Can I sue the city?

[email hidden] (L H) wrote in news:28121-3EEFA2E6-702@storefull- 2377.public.lawson.webtv.net:

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

You should definately report a road hazard. Regarding damages, you can file a claim for the cost of
your hospital visit and any damage to your bicycle. See if that gets you anywhere.

L H <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
: the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
: "end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
: serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
: have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

If you broke a bone it would be worth it. I am suing a city for road conditions myself, but I broke
my arm in the process.

At least get the city to replace the hazard with re-designed sewer grate.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' [email hidden]
--------------------------------

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

It sounds as if your question is, "Can I make a few bucks?". If that's not what you're asking then
ask yourself-

1- Was my crash forseeable by a reasonably prudent traffic engineer? 2- What steps should the city
reasonably have taken to prevent it? 3- What damage has been done to you?

[email hidden] (L H) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

Sorry to hear that, glad you were not injured too badly. That said, Yes you probably could sue. Sad
to say this sounds old school, but what ever happened to taking responsibility for our own actions?
Maybe watching where you were going is your responsibility and not the city's. Why should the
taxpayers make you rich? Your not even injured! Geez.

(B.G.) from url='http://groups.google.com/'http://groups.google.com//url said:

[email hidden] (L H) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but
at the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up
doing a "end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do
any serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER
and I have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

Sorry to hear that, glad you were not injured too badly. That said, Yes you probably could sue. Sad
to say this sounds old school, but what ever happened to taking responsibility for our own actions?
Maybe watching where you were going is your responsibility and not the city's. Why should the
taxpayers make you rich? Your not even injured! Geez.

You're assuming she'd win her suit. She might not. And, if she feels she was wronged, she has every
right to seek a remedy.

--
home.sport.rr.comcuthuluOpen ↗ human rights = peace I'm having a BIG BANG THEORY!!
2:55:42 AM 18 June 2003

(L H) said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

They've done nothing wrong.

--
¤bicker¤ 263/158 [email hidden] BP: 130/80 -> 100/60 See web site for Total Cholesterol:
256->200 before and after photos. Waist: 46 -> 34 brianandrobbie.combrianandrobbie.comOpen ↗ BF%: 39% -> 13%

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

I don't know if you can sure for something like that or not. I suppose anyone can sue anyone else at
any time for any amount for any reason. So I suppose you could. Would you prevail? I dunno?

I have heard that any law suit costs about $50,000. So if you have any kind of case at all, it makes
sense for the city to settle with you if your demands are reasonable. Reasonable demands would be
cost of ER visit, lost time and having them modify the sewer grates so this would not reoccur
(sheesh if they slots just ran horizontally rather then along the road, that would be good enough).

(Hunrobe) said:

It sounds as if your question is, "Can I make a few bucks?". If that's not what you're asking then
ask yourself- 1- Was my crash forseeable by a reasonably prudent traffic engineer? 2- What steps
should the city reasonably have taken to prevent it? 3- What damage has been done to you?

In the end, there is no indication that this is anything other than the cyclist's fault for not
mitigating the issue by avoiding the grate. The grate is not made for bicycles to go over. If the
grate occupied the entirety of the width of a designated bike lane, then maybe there'd be something
to wonder about. Otherwise, the cyclist is responsible for recognizing the grate and how his/her
vehicle is unable to traverse over it safely, and avoiding it, either by stopping in time, or going
around it.

--
¤bicker¤ 263/158 [email hidden] BP: 130/80 -> 100/60 See web site for Total Cholesterol:
256->200 before and after photos. Waist: 46 -> 34 brianandrobbie.combrianandrobbie.comOpen ↗ BF%: 39% -> 13%

"L H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

Rotsa Ruck!

Of course the question is best answered by a lawyer. If you choose to proceed I would recommend
finding a lawyer who will do it on contingency,
i.e. you don't pay but he takes a big piece of any proceeds. Personally, I wouldn't even consider
sueing over something like that.

bicker <[email hidden]> wrote:

: They've done nothing wrong.

While I don't normally go for this sort of thing, in this case the city has done something wrong.
Water drains should be laid with the bars running perpendicual to the flow of traffic for this
very reason.

All drain covers are laid like this in the UK now.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bicker <[email hidden]> wrote:

: They've done nothing wrong.

While I don't normally go for this sort of thing, in this case the city has done something wrong.
Water drains should be laid with the bars running perpendicual to the flow of traffic for this
very reason.

This is still not necessarily 'wrong'. The grate in question was possibly on the main street. Slots
facing L/R as relates to the direction of travel on the main street. The poster was coming from an
alley (perpendicular?). The grate slots would have been in line with his direction of travel.

"I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street."

Which 'street' was the grate on? The main street or the alley? "...at the end of an alley leading
to..." still leaves it somewhat unclear.

If it was recognizably within the construct of the alley, then yes, it should probably face the
other way. If it was within the construct of the main street, then it was probably facing the
right way.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Pete

Dunno where you live or what the laws are like there.

