Cancer links

From one site.

Quoted message said:

One was Dr Elizabeth Stockert and another was Dr Lloyd Schloen. Schloen had

gone so far as to add >proteolytic enzymes to the injections - as is commonly done by laetrile
doctors - and reported a 100% cure >rate among his Swiss albino mice.5

Omitted was the finding that Laetrile used alone had no effect in this series of experiments, and
the combination of proteolytic enzymes and laetrile only worked when injected directly into small
mouse tumours.

Omitted is the fact that a nationwide search for anyone cured of cancer by Laetrile produced only
one or two dubious examples at a time when it had been used by thousands of patients, and the
anecdotal hype that always follows any new "alternative" treatment of cancer was at its highest..

Laetrile is a useless treatment and it is admitted by most alternative cancer clinics that still use
it that it does as not to work when used alone. When used in the typical cocktail of multiple
"alternative" treatments always advised these days (an admission that the evidence that any of them
work as claimed is feeble) it is impossible for anyone to tell if any individual agent works.

Peter Moran

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some info on the big C ,

anticancerinfo.co.ukb17 food.htmOpen ↗

mercola.comcancer options.htmOpen ↗

findarticles.comarticle.jhtmlOpen ↗

Even they admit it doesn't work

unlimited.co.nz9E2A527ED30396D2CC256CD3007F6757Open ↗
ch+Feature

Quoted message said:

medicaltruth.comhome.htmOpen ↗

Bew

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From one site.

Quoted message said:

One was Dr Elizabeth Stockert and another was Dr Lloyd Schloen. Schloen

had

Quoted message said:

gone so far as to add >proteolytic enzymes to the injections - as is commonly done by laetrile
doctors - and reported a 100% cure >rate among

his

Quoted message said:

Swiss albino mice.5

Omitted was the finding that Laetrile used alone had no effect in this series of experiments, and
the combination of proteolytic enzymes and laetrile only worked when injected directly into small
mouse tumours.

Omitted is the fact that a nationwide search for anyone cured of cancer by Laetrile produced only
one or two dubious examples at a time when it had been used by thousands of patients, and the
anecdotal hype that always follows any new "alternative" treatment of cancer was at its highest..

Laetrile is a useless treatment and it is admitted by most alternative cancer clinics that still
use it that it does as not to work when used alone. When used in the typical cocktail of multiple
"alternative" treatments always advised these days (an admission that the evidence that any of
them work as claimed is feeble) it is impossible for anyone to

tell

Quoted message said:

if any individual agent works.

Peter Moran

Yeah ? , well from a previous post .

The difference between conventional and alternative has really been shown to me yet once again . Two
of my friends were diagnosed with cancer several months ago ( about 8 months ) , one with prostate
cancer , the other with prostate cancer plus melanoma plus bowel cancer , he was in a bad way .
Friend 2 had already had a previous operation on his bowel , but was told the cancer had returned .

Friend one was very afraid to try anything outside the conventional treatments as he was told that
if he did not follow their procedures his chances of survival were slim , if he did follow their
procedures his chances were above 80% . Of course he was very frightened and so would not listen to
anything other than what his oncologists said . People are vulnerable when frightened and make no
mistake , conventional medicine takes great advantage of that fact , just as the quacks do . I don't
blame him for being scared , and of course we all have the right of choice , he exercised his right
, and for him it was the right decision , he was happy with his decision .

Last week he was buried and I attended his funeral .

My second friend astounded and infuriated his oncologist when he flatly refused any further
treatment from them , he was told in no uncertain terms what a fool he was and how he was basically
signing his own death certificate , the sort of words that strike fear into any person . I think
sometimes we can too easily be dismissive of the bravery it takes to face the full force of the
system , this huge machine , with all its intimidating power and it's cold production line mentality
, and tell them , thanks but no thanks , especially when it is a life and death situation , and the
life is yours .

