Can Bigger Guys Climb?

[El Loto]

On my way home from school everyday there is about a 3/4 mile climb up to my house. I used to ride big gears but i've switched to lower ones so i have a smoother and more effortless action. I think it works better than trying to use as big a gear as possible.

 

[Orange Fish]

I think Steve hit the nail on the head when he suggested the web site to look at strength:weight ratio. I was going to suggest that your weight gain + a much steeper hill than you've been on since summer would combine to really whoop you during that ride. If you gained some weight during some down time, it most likely was not muscle that you put on. So that will serve to decrease your strength to weight ratio (or the amount of power you can put out per kg body mass - of course, if you know your body composition, then you can relate it to kg of lean muscle mass). Either way, the weight gain will make you work harder when you climb, and climbing a much steeper hill than you're used to will serve to give you a pretty tough workout like you described.

 

[Carrera]

I had an experience the other day when a mountain biker crept up behind and passed me going up a bank.
There was a line of traffic in front and, sure, I could have overtaken this guy but only if I'd gone up to a higher gear. However, I opted to spin as fast as I could to see if I could beat his bigger gears and slow cadence.
It was a negative. In order to have overtaken the rider, I'd have had to push a big cog.

 

[closesupport]

I had an experience the other day when a mountain biker crept up behind and passed me going up a bank.
There was a line of traffic in front and, sure, I could have overtaken this guy but only if I'd gone up to a higher gear. However, I opted to spin as fast as I could to see if I could beat his bigger gears and slow cadence.
It was a negative. In order to have overtaken the rider, I'd have had to push a big cog.

I always thought it was weight of rider and bike the higher the weight the greater the rolling resistance of the tyres.

not only that a slower cadence ain't always a bad thing i prefare riding a bigger gear but i often find that riding on the mtb is like spinning on the smaller cog of my TT okey 21mph + is achievable but i find it is alot easier to achieve. Riding 53x17 and somewhat less tyring in comparision to the higher cadence of the MTB.

 

[closesupport]

I had an experience the other day when a mountain biker crept up behind and passed me going up a bank.
There was a line of traffic in front and, sure, I could have overtaken this guy but only if I'd gone up to a higher gear. However, I opted to spin as fast as I could to see if I could beat his bigger gears and slow cadence.
It was a negative. In order to have overtaken the rider, I'd have had to push a big cog.

Slower cadence even with 75rpm and your 120rpm i'm still going to be riding alot faster than you and when i hit the 120rpm your going to have to be doing some serious spinning to catch me since riding on -3% slope with a 170rpm on 53x12 i'm pushing 48.6mph on my MTB with over a 200rpm cadence i'm only achieving 35-36mph - maxing out at arouund 38/9mph, so you go figure smaller gear or larger gear.

 

[Carrera]

Only one snag. Don't you find climbing in bigger gears tough on the knees? Myself I get one or two aches if I push big cogs.

Slower cadence even with 75rpm and your 120rpm i'm still going to be riding alot faster than you and when i hit the 120rpm your going to have to be doing some serious spinning to catch me since riding on -3% slope with a 170rpm on 53x12 i'm pushing 48.6mph on my MTB with over a 200rpm cadence i'm only achieving 35-36mph - maxing out at arouund 38/9mph, so you go figure smaller gear or larger gear.

 

[closesupport]

Only one snag. Don't you find climbing in bigger gears tough on the knees? Myself I get one or two aches if I push big cogs.

Only on hills, but thats the idea, since pedalling at lower cadence with larger gears on slopes creates a great deal of tension within the working muscle thus increasing the fast twitch muscle groups and improving ones strength for ride on flats when mashing out larger gears.

Although i must admit if i want to get up a hill quickly then i opt for using the small ring with a 100-110rpm, if i ain't doing muscle tension intervals, Since it does make the climb that little less painful.

However, i have found that supplementing my diet with Glucosamine sulphate makes a substancial difference on my knee joints, and since i have been doing muscle tension intervals i feel that as the muscles are getting stronger then the pain is substancially less the stronger the muscles get.

