I was cycling to work, as i do eveyday, and ran a red light. This is a pedestrian crossing and only signals to let pedestrians cross. 25-50 m futher down the road is a side road joining which is marked with give way. This moring i went through the red light and a car pulled out to turn right from that side road, i hit the car went over the bonnet etc. Ambulance & Police etc turned up but i was fine. Woman didnt get out of the car, then drove off, came back 20 mins later when the police had arrived. She had gone to drop her kid off at school! Anyhow, i have been found a fault, as i ran the red light. I can accept this, and i will pay the fine. However, i feel blame should also be applied to the woman. whether or not i ran the red light is irrelevant, her junction was not controlled by these lights, she still pulled out WITHOUT looking and hit a cyclist. There are driveways from houses after the lights before the side road where the accident had happened, im pretty sure she would still have hit me if i had came out of there. I feel i broke the law, but it is still the responsibility of the driver to look before turning across traffic! i feel slightly aggrieved that i have been hit (got some nice bumps!) and have 100% of the blame place on me. whether or not i went through a red light should have no affect on the junction and when it is apropriate for a car to pull out. I would have been the other side of the red light when she started to pull out. Just wanted peoples opinions on this
Car Vs Cyclist, who is at fault
- Thread starter Funnings
- Start date
The point is, if she had looked as required would the accident still have happened? when emerging from any junction, especially when crossing the line of traffic, surely you should have to look! My pedestrian crossing red light does not alter any action taking by her at hers. They are seperate and she still has give way. What if it was emergency sevces going through the lights? or i if i had emerged from one of the houses between the lights and her junction?
It seems like rugby rules not legal ones are applied.
It seems like rugby rules not legal ones are applied.
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]I'm glad you weren't hurt any worse; you could be writing this from a hospital bed or a coffin, you know. Well, maybe not from the coffin..... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]I don't have a clue what the laws are about this. But speaking strictly from a logical standpoint, I see two sides to it. One is that if you had not run the red light, you would not have been there when she pulled out, because you'd still have been at the red light, right? So in that area ONLY, this could be considered sort of, maybe, the tiniest bit, maybe 5% your blame. (And please stop doing that. )[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]BUT. Whether you ran the red light or not SHOULD be irrelevant, regardless of what the law says. What if a 4-year-old with training wheels pulled out of one of the driveways and across that road? Should the driver be allowed to hit HER, pulling out without looking? How about if a grade-schooler on his first bike ran that red light on his way to school. Should the driver get away with plowing into him?? There is NO excuse for pulling into a road without looking, EVER, and the driver is just very lucky she didn't kill you. Because then she would be being charged with involuntary manslaughter, and nobody would CARE that you had run the red light. [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]The real point is, I think, that in a collision with cars, we cyclists are always going to lose, physically. Period. Regardless of what the laws say. And since most drivers don't keep an eye out for us, it's up to us to keep an eye out for them, and protect ourselves. Be glad you're still here to complain about it.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]And by the way -- why wasn't she charged with leaving the scene of an accident? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/nonono2.gif[/COLOR] These are strange days.[/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]I don't have a clue what the laws are about this. But speaking strictly from a logical standpoint, I see two sides to it. One is that if you had not run the red light, you would not have been there when she pulled out, because you'd still have been at the red light, right? So in that area ONLY, this could be considered sort of, maybe, the tiniest bit, maybe 5% your blame. (And please stop doing that. )[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]BUT. Whether you ran the red light or not SHOULD be irrelevant, regardless of what the law says. What if a 4-year-old with training wheels pulled out of one of the driveways and across that road? Should the driver be allowed to hit HER, pulling out without looking? How about if a grade-schooler on his first bike ran that red light on his way to school. Should the driver get away with plowing into him?? There is NO excuse for pulling into a road without looking, EVER, and the driver is just very lucky she didn't kill you. Because then she would be being charged with involuntary manslaughter, and nobody would CARE that you had run the red light. [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]The real point is, I think, that in a collision with cars, we cyclists are always going to lose, physically. Period. Regardless of what the laws say. And since most drivers don't keep an eye out for us, it's up to us to keep an eye out for them, and protect ourselves. Be glad you're still here to complain about it.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= 12px]And by the way -- why wasn't she charged with leaving the scene of an accident? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/nonono2.gif[/COLOR] These are strange days.[/SIZE]
Way to go buddy - just add another statistic of "cyclists are morons who don't adhere to road laws."