He took a detox course of tablets . He then embarked upon a regime of organic apricot kernels in
amounts recommended by freely available information on the web , he added pineapple to help , plus
he obtained and used in copious amounts the best range of natural wellbeing and antioxidant products
he could find . Of course he cut out all the poisons like coffee , alcohol , red meat and drank only
pure water . The results do date have been great , his blood results are now returning levels so low
that the oncologist cannot accept they are real . He feels great , he is looking forward with a
positive attitude and is leading a normal life .

Maybe the answer lies somewhere in the middle of both schools of thought , certainly it seems that
poisoning a person with chemo and deadly drugs is meeting with dismal failure worldwide and yet they
persist with this . Most people would protest if they wanted to build a nuclear power station next
door , but accept the stuff being pumped into their body . I think maybe , for many the pocket comes
before the patient , it certainly does with the drug companies , they don't make money from well
people . Sadly many doctors just follow blindly along ,they are not bad people , they just cannot
open their minds and see the big picture .

Bew

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some info on the big C ,

anticancerinfo.co.ukb17 food.htmOpen ↗

mercola.comcancer options.htmOpen ↗

findarticles.comarticle.jhtmlOpen ↗

Even they admit it doesn't work

unlimited.co.nz9E2A527ED30396D2CC256CD3007F6757Open ↗
ch+Feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

medicaltruth.comhome.htmOpen ↗

Bew

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From one site.

Quoted message said:

One was Dr Elizabeth Stockert and another was Dr Lloyd Schloen. Schloen

had

Quoted message said:

gone so far as to add >proteolytic enzymes to the injections - as is commonly done by laetrile
doctors - and reported a 100% cure >rate among

his

Quoted message said:

Swiss albino mice.5

Omitted was the finding that Laetrile used alone had no effect in this series of experiments,
and the combination of proteolytic enzymes and laetrile only worked when injected directly into
small mouse tumours.

Omitted is the fact that a nationwide search for anyone cured of cancer

by

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Laetrile produced only one or two dubious examples at a time when it had been used by thousands
of patients, and the anecdotal hype that always follows any new "alternative" treatment of
cancer was at its highest..

Laetrile is a useless treatment and it is admitted by most alternative cancer clinics that still
use it that it does as not to work when used alone. When used in the typical cocktail of
multiple "alternative" treatments always advised these days (an admission that the evidence

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any of them work as claimed is feeble) it is impossible for anyone to

tell

Quoted message said:

if any individual agent works.

Peter Moran

Yeah ? , well from a previous post .

The difference between conventional and alternative has really been shown

to

Quoted message said:

me yet once again . Two of my friends were diagnosed with cancer several months ago ( about 8
months ) , one with prostate cancer , the other

with

Quoted message said:

prostate cancer plus melanoma plus bowel cancer , he was in a bad way . Friend 2 had already had a
previous operation on his bowel , but was told the cancer had returned .

Friend one was very afraid to try anything outside the conventional treatments as he was told that
if he did not follow their procedures his chances of survival were slim , if he did follow their
procedures his chances were above 80% . Of course he was very frightened and so would

not

Quoted message said:

listen to anything other than what his oncologists said . People are vulnerable when frightened
and make no mistake , conventional medicine

takes

Quoted message said:

great advantage of that fact , just as the quacks do . I don't blame him

for

Quoted message said:

being scared , and of course we all have the right of choice , he

exercised

Quoted message said:

his right , and for him it was the right decision , he was happy with his decision .

Last week he was buried and I attended his funeral .

If he died within eight months of the diagnosis of prostate cancer he had a very advanced anaplastic
and hormonally resistant example of prostate cancer when diagnosed, and it seems unlikely that he
would have been offered 80% success. Forgive me, but I would like to have the oncologist's version
of this story.

Quoted message said:

My second friend astounded and infuriated his oncologist when he flatly refused any further
treatment from them , he was told in no uncertain

terms

Quoted message said:

what a fool he was and how he was basically signing his own death certificate , the sort of words
that strike fear into any person .

