Can I break 3:30? 3:15?

"Janithor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

I ran the CIM last December, first marathon, first real running since
1990. I trained starting in May prior to the CIM, but I really petered
out on my milage in November. I almost stopped running. My weekly milage
was about 35 at the peak. So, I finished at 3:58. I'm 38, 5'8" and 185
lbs, but I don't look that heavy, I'm just really stocky. I've lost about
8 lbs since I started running again.

My best high school times:
5K = 17:56
440 = :56
Don't remember any other times.

Stopped running after the CIM, started again April, had about a month
where I almost stopped running, but have been steady since June. I had my
2nd 40 mile week last week, and I'm on target this week.

I've read that upping your milage is the key to training for marathons.
One book I read says the payoff peaks at about 70 miles/week, even though
many elites run more than that. So, I'm wondering if I could get my
milage above 50 miles/week, and sustain this, how much might I be able to
cut from my time? I'm feeling stronger each week, the added milage is
definitely paying off.

Increasing general mileage and holding it for decent periods of time is
a good call for anyone training for a marathon unless you are already
up there in the realm of diminishing returns.

Try to avoid hard running during these periods of training. The reason
for your improvements in this phase is the steady-state running. If you
pepper the week with hard stuff, you will just get too tired over time
and start dreading each run as the miles get higher.

There's no guarantees, but at your mileage and with the times of your
youth in mind, I'm sure you will run better marathons than 3:58. I
knocked almost 40 minutes off my marathon time between my first
and second year of running. I had spent the winter between building
up the miles and it payed off.

I suggest you continue your path to build up, but have a plan in
mind. Look at various marathon training programs on the net, or
get one of the popular marathon training books - they are all pretty
good.

This way you will have a better understanding of planning the phases
and get the most out of your hard work and patience, such as what to
do after the mileage-building period in order to utilize it and be ready
for the marathon.

cheers,
--
David Hirsh, director
www.absolutelyaccurate.com
Southern Ontario's Summer Race Series!

Janithor said:

I ran the CIM last December, first marathon, first real running since
1990. I trained starting in May prior to the CIM, but I really petered
out on my milage in November. I almost stopped running. My weekly
milage was about 35 at the peak.
So, I finished at 3:58. I'm 38, 5'8"
and 185 lbs, but I don't look that heavy, I'm just really stocky. I've
lost about 8 lbs since I started running again.

Being that heavy will work against you in longer distances. How much did you
weigh in high school ? I don't think it's easy to get back down to high school
weight, but say high school weight plus 10lb or so is possible.

Quoted message said:

My best high school times:
5K = 17:56
440 = :56

The 1/4 mile time looks quite a bit better than the 5k time. I know some low
16s guys who would have trouble running 400m that fast. Maybe you're more
gifted in terms of speed than endurance, but that gap would probably close
substantially with training.

Quoted message said:

I've read that upping your milage is the key to training for marathons.

It actually makes a huge difference for any road race distance, especially
if you're talking in terms of going from about 40 to about 70.

Quoted message said:

One book I read says the payoff peaks at about 70 miles/week, even
though many elites run more than that.

Elites typically run 100 or more. But keep in mind that 100 miles for an
elite is about 10-11 hours a week. If mere mortals like us run for the same
duration, it will be closer to 70 miles.

Quoted message said:

So, I'm wondering if I could get
my milage above 50 miles/week, and sustain this, how much might I be
able to cut from my time?

You have the potential to run quite a lot faster than 3:58.

I don't think beating your high school 5k time is out of the question (beating
the 400 time would be somewhat harder).

There's considerable variation in how fast people run off a given pace, but
if your 5k is sub 18 and you're doing reasonable mileage, you should run
sub 3:10 for the marathon.

I'd suggest bringing down your times over shorter distances, and then set a
goal closer to the race.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Being that heavy will work against you in longer distances. How much did you
weigh in high school ?

Ah yes, my favorite comeback when you tell people you are a runner,
they say "oh, I used to run <pause> in high school..."

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

x-no-archive: yes

The Bill Rodgers said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Being that heavy will work against you in longer distances. How much did you
weigh in high school ?

Ah yes, my favorite comeback when you tell people you are a runner,
they say "oh, I used to run <pause> in high school..."

OK, I'll give you my more recent times, how's that?

Best 5K times
1986 = 0:00
1987 = 0:00
1988 = 0:00
1989 = 0:00
1990 = 0:00
1991 = 0:00
1992 = 0:00
1993 = 0:00
1994 = 0:00
1995 = 0:00
1996 = 0:00
1997 = 0:00
1998 = 0:00
1999 = 0:00
2000 = 0:00
2001 = 0:00
2002 = 0:00
2003 = 0:00
2004 - didn't run a 5K, but I did run the marathon, which I listed in my
original post.

