Can I Build From Vintage?

Kel57 said:

So I am looking for a lighter/faster road bike but don't want to spend a thousand bucks on it.

Why not just get yourself a used Trek 1000 road bike (or similar) on eBay? Decent bike. Was a Bicycling Mag "best buy" (or whatever they called it) several years ago. My son bought one new back then for about $650 at our LBS. On eBay, there are several listed right now for prices as low as $250, maybe less. Just be sure the frame size is appropriate to your needs.

Example:
TREK ALUMINUM 1000 ROAD BIKE. - eBay (item 320480356772 end time Feb-25-10 21:40:37 PST)

Here's the review mentioned above:
Gear & Bike Reviews: The Trek 1000 Review at Bicycling.com

Kel57 said:

...My question is: Can I purchase a vintage 10 spd and build it up to the bike I would like? In other words, would I be able to change the gears in the back and the cranks in the front to make the bike a 21 spd or better?...

As OldGoat points out you can almost certainly purchase a very nice and fairly modern used bike for a fraction of your budget. But to answer your question, yeah you can build up a 'vintage' bike with newer components, but there's some things that you have to pay attention to such as headset size and type (quill style stem or threadless?), rear dropout spacing (depending on how far you're going back in terms of 'vintage' you might have to spread the rear dropouts or stick to 7 speed rear cassettes). But sure it's easy to find components to retrofit an older frame as long as you know how to get the correct parts and are a decent bike mechanic. But if you don't know the questions to ask or aren't sure what to do with the parts when they arrive a complete used bike is much easier and often much less expensive in the end.

Again as OldGoat said, figure out what size bike you need which you'll need to know whether you buy a used frame or a complete bike and then go see what's available. There are some incredible deals out there if you're not hung up on having the latest stuff.

-Dave

Kel57 said:

... I have a hybrid but it is sure to not be strong enough for a 200km trek in 2 days plus all the time needed to work out on it. It is just a great workout bike.

So I am looking for a lighter/faster road bike but don't want to spend a thousand bucks on it.

My question is: Can I purchase a vintage 10 spd and build it up to the bike I would like? In other words, would I be able to change the gears in the back and the cranks in the front to make the bike a 21 spd or better?

Absolutely ...

You can update the components on EITHER a Vintage bicycle OR your Hybrid ...

In the latter case, if the bike has an unnecessary suspension fork, then you would want to replace it with a 'rigid' fork (you can get a removed-from-new-bike steel fork from some tandem-and-touring bikes where the owner immediately updated the fork with a carbon fibre fork). If your Hybrid has a rigid fork, then so much the better.

Does your Hybrid's rear wheel have a Cassette or Freewheel?

Starting with your Hybrid, you can change the handlebars & shifters, and perhaps the saddle ... possibly, the derailleurs & cassette (depending what is currently on the bike, if you are inclined) AND possibly the crankset & BB if you want a ROAD crankset. Change the tires to 700-28 (I'm presuming the Hybrid has 622-17 rims), and you'll be good to go.

I recommend Campagnolo 10-speed shifters + 9-speed SHIMANO cassette ... depending on the largest cog on the cassette, either a 10-speed SHIMANO rear derailleur or a 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur by using the hubbub.com alternate cable attachment at 3 o'clock.

If your Hybrid happens to have an 8-speed cassette, then just get the "drop" handlebars + 10-speed Campagnolo shifters (non-QS are better) ... connect, and you're good to go.

FWIW. Here's a slightly/(barely?) more extreme modification that I made to one of my Hardtail frames than what simply swapping the bars & shifters +/- the fork (if necessary) would be on your Hybrid:

[CENTER][/CENTER]

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Some Vintage bikes are better than others, then-and-now. If you don't already have a frame, then it will require more effort than simply updating your Hybrid ... but, not much more effort.

While you can update almost any bike, a bike from the late 70s or early 80s is about as old a bike as you probably want to consider ... frames from before 1980 generally don't have such amenties as water bottle bosses.