This is the one who "was told his cancer had returned". On such a third hand account you are
prepared to believe that apricot kernels cured him f ----- what? Prostate cancer mostly has a slow
and indolent course and we are given no details as to its present status, if it was ever securely
diagnosed in the first place. Most melanomas are cured by excission biopsy and even advanced
melanomas may not show metastases in eight months or much longer. What stage of bowel cancer did he
have and what evidence was there that it had returned? Bowel cancer in stages up to early C has a
good prognosis with surgery. It is a poor example to use to show the uselessness of conventional
treatments.

Any doctor knows how second and third hand accounts of such stuff are useless. I have had patients
tell me they have cancer when they are not. I have had patients convinced they are dying of cancer
when they are not. This stuff is only conving to those who don't know better.

Quoted message said:

I think sometimes we can too easily be dismissive of the bravery it takes to face the full force of
the system , this huge machine , with all its intimidating power and it's cold production line
mentality , and tell them

,

Quoted message said:

thanks but no thanks , especially when it is a life and death situation , and the life is yours .

He took a detox course of tablets . He then embarked upon a regime of organic apricot kernels in
amounts recommended by freely available information on the web , he added pineapple to help , plus
he obtained and used in copious amounts the best range of natural wellbeing and

antioxidant

Quoted message said:

products he could find . Of course he cut out all the poisons like coffee

,

Quoted message said:

alcohol , red meat and drank only pure water . The results do date have

been

Quoted message said:

great , his blood results are now returning levels so low that the oncologist cannot accept they
are real . He feels great , he is looking forward with a positive attitude and is leading a
normal life .

Maybe the answer lies somewhere in the middle of both schools of thought , certainly it seems that
poisoning a person with chemo and deadly drugs is meeting with dismal failure worldwide and yet
they persist with this .

What do you know about chemotherapy? Honestly? All you know is what is you have read on alternative
sites that have very good reasons for painting the conventional treatment of cancer in the worst
possible light. Then people are less inclined to ask penetrating questions about what "alternaitve"
methods actually acheive. You won't be told there about the high cure rates of some kinds of cancer
with chemotherapy alone, the remarkable remissions and palliation that can be obtained with other
types of cancer, and the higher cure rates that can be acheived when chemotherapy is combined with
other forms of primary treatment as an adjuvant. You also will not find medicine hiding where its
results are poor; do a Medline search and it is all there-- but even with bad cancers like NSCLC
useful palliation is possible with modern chemotherapy.

Quoted message said:

Most people would protest if they wanted to build a nuclear power station next door , but accept
the stuff being pumped into their body . I think maybe , for many the pocket comes before the
patient , it certainly does with the drug companies , they don't make money from well people .
Sadly many

doctors

Quoted message said:

just follow blindly along ,they are not bad people , they just cannot open their minds and see the
big picture .

The big picture that you think is there is based upon such slender anecdotal evidence as you
have quoted above and a one-sided selection of reading matter. When you delve further into the
results of those supposedly offering alternative cancer treatments suddenly there is no
documentation to support the claims. The Gerson clinic has treated thousands of cancer patients,
has innumerable testimonial reports of cancer cures on its site, but when it was asked to
produce a dozen well-documented "best cases" with the promise that a large clinical trial would
ensue, it was unable to do so.

It is time vocal supporters of AM like yourself realised where the problem, if there is a problem,
truly lies, and that is that testimonial and anecdote not only aren't throwing up spectacularly
successful cancer treatments, they are more certainly not going to convince those with the money to
investigate treatments further, such as the NCCAM.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Bew

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some info on the big C ,

anticancerinfo.co.ukb17 food.htmOpen ↗

mercola.comcancer options.htmOpen ↗

findarticles.comarticle.jhtmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even they admit it doesn't work

unlimited.co.nz9E2A527ED30396D2CC256CD3007F6757Open ↗
ch+Feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

medicaltruth.comhome.htmOpen ↗

Bew

Bew, for your further edification, I include a message I just sent to another list. I don't have
permission to identify the initial poster.

