
one click at a time. There are still ten detentes though, just like on
the old stuff, so you can still trim the front mech, unlike those
inferior and overpriced oriental systems.

I thought the Quick Shift lever has fewer detentes, so less trimmability.
I've yet to try it myself, and I'm in no hurry to.

You're right, it appears to have only three detentes - so I take back
my rude comments about Shimano. It's still a bit trimmable on a
double...

It's definitely an inferior mechanism to the old one. My understanding
is you still get the 'old'-style mechanism on Chorus and Record.

Andrew Price said:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:42:49 +0100, "Pete Biggs"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The new stuff /is/ a lot lighter - but it's not
nearly as nice to use. In particular the step down detente works only
one click at a time. There are still ten detentes though, just like on
the old stuff, so you can still trim the front mech, unlike those
inferior and overpriced oriental systems.

Quoted message said:

I thought the Quick Shift lever has fewer detentes, so less trimmability.
I've yet to try it myself, and I'm in no hurry to.

I'm also still a bit confused about how the new stuff works.  On my
(old-style) Veloce front dérailleur, I have basically five positions:

- the lowest (chain on small ring)
- first intermediate détente
- second intermediate détente (chain still on small ring)
- third détente (chain shifts to large ring)
- fourth détente

I can change up through these individually, or progressively from one
to four, in a single movement - if I've understood correctly, the new
Campagnolo mechanism only allows one "click" upward at a time - is
that right?

Downshifting with my old-style Veloce:

- one click on the thumb button drops through two détentes, and the
chain shifts back to the small ring.

- a second click drops the mechanism through the two remaining
détentes for trimming

Has this also changed with the new-style mechanism, i.e. it is
necessary to press the thumb button four times to go all the way down
to the lowest détente?

You can still sweep the 'upshift' lever - the one behind your brake
lever - through as many positions as you like in one sweep, but you
can only click the thumb lever down one positions at a time.