Carbon fiber in bicycles: Really worthwhile?

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Is carbon REALLY an improvement? Especially when used
for shock absorption?

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

If shock absorption and comfort are the goals, then get yourself some
fatter tires like 700x25 or 28 and pump them up to 85-90psi. THAT will
make more difference than carbon handlebars, forks, or seatstays.
Believe me, I have a carbon frame and fork and the fatter tires help
"as much," if not more!

bfd said:

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Quoted message said:

Is carbon REALLY an improvement? Especially when used
for shock absorption?

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

If shock absorption and comfort are the goals, then get yourself some
fatter tires like 700x25 or 28 and pump them up to 85-90psi. THAT will
make more difference than carbon handlebars, forks, or seatstays.
Believe me, I have a carbon frame and fork and the fatter tires help
"as much," if not more!

Have you converted your Calfee to 650B yet, Mr. Fong? Or do you just
hype 650B to others? ;-)

Some of your 650B hype:

http://tinyurl.com/37nvsu

We can see that you talk the talk, but what's between your dropouts?
Is that 700c I see?

Ozark Bicycle said:

bfd said:

On Jul 20, 8:26 am, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is carbon REALLY an improvement? Especially when used
for shock absorption?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

Quoted message said:

If shock absorption and comfort are the goals, then get yourself some
fatter tires like 700x25 or 28 and pump them up to 85-90psi. THAT will
make more difference than carbon handlebars, forks, or seatstays.
Believe me, I have a carbon frame and fork and the fatter tires help
"as much," if not more!

Have you converted your Calfee to 650B yet, Mr. Fong? Or do you just
hype 650B to others? ;-)

Some of your 650B hype:

http://tinyurl.com/37nvsu

We can see that you talk the talk, but what's between your dropouts?
Is that 700c I see?- Hide quoted text -

700c or not, if you ride on big tires at low inflation -- it feels
like you are riding on big tires at low inflation. The deal with
dampening in other ways is that you still get the liveliness of a
narrower, high psi tire. I have CF bars that I got on sale (too
expensive to buy any other way), and I can't tell if they dampen or
not because there is too much difference in the profile of the bar
(flat top). The profile is what I like. It spreads the shock out
more and you get more padding from the tape. The question really
should be assuming that you keep tires, inflation, saddle the same, do
CF bars, posts, etc. make a difference. In my experience with CF posts
and bars -- no. Forks -- yes, but not like night and day. I had some
Kestrel forks that were indistinguishable in feel from some SP forks
-- both were hard as rocks. I have never had a CF frame and don't know
if they are truly magical, but people seem to think so.-- Jay Beattie.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jay Beattie said:

I have never had a CF frame and don't know if they are truly magical

Well, obviously they are not. :-D I've only ridden one carbon fiber
bike and that was the Trek Y-Foil so it was not an apples-to-apples type
of comparison. The bike seemed noticeably springy in the rear but that
could have been purely psych.

http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/Y-Foil.htm

http://johno.myiglou.com/yfoil.html

If you run 700C X 23 tires on two otherwise similar CF and aluminum
framed bikes, the differences are not that noticable, in my opinion.

catzz66 said:

If you run 700C X 23 tires on two otherwise similar CF and aluminum
framed bikes, the differences are not that noticable, in my opinion.

Agreed, IMO.

bfd said:

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Is carbon REALLY an improvement? Especially when used
for shock absorption?

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

If shock absorption and comfort are the goals, then get yourself some
fatter tires like 700x25 or 28 and pump them up to 85-90psi. THAT will
make more difference than carbon handlebars, forks, or seatstays.
Believe me, I have a carbon frame and fork and the fatter tires help
"as much," if not more!

Yeah -- tires/pressure and then saddles are the key things to ride
comfort (beyond proper fit)

Carbon fiber is nice for performance bikes because they can be light
and stiff and durable all at once.

On the other hand, for sure there are comfort differences in
handlebars but comfort is not limited to carbon fiber bars - very
light aluminum bars can be flexy and absorb shock too

--
JT
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Jay Beattie said:

I have never had a CF frame and don't know
if they are truly magical, but people seem to think so.-- Jay Beattie.

I have two bikes I ride a lot. Same seats, seatposts, handlebars on
them, but very different stems. Similar forks from same manufacturer,
though one has a steel steerer and one has an aluminum steerer. One
is steel (mainly 853 - a LeMond) and the other is carbon fiber )Trek
OCLV). They feel the same to me. The Trek is lighter. I was very
happy that it feels as good as the LeMond, which I had first, while
being lighter.
--
JT
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The main feature of carbon fiber is weight- it is very light.

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Is carbon REALLY an improvement? Especially when used
for shock absorption?

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

cT = 0.8

Ears said:

The main feature of carbon fiber is weight- it is very light.

not necessarily. a more accurate statement is that it has a high
strength to weight ratio.

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Is carbon REALLY an improvement?

if you want the same or better strength, /and/ get better fatigue
properties, then yes, carbon most definitely is an improvement.

[provided it's of sufficient quality of course. cheap carbon can be scary.]

Quoted message said:

Especially when used
for shock absorption?

it's not an elastomer, so absorption is not how i'd describe it. but it
definitely attenuates shock transmission depending on frequency.