But in general its good to ride far enough out from the curb (about
1m) to avoid things like grills. It doesn't sound like this particular grill was in bad repair or
anything like that which would make the city negligent, it sounds like something you should not
be riding over given the size of the openings and the size of your tires 🙂

If you are ambitious you could try to start up a campaign to get your city to replace all its grills
with more bicycle-friendly ones (smaller openings) - they do exist.

[email hidden] (L H) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

In article said:

If you are ambitious you could try to start up a campaign to get your city to replace all its
grills with more bicycle-friendly ones (smaller openings) - they do exist.

Sort of like these ones they've been installing all over Cincinnati?
rcc.orgbikes.htmlOpen ↗

Wed said:

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bicker <[email hidden]> wrote:

: They've done nothing wrong.

While I don't normally go for this sort of thing, in this case the city has done something wrong.
Water drains should be laid with the bars running perpendicual to the flow of traffic for this
very reason.

This is still not necessarily 'wrong'. The grate in question was possibly on the main street. Slots
facing L/R as relates to the direction of travel on the main street. The poster was coming from an
alley (perpendicular?). The grate slots would have been in line with his direction of travel.

There's one of those grates where my driveway apron meets the lane. It's oriented properly for the
majority of traffic. I know it's there so never have any problems.
--
zk

(L H) said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

If you live in Illinois you haven't a chance in hell. See:

bikelib.orgboubmenu.htmlOpen ↗

No matter where you live (in the US) if you sue, the Boub case would likely be cited as a precedent.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

[email hidden] (L H) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but at
the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up doing a
"end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do any
serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER and I
have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

Probably not. Sometimes stuff happens, that's life. You have a witness that saw you do an endo, so
what? Besides, from what you're describing, if the grill was in the alley, the alley may not belong
to the city, which will make finding the guilty party difficult, time consuming and expensive. Hope
you get better soon. Ride carefully.

Art

"Pbwalther" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20030618092305.04151.00000926@mb-

Quoted message said:

Reasonable demands would be cost of ER visit, lost time and having them modify the sewer grates so
this would not reoccur (sheesh if they

slots

Quoted message said:

just ran horizontally rather then along the road, that would be good

enough).

If they just used grates with smaller square holes instead of slots, this would be a non-issue.

-Buck

"bicker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Hunrobe) said:

It sounds as if your question is, "Can I make a few bucks?". If that's

not what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you're asking then ask yourself- 1- Was my crash forseeable by a reasonably prudent traffic
engineer? 2- What steps should the city reasonably have taken to prevent it? 3- What damage has
been done to you?

In the end, there is no indication that this is anything other than the cyclist's fault for not
mitigating the issue by avoiding the grate. The grate is not made for bicycles to go over. If the
grate occupied the entirety of the width of a designated bike lane, then maybe there'd be
something to wonder about. Otherwise, the cyclist is responsible for recognizing the grate and how
his/her vehicle is unable to traverse over it safely, and avoiding it, either by stopping in time,
or going around it.

The city has some obligation to make sure the grate is oriented properly so it does not catch
bicycle tires. If it is a square grate, the last person doing maintenance may have accidentally
rotated it 90° before replacing it. I've seen this happen before. If it is rectangular, then the
city should be responsible for using a grate with the proper slot orientation and/or with a design
that does not catch bicycle wheels.

-Buck

"James Messick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"L H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I drove over a flat grill with openings for draining water. This one was not along a street but
at the end of a alley leading to a busy street. My tire got caught in the slot and I ended up
doing a "end over" and landed in the middle of a the street. I didnt , as far as I can tell , do
any serious injury. I feel like I have been in a car wreck. shook up and achy. I went to the ER
and I have a witness who saw the accident. Anyhow is it something worth pursuing or not?

Rotsa Ruck!

Of course the question is best answered by a lawyer. If you choose to proceed I would recommend
finding a lawyer who will do it on contingency,
i.e. you don't pay but he takes a big piece of any proceeds. Personally, I wouldn't even consider
sueing over something like that.

Wasn't there a precedent established in Illinois a couple of years ago regarding this very issue, in
which the Illinois court found that, while bicycles are permitted to use the roads, that they are
not the "primary intended users" (or something like that, and that the state was not obligated to
maintain roads specifically to be safe for cyclists?

I have no idea whether one state's precedents can be used in another state's legal proceedings, but
I rather suspect that no court would want to be the one to find that governments do have to
eliminate road hazards that threaten bikes but not motor vehicles.

In Pennsylvania where I live, people can and do sue government agencies for personal injuries
inflicted in accidents caused by "defective roads," and occasionally they win. But these are cases
where people are killed or seriously injured. If the Illinois precedent applied, however, the state
could counter that the road was not defective for cars, and that's the only standard they're
required to meet.

My non-expert civilian opinion is that in the absence of any real injury, loss of income, loss of a
limb, or anything like that, you have litrtle chance interesting a lawyer in your case, and less of
actually settling for an amount of any significance.

RichC