 

[dhk]

Only one snag. Don't you find climbing in bigger gears tough on the knees? Myself I get one or two aches if I push big cogs.

Just pick your most comfortable cadence and go for it. Sustained climbing takes high specific aerobic power output, ie, watts/kg. I've read Lance has over 7 watts/kg (500 w/72 kg), and can sustain 30 m/min vertical for an hour....pretty much the top dog now.

I'm somewhere around 1/2 that rate, but hoping to pick up a bit this season...guess we all are.

If you know how fast you can pedal up a known steep gradiant, and your total weight (incl bike), it's easy to compute an estimate of power output.

 

[closesupport]

Just pick your most comfortable cadence and go for it. Sustained climbing takes high specific aerobic power output, ie, watts/kg. I've read Lance has over 7 watts/kg (500 w/72 kg), and can sustain 30 m/min vertical for an hour....pretty much the top dog now.

I'm somewhere around 1/2 that rate, but hoping to pick up a bit this season...guess we all are.

If you know how fast you can pedal up a known steep gradiant, and your total weight (incl bike), it's easy to compute an estimate of power output.

I've spent the last week working on the I magic 1900T within the catalyst software completing 55rpm - 60rpm on a 9% slope which is very tyring each climb lasts on 3minutes and there are 15 with a 1.5 minute flat inbetween them with a -3% slope for 10 minutes of fast pedalling at the end, that i'm hitting over 50mph on oHhhh! and a 0% slope for warmups of 100-120rpms. Guess its easier to ride indoors on the trainer to complete intervals since roads don't come with slopes that last your designated time (400+watts) but i'm working with the slower cadence and larger gears for FT recruitment.

as for 30minutes i look forward to the 0% slope after 3minutes

 

[Carrera]

I did a big climb today and nearly didn't make it. Sometimes I wonder if it might be all the red wine I'm so partial to these days.
It's weird as I was really gasping for air at the top whereas last Summer I didn't get out of breath at all.
However, the climb is tough, steep and takes some 13 minutes of standing and fighting your way up to the top. My lungs seem to pump like bellows on the very steep gradients.

I've spent the last week working on the I magic 1900T within the catalyst software completing 55rpm - 60rpm on a 9% slope which is very tyring each climb lasts on 3minutes and there are 15 with a 1.5 minute flat inbetween them with a -3% slope for 10 minutes of fast pedalling at the end, that i'm hitting over 50mph on oHhhh! and a 0% slope for warmups of 100-120rpms. Guess its easier to ride indoors on the trainer to complete intervals since roads don't come with slopes that last your designated time (350/400watts)

 

[dhk]

Only on hills, but thats the idea, since pedalling at lower cadence with larger gears on slopes creates a great deal of tension within the working muscle thus increasing the fast twitch muscle groups and improving ones strength for ride on flats when mashing out larger gears.

Although i must admit if i want to get up a hill quickly then i opt for using the small ring with a 100-110rpm, if i ain't doing muscle tension intervals, Since it does make the climb that little less painful.

However, i have found that supplementing my diet with Glucosamine sulphate makes a substancial difference on my knee joints, and since i have been doing muscle tension intervals i feel that as the muscles are getting stronger then the pain is substancially less the stronger the muscles get.

Didn't see you post while I was typing mine. Agree 100-110 rpm is good for long climbs, particularly if you'll be doing a lot of them in a day. But sometimes even my triple gearing doesn't afford me that high a cadence on the steep stuff.

I try to mix it up on my training hills, depending on goals for the day. Today I climbed my last hill back to the house in middle ring low, 39/25. Next time, I'll use the granny 30 ring and spin. Third option on hard days is to climb out of the saddle in 39/23; just stand and go to 95% max HR. Seems variety helps my training. On hilly centuries, I like to have a whole bag of tricks to minimize the pain.

 

[closesupport]

Didn't see you post while I was typing mine. Agree 100-110 rpm is good for long climbs, particularly if you'll be doing a lot of them in a day. But sometimes even my triple gearing doesn't afford me that high a cadence on the steep stuff.