IMO, a bike which has 700c wheels is a better choice than one which has 27" wheels unless you are over 6'0" tall.

Frames with British threaded Bottom Brackets are easier to upgrade than most French bikes; and, while most Italian bikes are generally nice, why deal with an Italian threaded BB if you don't have to?

Regardless of the frame you choose to update, the only limitation is your wallet AND your mechanical skills -- the level you will need is modest ... you know, can you change a light bulb into a lamp?

With a Vintage STEEL frame, it's better (IMO) to choose one which has an integrated derailleur hanger ...

You can easily respace a steel frame which has 126mm rear dropout spacing to 130mm ... doing so will allow you to use almost any contemporary wheelset. Respacing is done by using ONLY your upper body strength ... aligning the derailleur hanger does require some scrap wood + a pipe wrench AND some patience (i.e., tweaking with a minimal amount of force, checking, repeating).

BTW. The TREK 1000 which OldGoat has found on eBay probably dates from the mid-80s (possibly, the early-90s). Nice frame, but it undoubtedly has 126mm rear spacing (which cannot be changed since the frame is aluminum) ... and, some people hate downtube shifters ...

BTW2. Your Hybrid frame is probably more robust than most Road frames.

Thanks all for the great information.

alfeng: thanks for the ideas regarding my hybrid. Although most of what you were talking about was Greek to me, I think I got the gist of it. I WAS thinking of doing exactly that with my hybrid but I think it might not work right.

Do you think the stock hybrid frame is strong enough for the workout I am planning for it? The bike is a CCM Avenue 700. It can be seen at the following link...

CCM Avenue 700C Hybrid Bike, Men's | Canadian Tire

As for the rear wheel, it has 6 sprockets in the back (cassette?). I am planning on increasing this to 10 ROAD sprockets and maybe changing the front cranks to a better set for the Conquer Cancer ride. At present it is a set of 3 cranks. What are your thoughts on this? 10 too many gears?

I have discovered that the shifters and brakes need major tweaking too. Therefore I think it would be a better idea to just get a proper road bike that requires minimum tweaking.

Also, thanks to the rest of your responses. I appreciate all the input.

Kel

alfeng said:

BTW. The TREK 1000 which OldGoat has found on eBay probably dates from the mid-80s (possibly, the early-90s). Nice frame, but it undoubtedly has 126mm rear spacing (which cannot be changed since the frame is aluminum) ... and, some people hate downtube shifters .

My bad. In quickly scanning ebay for Trek 1000's, I inadvertently chose a link to an older model. There are several newer Trek 1000's also listed on eBay, all equipped with more modern components (i.e., without downtube shifters). The Trek 1000 to which I intended to refer, and which my son bought at our local LBS, was bought new in 2007. It came with 8-speed Shimano Sora shifters, a Tiagra rear der, and Alex wheels. Cost, as stated, was $650 new. I'm sure it could be bought for much less used on ebay. Just be sure to look closely at the photos and read the description of the bike and components. Here's a link to current listings (ignore the older red $250 one with downtube shifters.....).

trek 1000, Cycling, trek 1200. Great deals on eBay!

~OG

Thanks OldGoat. Much appreciated

Kel57 said:

Do you think the stock hybrid frame is strong enough for the workout I am planning for it? The bike is a CCM Avenue 700. It can be seen at the following link...

CCM Avenue 700C Hybrid Bike, Men's | Canadian Tire

After you've finished replacing the wheels, replacing the derailleurs, replacing the handlebar, installing control levers, replacing the crank, replacing the fork, installing a cassette, replacing all the cables, bent the chainstays to accommodate the new 130mm rear axle, and wrapped the handlebar with tape, you may as well have bought a new bike. Or a good used one that will suit your purposes right out of the box.

Have I made myself clear? You're opening a can of worms and then the finished product is not going to be all that great.