Better?

Janithor said:

OK, I'll give you my more recent times, how's that?

Best 5K times
1986 = 0:00
1987 = 0:00
1988 = 0:00
1989 = 0:00
1990 = 0:00
1991 = 0:00
1992 = 0:00
1993 = 0:00
1994 = 0:00
1995 = 0:00
1996 = 0:00
1997 = 0:00
1998 = 0:00
1999 = 0:00
2000 = 0:00
2001 = 0:00
2002 = 0:00
2003 = 0:00
2004 - didn't run a 5K, but I did run the marathon, which I listed in my
original post.

Better?

Much.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

x-no-archive: yes

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Janithor said:

I ran the CIM last December, first marathon, first real running since
1990. I trained starting in May prior to the CIM, but I really petered
out on my milage in November. I almost stopped running. My weekly
milage was about 35 at the peak.
So, I finished at 3:58. I'm 38, 5'8"
and 185 lbs, but I don't look that heavy, I'm just really stocky. I've
lost about 8 lbs since I started running again.

Being that heavy will work against you in longer distances. How much did you
weigh in high school ? I don't think it's easy to get back down to high school
weight, but say high school weight plus 10lb or so is possible.

I think I weighed 160 when I graduated, jumped to 165 in college, then
slowly went up from there. I think somewhere in the mid-90's I jumped
from around 175 to 190-195. I'm at about 187 since I started running
again. That's partially why I'm running.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My best high school times:
5K = 17:56
440 = :56

The 1/4 mile time looks quite a bit better than the 5k time. I know some low
16s guys who would have trouble running 400m that fast. Maybe you're more
gifted in terms of speed than endurance, but that gap would probably close
substantially with training.

I'm guessing my best event (relative to myself) would be 880-1 mile
range. I'm certainly not built like a distance runner. But I'm 38, I'm
not running to win anything, I just enjoy it. Plus I want to get my
weight under 175.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've read that upping your milage is the key to training for marathons.

It actually makes a huge difference for any road race distance, especially
if you're talking in terms of going from about 40 to about 70.

I'd like to get above 50 at least, don't know if I have the time or
energy for 70. I'm on target for 40 miles again this week, it will be
the first time I've sustained 2 weeks of 40+ back to back.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One book I read says the payoff peaks at about 70 miles/week, even
though many elites run more than that.

Elites typically run 100 or more. But keep in mind that 100 miles for an
elite is about 10-11 hours a week. If mere mortals like us run for the same
duration, it will be closer to 70 miles.

Quoted message said:

So, I'm wondering if I could get
my milage above 50 miles/week, and sustain this, how much might I be
able to cut from my time?

You have the potential to run quite a lot faster than 3:58.

I don't think beating your high school 5k time is out of the question (beating
the 400 time would be somewhat harder).

There's considerable variation in how fast people run off a given pace, but
if your 5k is sub 18 and you're doing reasonable mileage, you should run
sub 3:10 for the marathon.

I'd suggest bringing down your times over shorter distances, and then set a
goal closer to the race.

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to do the Cowtown Marathon in
October, I'm hoping to break 3:40. At this point, I think the best
thing I can do is to simply my milage up. I should hit 45 miles this
week, then I'm going to add 2-5 miles/week until the beginning of
September, then come down in September and maybe add a little speed
work. The race is October 2. It might not be an optimal plan, but good
enough is OK. Just getting out and doing it is a success for me at this
point.

Janithor said:

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to do the Cowtown Marathon in
October, I'm hoping to break 3:40. At this point, I think the best
thing I can do is to simply my milage up. I should hit 45 miles this
week, then I'm going to add 2-5 miles/week until the beginning of
September, then come down in September and maybe add a little speed
work. The race is October 2. It might not be an optimal plan, but good
enough is OK. Just getting out and doing it is a success for me at this
point.

Sounds good. I'd recommend trying to hold it at 50 until you have to taper.

If you can, enter a 10k or half marathon just before the taper (early
September). Having a race under your belt will help a lot with goal
setting. If you can run 42 minutes or better for 10k (for example), you
will be able to set a more ambitious goal (3:30 is conservative off a 42:00
10k)

It's hard to "predict" marathon times, but you need to at least have a good
game plan and stick to it, because it's a race where you can very quickly go
from feeling great to feeling terrible. For example, just because you feel
great at the halfway mark doesn't mean you can start hammering the pace.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

x-no-archive: yes

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Janithor said:

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to do the Cowtown Marathon in
October, I'm hoping to break 3:40. At this point, I think the best
thing I can do is to simply my milage up. I should hit 45 miles this
week, then I'm going to add 2-5 miles/week until the beginning of
September, then come down in September and maybe add a little speed
work. The race is October 2. It might not be an optimal plan, but good
enough is OK. Just getting out and doing it is a success for me at this
point.