I try to mix it up on my training hills, depending on goals for the day. Today I climbed my last hill back to the house in middle ring low, 39/25. Next time, I'll use the granny 30 ring and spin. Third option on hard days is to climb out of the saddle in 39/23; just stand and go to 95% max HR. Seems variety helps my training. On hilly centuries, I like to have a whole bag of tricks to minimize the pain.

Nahhh! you won't see much benefit from doing anything mixing up your days like that, try completing 3weeks then change to something else, thats when you'll see the difference. I don't see the point in that mixing goals, you can take a week or 2 at the end of your 3weeks in your granny gear at the end of 3weeks or even 3 weeks of light spinning to fast pedaling of under over LT interals.

But if it works for you! carry on! I only see the differences in me and i guess we are not all the same. Already i see improvements on power that i can generate on the flats through training like this.

 

[dhk]

Nahhh! you won't see much benefit from doing anything mixing up your days like that, try completing 3weeks then change to something else, thats when you'll see the difference. I don't see the point in that mixing goals, you can take a week or 2 at the end of your 3weeks in your granny gear at the end of 3weeks or even 3 weeks of light spinning to fast pedaling of under over LT interals.

But if it works for you! carry on! I only see the differences in me and i guess we are not all the same. Already i see improvements on power that i can generate on the flats through training like this.

You've got a valid point here. I've read CTS favors the 3 weeks on a specific skill, then a rest week, then moving on. Maybe that approach would give me better gains.

Only issue is that at my age (57), recovery from repeated hard days isn't as easy as it once was. I've got a lot more time and energy to devote to training now that I'm retired, but the downside is I got rather old somewhere between my '74 Raleigh Gran Sport and my '04 SANO.

Agree the trainer with a power measurement capability is an excellent way to get your repeated constant loads; outdoor hills are rarely that perfect. Still, indoor efforts always seem even tougher to me. 15 x 3 mins on would be a little much, but I could start with 3-5 intervals and work up. Do you hit near max HR on these low-cadence grinds? Assume the first few are fairly easy, then it gets painful in a hurry.

 

[closesupport]

You've got a valid point here. I've read CTS favors the 3 weeks on a specific skill, then a rest week, then moving on. Maybe that approach would give me better gains.

Only issue is that at my age (57), recovery from repeated hard days isn't as easy as it once was. I've got a lot more time and energy to devote to training now that I'm retired, but the downside is I got rather old somewhere between my '74 Raleigh Gran Sport and my '04 SANO.

Agree the trainer with a power measurement capability is an excellent way to get your repeated constant loads; outdoor hills are rarely that perfect. Still, indoor efforts always seem even tougher to me. 15 x 3 mins on would be a little much, but I could start with 3-5 intervals and work up. Do you hit near max HR on these low-cadence grinds? Assume the first few are fairly easy, then it gets painful in a hurry.

I try to ride at above Lactate threshold 98% max hrt but i do max out at around 198max (according to stress tests) and under Lactate Threshold (LT) on flats Muscle tension and up and over LT intervals on climbing for the next 3 weeks Since the flat sections are allegedly my recovery period and i try to bring my HRT rate down to 95% LT, even so the next climb is 1.5 minutes after i have completed the last. with 10minutes of fast pedalling at 198bpm for as long as possible, and again after 5 minutes recover.

but only for the next 3weeks then i'll head back to Speed and power at and above LT on flats.

 

[Carrera]

My usual climbing technique involves standing and spinning my way uphill at fairly high cadence. Today I was climbing shallow ascents in a seated position which seemed easier.
I never use big gears any more as I have some knee trouble (probably arthritis due to years of heavy squats).

Only on hills, but thats the idea, since pedalling at lower cadence with larger gears on slopes creates a great deal of tension within the working muscle thus increasing the fast twitch muscle groups and improving ones strength for ride on flats when mashing out larger gears.

Although i must admit if i want to get up a hill quickly then i opt for using the small ring with a 100-110rpm, if i ain't doing muscle tension intervals, Since it does make the climb that little less painful.