"I feel broke the law"? What's this "feel" business. You broke it, plain and simple and you ended up in a rather crappy situation. If you had stopped for the duration of that red light you would not have been sliding none-to-gracefully across the front of that car... If emergency services have to go through red lights then they turn on fecking loud sirens that people 1/2 a mile a way can hear and lots of bright flashing lights. Hardly conspicuous.
She probably did look - at the traffic light that had been red, probably for sometime, and thought it was OK to go. Cyclists aren't always the most visable things on the road and having one pop up in her face and across the hood of her car probably was the last thing she was expecting. "Hmmmm, lights are red, no cars... time to go..."
25m or 50m - there's a significant distance difference there. Not sure how fast you were going but 17mph is about 7.5 meters per second... 25 meters that's all of three seconds of viewing time for her. Kind of explains why she probably didn't get any blame. I don't think motorists are expected to have swivel heads that look both ways twice a second...
Just be glad you're not in America. You'd probably be having your pants sued off your behind for the traumatic stress, for her and the kids and damage to her car that you caused...
Just be happy with the fact that you didn't break anything or needed stitches.
If I was in your position, i'd be quietly moving on. Thankful to be alive and glad no one knows I blast through red lights and into cars. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif Book 30 minutes with a solicitor and you'll soon find out if you have a case or not.
when did give way mean go whenever you like? or you "assume" nothing to the right is coming, as someway up that road there is a pedestrian crossing!! when did assumption stop becoming the mother of all f**k ups. i went through a red light. 25-50m is a big differnece. i know it is atleast 2 big houses drive ways away from the pedestrian crossing (it is remuera, auckland!).
I have seen a lawyer (well spoken to my frined who is one) and he says its the kind of case which he see's no blame (which is what i have been advocating the whole time, i never said i was a saint for jumping the light) but regardless, the driver has to be sure its safe to cross. the junction has no baring on the other cars. was it 25m? was it 50? im not sure, but i can tell you i was about 5m away when sshe pulled out! and it was a 4 lane road (2 in both direction) and i was only one in my lane in the middle of it.
swampy, you sound like a car driver! you should get an IT technician to look at your " key, must be horrible to have to CONSTANTLY speak in someone elses voice
I have seen a lawyer (well spoken to my frined who is one) and he says its the kind of case which he see's no blame (which is what i have been advocating the whole time, i never said i was a saint for jumping the light) but regardless, the driver has to be sure its safe to cross. the junction has no baring on the other cars. was it 25m? was it 50? im not sure, but i can tell you i was about 5m away when sshe pulled out! and it was a 4 lane road (2 in both direction) and i was only one in my lane in the middle of it.
swampy, you sound like a car driver! you should get an IT technician to look at your " key, must be horrible to have to CONSTANTLY speak in someone elses voice
thankyou
[*] SierraSlim
[*] i feel i have learnt from this accident, i wont be running the lights soon! but i feel without duel reponsibility the driver of the car wont learn anything, when in fact she needs to be more vigilent. I used to live and ride in london, i felt safer there than in auckland!! noone ever looks.
[*] SierraSlim
[*] i feel i have learnt from this accident, i wont be running the lights soon! but i feel without duel reponsibility the driver of the car wont learn anything, when in fact she needs to be more vigilent. I used to live and ride in london, i felt safer there than in auckland!! noone ever looks.
You get a ticket for running the red light.