Truly vintage (pre-1986 or so) road bikes are rewarding but they are more a hobby unto themselves. Unless you find a complete bike, expect to spend considerable money and time looking for parts to before you can ever ride the thing. And then you will likely have to live without modern conveniences such as 9- or 10-speed cassettes, dual control levers, indexed shifting, and dual-pivot brakes. I love fixing and riding vintage bikes, but I don't recommend it for anyone who hasn't at least ridden and maintained one for a year or two.

Used newer road bikes can be found. Expect to put in some work or more money to make them work. Also, know how to fit yourself before buying a bike sight-unseen. By the way, those older Treks that OldGoat dug up on ebay look pretty sweet and close to ready-to-ride. By all means check them out.

Decent discount road bikes can be bought from people like bikesdirect.com, performancebike.com, and SportyMama on ebay. Again, know how to fit yourself, and be prepared to assemble the bike or pay to have a shop do it.

Or you can scavenge your local shops for decent bikes under $1000, like Specialized Allez and Trek 1.2 and 1.5. They're around, and they usually come with free advice and fit services.

Thanks a million oldbobcat. Your point is understood and taken. 😉

Since I started this thread, I have been looking and I think I found some sources of fairly decent bikes. I will however check out the sources you mentioned as I have never heard of most of them.

Thanks for the leads and your input.

Much appreciated.
Kel

Kel57 said:

Much appreciated.
Kel

You're welcome and good luck.

Kel57 said:

I have discovered that the shifters and brakes need major tweaking too.

This is a simple maintenance issue ...

'Grabby' cables can make shifting erratic & using the brakes harder than necessary. ALL bikes types can need cable maintenance from time to time.

Short of replacing the cables & housing (which probably isn't necessary), you can improve the shifting & braking greatly by LUBING the cables ... the more expensive cables & housing (e.g., Campagnolo & Shimano) can be considered to be good-to-go out of the package, but the less expensive cables can often benefit by simply coating the cables with some VASELINE (generic PETROLEUM JELLY is just as good as the name brand product ... generic may be better for this purpose!). An alternative would be to use some ENGLUND's SLICK HONEY (relatively expensive) which you would squirt into the housing ... do not use 'oil' for lubing your cables.

Lubing your cables is easy-to-do ...

I recommend that you start with the front brake primarily BECAUSE the caliper & lever are closest to one another ...

Detach the cable from the brake ... with the front brake cable, you will probably need to remove the end-cap ... if you uncrimp this CAREFULLY with a pair of pliers then you can re-use it. You shouldn't have to remove the end-cap on the other cables.

Pull the housing away from the shifter (leave it on the cable) ...

Put a dab of petroleum jelly between your thumb & finger tip AND run the part of the cable which is usually shrouded with the housing between your greased finger tips.

Reattach the cable ...

The brake lever should feel smoother ...

Reattach the end-cap (if necessary).

REPEAT on the other cables.

BTW. For the derailleurs, the chain should be on the smallest chainring OR cog ...

Thank you again alfeng for the useful tips.

Can you tell me why you recommend NOT to use oil for lubricating the cables?

Kel

oldbobcat said:

After you've finished replacing the wheels, replacing the derailleurs, replacing the handlebar, installing control levers, replacing the crank, replacing the fork, installing a cassette, replacing all the cables, bent the chainstays to accommodate the new 130mm rear axle, and wrapped the handlebar with tape, you may as well have bought a new bike. Or a good used one that will suit your purposes right out of the box.

Have I made myself clear? You're opening a can of worms and then the finished product is not going to be all that great.

This would seem to be (and, may be) a very good point if every component on the frame were replaced ... but, everything doesn't need to be replaced on most bikes.

And, if a person is able to DIY, then for about the same cost as a used Trek 1000 (to use the current example) which will cost between $400-to-whatever one can truly sweeten their current ride ...

Also, shipping to Canada can unfortunately be problematic (not that there aren't used bikes in Canada) ... as in very-expensive OR a US seller won't want to make the effort.