(Anon----)

Quoted message said:

I have 15 years experience working with cancer patients and I have not met one yet who was cured
with alternative medicine but all were much poorer

and

Quoted message said:

most bitter for the experience.

My experience over double that time (as a surgeon) is similar. I recently spoke to the local
oncologist who for many years has been documenting his patient's use of alternatives, and his
experience is the same.

Yet I don't blame desperate patients for trying literally anything that might help.

Those I do despise are those who are totally ignorant about the realities of cancer and its
treatment, but who still like to make sure that cancer quacks get all the promotion they need, even
for ridiculous or completely disproved treatments.

I can (mostly) understand the quacks themselves. I know how they can be misled by the quirks of
medical practice. I can even comprehend the vicious exploitation of cancer patients by those who are
frankly fraudulent. What I can't understand is those who staunchly support them with no direct or
certain knowledge where the truth lies or even the wherewithal to know the truth if they found it.

Many clearly do it as part of the ancient sport of doctor-bashing, but the interests of cancer
patients are far too serious for such insincerities.

Peter Moran

Exactly why it is pointless trying to even discuss the issues , I can just as easily tell you that
the story below is a load of [censored] and equally you can't prove me wrong . Everyone has different
experiences and different beliefs , I tell you about a person who used apricot kernels to cure
cancer , you tell me that is [censored] . You tell me about some dude who has supposedly spent 15 years
working with cancer patients who hasn't seen any alternative methods work , I say to you that may
easily be so because he probably has never looked , so I say his viewpoint is [censored]. What is the
point of the discussion ? , just to go around in circles ? You won't convince me that what I have
experienced and seen isn't true and I will never convince you to change your point of view .

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4046c1a2$0$32761$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
01.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

Bew, for your further edification, I include a message I just sent to another list. I don't have
permission to identify the initial poster.

(Anon----)

Quoted message said:

I have 15 years experience working with cancer patients and I have not

met

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one yet who was cured with alternative medicine but all were much poorer

and

Quoted message said:

most bitter for the experience.

My experience over double that time (as a surgeon) is similar. I

recently

Quoted message said:

spoke to the local oncologist who for many years has been documenting his patient's use of
alternatives, and his experience is the same.

Yet I don't blame desperate patients for trying literally anything that might help.

Those I do despise are those who are totally ignorant about the

realities

Quoted message said:

of cancer and its treatment, but who still like to make sure that cancer quacks get all the
promotion they need, even for ridiculous or completely

disproved

Quoted message said:

treatments.

I can (mostly) understand the quacks themselves. I know how they can be misled by the quirks of
medical practice. I can even comprehend the vicious exploitation of cancer patients by those who
are frankly

fraudulent.

Quoted message said:

What I can't understand is those who staunchly support them with no

direct

Quoted message said:

or certain knowledge where the truth lies or even the wherewithal to know the truth if they
found it.

Many clearly do it as part of the ancient sport of doctor-bashing, but the interests of cancer
patients are far too serious for such insincerities.

Peter Moran

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Exactly why it is pointless trying to even discuss the issues , I can just as easily tell you that
the story below is a load of [censored] and equally you can't prove me wrong . Everyone has different
experiences and different beliefs , I tell you about a person who used apricot kernels to cure

cancer

Quoted message said:

, you tell me that is [censored] . You tell me about some dude who has

supposedly

Quoted message said:

spent 15 years working with cancer patients who hasn't seen any

alternative

Quoted message said:

methods work , I say to you that may easily be so because he probably has never looked , so I say
his viewpoint is [censored]. What is the point of the discussion ? , just to go around in circles ? You
won't convince me that what I have experienced and seen isn't true and

I

Quoted message said:

will never convince you to change your point of view .

And Bevie-poo whines that advocates for Realmedicine have a closed mind. However, I have yet to see
one alternative treatment that has been proven to work that was rejected by RealMedicine.