She gets a ticket for negligent driving.
She gets a ticket for leaving the scene.
If you take it further, this will be the best outcome you could hope for.
Reality - you're a plonker for running the red light. I could be a lot more abusive, but this isn't TAN.
- you might get off on the ticket for being at fault
- you're going to get a ticket anyway
So are you prepared to spend money on making sure she gets at least one ticket, in the (possibly forlorn) hope that you end up with the smaller ticket for running a red light as opposed to causing the accident?
The only thing you can feel hard done by is that you got a tosspot of a copper that automatically blamed you for everything, rather than a component part of the whole shebang.
Oh and by the way, I AM glad you're not badly hurt.
She gets a ticket for negligent driving.
She gets a ticket for leaving the scene.
If you take it further, this will be the best outcome you could hope for.
Reality - you're a plonker for running the red light. I could be a lot more abusive, but this isn't TAN.
- you might get off on the ticket for being at fault
- you're going to get a ticket anyway
So are you prepared to spend money on making sure she gets at least one ticket, in the (possibly forlorn) hope that you end up with the smaller ticket for running a red light as opposed to causing the accident?
The only thing you can feel hard done by is that you got a tosspot of a copper that automatically blamed you for everything, rather than a component part of the whole shebang.
Oh and by the way, I AM glad you're not badly hurt.
[COLOR= #000000][SIZE= 12px]"SierraSlim i feel i have learnt from this accident, i wont be running the lights soon! but i feel without duel reponsibility the driver of the car wont learn anything, when in fact she needs to be more vigilent. I used to live and ride in london, i felt safer there than in auckland!! noone ever looks. "[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 12px][COLOR= #0000ff]Funnings, I thought about you yesterday when I breezed through a stop sign without looking. Admittedly, it was on a road I've done before that almost NEVER has any traffic at all -- but of course, there could have been, this time, and I thought, "And I gave that guy a hard time about running through the red light!" So you have my apologies. And I too will try to remember to be much more careful, even on isolated roads. Because if the driver ISN'T being vigilant, our vigilance could easily save our lives.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 12px][COLOR= #0000ff]I agree totally that drivers SHOULD be made to pay up when something like this happens, even if the 'payment' is only having to go to a weekend class on safely driving around cyclists. But the unfortunate fact is that most places just don't care enough about cyclists to make that happen. At least in my part of California, bikers seem to be respected and watched for more than what I've read about other places. They seem to take care of the bike lanes and make a lot of bike paths here that are closed to vehicular traffic, which is really nice. We're actually basing where we're moving to in Arizona on making sure we're near bike paths. [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 12px][COLOR= #0000ff]IMHO, in a perfect world there would BE no cars. We'd have hovercraft or something instead. But until then, be careful, friend. We don't want your next post to be from the hospital.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 12px][COLOR= #0000ff]Funnings, I thought about you yesterday when I breezed through a stop sign without looking. Admittedly, it was on a road I've done before that almost NEVER has any traffic at all -- but of course, there could have been, this time, and I thought, "And I gave that guy a hard time about running through the red light!" So you have my apologies. And I too will try to remember to be much more careful, even on isolated roads. Because if the driver ISN'T being vigilant, our vigilance could easily save our lives.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 12px][COLOR= #0000ff]I agree totally that drivers SHOULD be made to pay up when something like this happens, even if the 'payment' is only having to go to a weekend class on safely driving around cyclists. But the unfortunate fact is that most places just don't care enough about cyclists to make that happen. At least in my part of California, bikers seem to be respected and watched for more than what I've read about other places. They seem to take care of the bike lanes and make a lot of bike paths here that are closed to vehicular traffic, which is really nice. We're actually basing where we're moving to in Arizona on making sure we're near bike paths. [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 12px][COLOR= #0000ff]IMHO, in a perfect world there would BE no cars. We'd have hovercraft or something instead. But until then, be careful, friend. We don't want your next post to be from the hospital.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