However, i have found that supplementing my diet with Glucosamine sulphate makes a substancial difference on my knee joints, and since i have been doing muscle tension intervals i feel that as the muscles are getting stronger then the pain is substancially less the stronger the muscles get.

 

[closesupport]

My usual climbing technique involves standing and spinning my way uphill at fairly high cadence. Today I was climbing shallow ascents in a seated position which seemed easier.
I never use big gears any more as I have some knee trouble (probably arthritis due to years of heavy squats).

now that is something i can't do? i can't stand out the seat and spin i have to be seated to do that, if i am going to get out of the saddle whilst spinning i usually just hover above it and spin, but if i am to be standing then i have to be mashing some bigger gears.

Glucosamine Sulpahte: helps increase the absorbtion of collagen from the food we eat, thus increasing the rate at which cartliage are repaired, since artharitis is a decrease in the cartliage which allows the bones to grate together rather than cushion the two surficaces then maybe you would benefit from using it also.

 

[Carrera]

My knees are problematic and I already take glucosamine as well as cod liver oil (devil's claw thrown in as an alternative anti-inflammatory).
There has been some improvement in my hips where I used to get a lot of pain but my right knee, in particular, isn't as it was when I was in my twenties. Last night I noticed that if I lie on a bed, bend the upper leg towards the chest and then slowly extend the shin (bending the knee) I can hear a real load of crackling and grating under the knee cap and around. Straining on big gears would probably cause me heaps of problems in this area. It may well be I should consider surgery around the cartilage as a physio suggested not too long ago.
As for the standing, physios say this is the most knee-friendly way to climb as opposed to sitting where the joint is stressed far more (and more muscular effort is required). You could see Lance and Ivan Baso climbing in this way during the last tour when Baso kept up with Lance on the cols. Ullrich seems to stay in the seat a lot more and push bigger cogs. Pantani was know for climbing in the drops on occasions as he claimed this suited him.
I have 2 methods:
The most unusual is when I adopt a close grip position on the upper bars and stand up very high over the bike as I push using all my weight on the hip. This is effective on shorter climbs and maybe a little faster. Otherwise I place my hands on the shifters, stand up and push a fairly small gear, accelerating rapidly when I need to drop to a lower gear.
I'm fine on long. less steep climbs but the 18 per cent serpents still have me gasping.
I'm not a first class climber by any means, though. I'm probably slow and steady as I climb and use a reasonably fast cadence and smaller cogs. However, my knees are better now than they were when I pushed big gears and this is one of my priorities.

now that is something i can't do? i can't stand out the seat and spin i have to be seated to do that, if i am going to get out of the saddle whilst spinning i usually just hover above it and spin, but if i am to be standing then i have to be mashing some bigger gears.

Glucosamine Sulpahte: helps increase the absorbtion of collagen from the food we eat, thus increasing the rate at which cartliage are repaired, since artharitis is a decrease in the cartliage which allows the bones to grate together rather than cushion the two surficaces then maybe you would benefit from using it also.

 

[yadayadayada]

I weigh 200 lbs and beat little guys to the summit. My legs are twice their strength and i'm 40 lbs heavier. Like most other sports, you'll see 200+ lb men taking over the sport. Granted they'll be well over 6 feet.

 

[wilmar13]

I weigh 200 lbs and beat little guys to the summit. My legs are twice their strength and i'm 40 lbs heavier. Like most other sports, you'll see 200+ lb men taking over the sport. Granted they'll be well over 6 feet.

As much as I would like this to be true...it is a tad bit naive. The truth is physical size has no correlation with cycling prowess and never will. It is all about power to weight... and that my friend is why the cycling peloton will always be representative of the population of people from which it was derived.

 

[dhk]

As much as I would like this to be true...it is a tad bit naive. The truth is physical size has no correlation with cycling prowess and never will. It is all about power to weight... and that my friend is why the cycling peloton will always be representative of the population of people from which it was derived.

Agree, the lighter guys have an advantage in specific power output (watts/kg). Believe Lance was around the tops last season, at 71 kg (158 lbs); read he can sustain over 7 watts/kg output.

At the elite pro levels, are there any 200 pound climbers?