Sounds good. I'd recommend trying to hold it at 50 until you have to taper.

If you can, enter a 10k or half marathon just before the taper (early
September). Having a race under your belt will help a lot with goal
setting. If you can run 42 minutes or better for 10k (for example), you
will be able to set a more ambitious goal (3:30 is conservative off a 42:00
10k)

It's hard to "predict" marathon times, but you need to at least have a good
game plan and stick to it, because it's a race where you can very quickly go
from feeling great to feeling terrible. For example, just because you feel
great at the halfway mark doesn't mean you can start hammering the pace.

Cheers,

Oh believe me, I remember mile 22+ VERY clearly from the marathon last
December. I had to close my eyes because I couldn't stand looking at
the mile markers, I wanted to stop so bad. :-)

I got good advice from this group. The best I remember: "Respect the
distance."

Quoted message said:

Best 5K times
1986 = 0:00

Don't you have to start and finish a race to receive a time?

--
Phil M.

It's easy! You only need increase the mileage. Eight weeks before the
marathon
begins to do one train of two hours. And in the last week you must reduce
the mileage.
Good runs.
Jesus
"Janithor" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

I ran the CIM last December, first marathon, first real running since
1990. I trained starting in May prior to the CIM, but I really petered
out on my milage in November. I almost stopped running. My weekly
milage was about 35 at the peak. So, I finished at 3:58. I'm 38, 5'8"
and 185 lbs, but I don't look that heavy, I'm just really stocky. I've
lost about 8 lbs since I started running again.

My best high school times:
5K = 17:56
440 = :56
Don't remember any other times.

Stopped running after the CIM, started again April, had about a month
where I almost stopped running, but have been steady since June. I had
my 2nd 40 mile week last week, and I'm on target this week.

I've read that upping your milage is the key to training for marathons.
One book I read says the payoff peaks at about 70 miles/week, even
though many elites run more than that. So, I'm wondering if I could get
my milage above 50 miles/week, and sustain this, how much might I be
able to cut from my time? I'm feeling stronger each week, the added
milage is definitely paying off.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:38:15 +0100, "Luciano Jesus" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It's easy!

He'll be lucky to finish with his mileage, and idiotic comments like
yours do nothing to help.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

"Janithor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Janithor said:

I ran the CIM last December, first marathon, first real running since
1990. I trained starting in May prior to the CIM, but I really petered
out on my milage in November. I almost stopped running. My weekly
milage was about 35 at the peak.
So, I finished at 3:58. I'm 38, 5'8"
and 185 lbs, but I don't look that heavy, I'm just really stocky. I've
lost about 8 lbs since I started running again.

Being that heavy will work against you in longer distances. How much did

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weigh in high school ? I don't think it's easy to get back down to high

school

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weight, but say high school weight plus 10lb or so is possible.

I think I weighed 160 when I graduated, jumped to 165 in college, then
slowly went up from there. I think somewhere in the mid-90's I jumped
from around 175 to 190-195. I'm at about 187 since I started running
again. That's partially why I'm running.

I'm about the same as you. I'm 42, 5'9, and was 170 in HS when playing
soccer. I got up to 205 in 1999, then got into shape again in 2000 biking
exclusively, getting down to 174. Last year I ran a 50k and a marathon at
about 180. This year I upped my running goals and lowered my weight goals.
From mid May to July 30th I got my weight down from 182 to 165 for my Goal
race, proving it can be done even in a short time window. Once you find the
right eating pattern for yourself it need not be difficult to lose weight.
I'm down to 163 now, and will aim for sub 160 for my next race 5 weeks away.

I had difficulty in previous years getting my weight down and keeping it
off. It does mean less calories overall yes, but I've found that if I feed
the exercise very well, I'm not very hungry the rest of the day. In this
way, I eat 4 satisfying but somewhat controlled meals a day, one of them
being a meal of simple carbs flooding the body during and after exercise,
easily up to 1500-1800 calories during and after long runs (over 3 hours).
During light training days, the carb meal is about 600-700 calories, equal
to or slightly more than calories expended. It's my theory that everyone
knows why and where they eat too many calories. It's harder to take the next
step: to find when and how to eat to support your lifestyle, giving the body
what it needs when it needs it, so that you're not ravenous at certain times
of the day.

-Tony