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

not so much bars, but forks and seat posts, most definitely.

On Jul 20, 5:08 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah -- tires/pressure and then saddles are the key things to ride
comfort (beyond proper fit)

Good post JT. I'm perpetually amazed at people who expound the
suspension characteristics of things that have... none. You will get
some shock attenuation from bars, stems, forks, etc... but when they
flex the handling is also compromised. If you really want suspension
then you need something with springs and dampers.

Ron Ruff said:

On Jul 20, 5:08 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah -- tires/pressure and then saddles are the key things to ride
comfort (beyond proper fit)

Good post JT. I'm perpetually amazed at people who expound the
suspension characteristics of things that have... none. You will get
some shock attenuation from bars, stems, forks, etc... but when they
flex the handling is also compromised. If you really want suspension
then you need something with springs and dampers.

they don't necessarily flex any more than their steel [or aluminum or
ti] counterparts. [attenuation of] shock transmission is not the same
as flex.

jim beam said:

Ron Ruff said:

On Jul 20, 5:08 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah -- tires/pressure and then saddles are the key things to ride
comfort (beyond proper fit)

Good post JT. I'm perpetually amazed at people who expound the
suspension characteristics of things that have... none. You will get
some shock attenuation from bars, stems, forks, etc... but when they
flex the handling is also compromised. If you really want suspension
then you need something with springs and dampers.

they don't necessarily flex any more than their steel [or aluminum or
ti] counterparts. [attenuation of] shock transmission is not the same
as flex.

How does it work? I've heard for example that the handle of a hammer
should be made from hickory or ash as these materials have good shock
absorption properties. Is there any difference between steel, aluminium
and CF from this point of view?

I read a good article by Sheldon explaining that for a given material
the frame designer will choose tubing diameter and thickness for the
stiffness he wants. So a steel bike could be stiffer than an Al one, or
less stiff, or whatever you want really.

Here it is:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

But if stiffness is not the same as shock-absorptiveness, perhaps
there's another dimension to it, perhaps related to damping.

In other words suppose I make two frames with the same stiffness out of
different materials (i.e. using different tubing diameters/thicknesses
so they work out the same), and with the same geometry, will one still
be more comfortable than the other? Perhaps they oscillate at the same
frequency over bumps but on one of them the vibrations decay quicker?

jim beam said:

not so much bars, but forks and seat posts,

Why some things and not others?
--
JT
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Confessiong to the ownership of a carbon fiber crank and fork...

I loose some weight. However, notice that many carbon cranks weigh as
much as the AL versions.

It's mostly for looks and a fad.

It CAN be extremely stiff rather than shock absorbing, just like any
other material.

For handlebars, it can be made into shapes with bumps, bends, flat
areas, etc that can't be done as effectively with other materials.

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Is carbon REALLY an improvement? Especially when used
for shock absorption?

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

Quoted message said:

I've never owned or ridden a bicycle with carbon fiber
based components. I see carbon handlebars, forks, seat
stays in many of them tho.

Is carbon REALLY an improvement? Especially when used
for shock absorption?

A friend of mine bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker and
installed carbon fiber handlebars on it and says it
made it MUCH more comfortable for touring as far as
shock absorption. Anyone else have same results?

Carbon stuff is lighter is all. No carbon fiber seatpost, handlebar or
stem(really wrapped aluminum) makes for shock absorbsion. A whole
carbon bike, including fork, may 'feel' different but marketing has
riders believing it has some magical properties(hear that about
magnesium also) but it's really whizbang and just lighter. Remember
'lighter' isn't necessarily better, just 'lighter'. Lots of CF is the
'plastic spoilers on cars' of bike stuff.

Ben C said:

jim beam said:

Ron Ruff said:

On Jul 20, 5:08 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> Yeah -- tires/pressure and then saddles are the key things to ride
> comfort (beyond proper fit)
Good post JT. I'm perpetually amazed at people who expound the
suspension characteristics of things that have... none. You will get
some shock attenuation from bars, stems, forks, etc... but when they
flex the handling is also compromised. If you really want suspension
then you need something with springs and dampers.

they don't necessarily flex any more than their steel [or aluminum or
ti] counterparts. [attenuation of] shock transmission is not the same
as flex.

How does it work? I've heard for example that the handle of a hammer
should be made from hickory or ash as these materials have good shock
absorption properties. Is there any difference between steel, aluminium
and CF from this point of view?

I read a good article by Sheldon explaining that for a given material
the frame designer will choose tubing diameter and thickness for the
stiffness he wants. So a steel bike could be stiffer than an Al one, or
less stiff, or whatever you want really.

Here it is:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

But if stiffness is not the same as shock-absorptiveness, perhaps
there's another dimension to it, perhaps related to damping.

In other words suppose I make two frames with the same stiffness out of
different materials (i.e. using different tubing diameters/thicknesses
so they work out the same), and with the same geometry, will one still
be more comfortable than the other? Perhaps they oscillate at the same
frequency over bumps but on one of them the vibrations decay quicker?

vibrations decay quicker. to be honest, i'm not sufficiently sure of
the physics to explain [and i'm not going to make it up], but fwiu a
materials viewpoint, there is a "deadening" effect associated with
hysteresis in the polymer. it's affected by fiber orientation,
compaction, fiber length, etc.