Depending on the budget, a careful shopper can recobble a bike with much better components than most ready-to-ride bikes that s/he would get from a shop ... and, even eBay ... for almost any given amount of money ...

For a couple of hundred Dollars (US or Canadian), one can buy a pair of 10-speed, no-QS, Campagnolo shifters (with cables/housing) from eBay + handlebars + handlebar tape.

In addition to having the best shifting mechanism (IMO), I consider 10-speed Campagnolo shifters to be almost universal because 'I' (which means that anyone else can, too) can index them to a wide variety of drivetrains ... particularly, Shimano drivetrains which are, of course, the most prevalent. The QS "left"/front shifter can be used with most double cranks ... the non-QS shifters can, of course, be used with almost any front derailleur and/or crankset.

While new derailleurs would be nice, the 7-and-8-speed Shimano indexing is pretty much the same ... and, hopefully/presumably, the current 6-speed indexing is also the same; so, theoretically, nothing else needs to be changed.

I agree that SPRTYMOMA does have a wide variety of bikes which are really well priced, BTW.

Kel57 said:

Can you tell me why you recommend NOT to use oil for lubricating the cables?

Oil has its place ...

But, oil will eventually plasticize (get gummy ... "varnish"😉 over time ...

Grease will also dry out (cake up!?!) over time, but less quickly ... and, even dried-out grease will have some lubricating qualities between the two surfaces which are in contact whereas the "varnished" oil probably will not.

BTW. Presuming you find that your brakes & shifters are better after you lube the cables, then a truly economical option for you to try between now & the charity ride will be to find a pair of STEEL handlebars (you may-or-may-not need new cables/housing ... if so, you will only need a new cables for the rear derailleur & rear brake because cables which feed the rear brake & derailleur can be shortened and used for the front brake & derailleur ... you may need new housing, regardless).

Steel handlebars were common all bikes at one time, eventually they were only installed on less expensive road bikes ... I'm sure steel, "drop"/ROAD handlebars are still available ... heck, I've got a set, so they are out there and waiting to be used once again. Your LBS may have a some steel, Road handlebars in their parts bin that they would be willing to give to you for FREE, or a very minimal expense.

NASHBAR used to (and may still) sell a set of steel Moustache handlebars (so, they may be available from other retailers) ... Moustache handlebars are essentially Road bars with a minimal "drop" and are an alternative which some riders prefer because the typical "drop" is deeper than they are comfortable using. A problem with Moustache handlebars is that they are not cheap.

Your bike's Grip Shifts will fit on the ends of a steel handlebar ... it may seem dodgy (or, not!?!), but it will give you an idea of whether or not you will dis-/like using the drop bars that are common on most Road bikes.

[URL="http://www.cyclingforums.com/members/alfeng.html"]

Quoted post said:

[/URL]alfeng: I agree that SPRTYMOMA does have a wide variety of bikes which are really well priced, BTW.

Kel57 said:

I checked out SPORTYMOMMA and found that they will NOT ship further north than the lower 48 states so they are out of the question. The other option is to purchase and have them ship to my friend in Texas or Oregon and have them ship to me. Will have to check out that option.

I wouldn't be surprised if shipping a bike from the US to Canada is probably $100+ even if it was just going from Detroit to Windsor (to name two cities) ... hopefully, it is much less.

Regardless, before you get caught up with the notion of a new bike (or, an upgrade of the components ... now-or-in-the-distant-future), set a realistic budget for how much you want to spend.

Alf, I included cables on my litany because the cables are nearly always longer on a road bike, the levers being out on the widest reach of the bar and the the brake cables being threaded under the tape.

Anyway, the cost of cables is almost negligible after the other upgrades, including one I forgot, brake calipers. Road levers don't pull enough cable to actuate the linear pull calipers on hybrids. Well, you could buy a pair of Problem Solvers Travel Agents, $19.95 each at Excel Sports, to fix that.