"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:There are many types of composites in aircraft - the differences are
mainly in the resin (or matrix) properties and methods of manufacture.
It's almost a certainty that the composites used in the 787 are not used
by bike manufacturers (the latter using cheaper alternatives).
This is categorically untrue. Presently, the domestic carbon fiber bike
industry (at least one manufacturer anyway) is using a high-modulus carbon
fiber that is not allowed to be exported into China (or many other
countries). This stuff is very expensive, extraordinarily high-quality and
has many military applications.
I'm not sure you read my statement correctly. The fact that some carbon
fiber types are not allowed export to China says nothing about whether 787
composites are used in the bike industry. As I've stated, there are many
types of composites.
You need to remember that composite components, and the particular composite
material used, are chosen specifically for the intended use. Since the 787
composites are new, and have specialist characteristics desirable for the
aircraft itself, not least Boeing's specific requirement to meet its own
BMS8-276 specification for primary structure prepregs
(http://www.compositesworld.com/hpc/issues/2007/May/111535), it is almost a
certainty that the composites used in the 787 are not used by bike
manufacturers (the latter using cheaper alternatives).
Here's an extract from the ref:
"Without doubt, the largest supplier of 787 composite materials is Toray
Industries (Tokyo, Japan). The company is providing its trademarked Torayca
3900-series highly toughened carbon fiber-reinforced epoxy prepreg for the
787's primary structure in unidirectional tape (various widths), narrow slit
tape (for fiber placement), and woven fabric forms. The majority of the
3900-series materials will be made with intermediate modulus T800S fiber.
According to Earl Benton, director of sales and marketing for Toray's U.S.
subsidiary Toray Composites (America) Inc. (TCA, Tacoma, Wash.), the T800S
fiber, which replaced the T800H fiber used initially on the Boeing 777, is
the result of improved carbon fiber manufacturing processes, which result in
higher production rates, and better availability without sacrificing
mechanical performance or the company's ability to meet Boeing's rigorous
BMS8-276 specification for primary structure prepregs. Boeing qualified the
prepreg's basic unidirectional product form for the 777 prior to 2004, in
advance of the 787 program."
On the other hand, if you are saying that the bike industry is NOT using
cheaper alternatives to 787 composites, you will have to cite the bike
composite material you think is as expensive as the 787 composite.
In the matter of CF export prohibitions from the US to China, it's a
relatively new regulation (2007); see
http://www.hklaw.com/Publications/Newsletters.asp?IssueID=810&Article=4172
"Under What Circumstances Do the New Restrictions Apply?
Licensing restrictions apply if: (1) a product, software or technology is
identified in the expanded list of controlled items; and (2) the U.S.
exporter knows or has reason to know that the item is going to a military
end-use."
Which Products, Software and Technology Are Included on the New List of
Controlled Items?
Listed Items
The list of products, software and technology are all items already
identified on the Commerce Control List (CCL) of controlled dual-use goods.
However, the new restrictions apply to items that, prior to issuance of this
regulation, could generally be exported without a license to any country and
entity person - except embargoed countries and certain prohibited
end-users/end-uses. The list identifies products from various categories -
including, but not limited to, the following:
a.. aircraft
b.. aero gas turbine engines
c.. airborne communication and navigation systems
d.. carbon fiber and prepregs for use in composite structures
e.. hydraulic fluids "
etc.....
Quoted message said:Boeing has spent a fair amount of time in Waterloo, Wisconsin lately.
Perhaps you can figure out why.
Could be a gazillion things. Possibilities:
- Trek contracts Boeing QC expertise in manufacturing their carbon fiber
frames
- Seek Boeing expertise in damage assessment
- Licence Boeing composites for Trek bike frames
Why don't you use your contacts to find out?
