cartridge type BB in an old road frame

dan_s said:

i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW) which
has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB is
probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with the
sugino type, as in here:
http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
is it worth doing the conversion?

A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread. I think the
Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern cartridge BB available in
French thread.

Art Harris

i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW)
which has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB
is probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with
the sugino type, as in here:
http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
is it worth doing the conversion?

thanks a bunch

dan_s said:

Arthur Harris said:

dan_s said:

i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana,
FWIW) which has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the
current BB is probably (not sure about thread type and direction)
compatible with the sugino type, as in here:
http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
is it worth doing the conversion?

A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread. I
think the Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern cartridge
BB available in French thread.
Art Harris

hi Mark, Art
i want to replace the BB because it doesn't run smooth, although it
has been so for some thousands of Km's. it will probably run with no
problem for quite a while but i'd rather have something better

the only new cup n cone BB i found is from sugino, which is probably
not too bad
are there other available?
do i need extra harware to fit a cartridge type BB?

There are a couple of NOS french bottom brackets on ebay today with a
BIN option.

Mark Hickey said:

Really the only advantage to a cartridge type BB is availability,
IMHO. They're somewhat heavier, and can't be maintained (so they'll
wear out quicker than the re-lubable, adjustable, rebuildable cup and
cone BB).

which you have to re-lube, adjust, and re-build regularly. My memories of
the old cup-and-cone bottom brackets are less pleasant than Mark's.
For me, the bottom bracket always seemed to require more maintenance
than anything else. Dirt, water, and crud seems to gravitate towards
the bottom bracket (quite literally, actually). The new cartridge ones
are great, IMO. They are cheap and last much longer than the maintenance
intervals of my old ones.

Whether the OP can find one to fit his old French bike is another story.
Check with Sheldon Brown.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front
_`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of
(_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The
internet has proven this not to be the case.

Arthur Harris said:

dan_s said:

i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW) which
has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB is
probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with the
sugino type, as in here:
http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
is it worth doing the conversion?

A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread. I think the
Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern cartridge BB available in
French thread.

Art Harris

hi Mark, Art
i want to replace the BB because it doesn't run smooth, although it has
been so for some thousands of Km's. it will probably run with no problem
for quite a while but i'd rather have something better

the only new cup n cone BB i found is from sugino, which is probably not
too bad
are there other available?
do i need extra harware to fit a cartridge type BB?

Arthur Harris said:

A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread.
I think the Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern
cartridge BB available in French thread.

Specialités TA still make their AXIX bottom brackets in French threading.
Not a cheap option, and I don't know about US availability.

http://www.specialites-ta.com/produits/bb/boitiersinfo.htm

James Thomson

David L. Johnson said:

Mark Hickey said:

Really the only advantage to a cartridge type BB is availability,
IMHO. They're somewhat heavier, and can't be maintained (so

they'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wear out quicker than the re-lubable, adjustable, rebuildable cup

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cone BB).

which you have to re-lube, adjust, and re-build regularly. My

memories of

Quoted message said:

the old cup-and-cone bottom brackets are less pleasant than Mark's.
For me, the bottom bracket always seemed to require more maintenance
than anything else. Dirt, water, and crud seems to gravitate towards
the bottom bracket (quite literally, actually). The new cartridge

ones

Quoted message said:

are great, IMO. They are cheap and last much longer than the

maintenance

Quoted message said:

intervals of my old ones.

Whether the OP can find one to fit his old French bike is another

story.

Quoted message said:

Check with Sheldon Brown.

I'll agree with Mr. Johnson on this one. I replaced the old cup and
cone Tange bottom bracket in my loaded touring bike with a cheap
Shimano UN something recently for a couple reasons. 1. I was changing
frames/fork so I thought it would be nice to have a new bottom bracket.
2. Most important, I did not like adjusting the bottom bracket with
the 1 or 3 hooked lockring tool and cup pin tool. 3. On loaded tours
I will not have to carry the headset and lockring tools since the new
frame/fork has the cartridge bottom bracket and threadless headset. 4.
The under $20 cost was minimal.

"dan_s" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW) which
has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB is
probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with the
sugino type, as in here:
http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
is it worth doing the conversion?

thanks a bunch

Worth doing the conversion? If you old bottom bracket is not worn out, then
there is no purpose in doing this. Cartridge bottom brackets are heavier,
have higher drag, and cannot be serviced.

Besides, your existing BB is probably french-threaded. Cartridge BBs are
practically unavailable in french threading - I know: I have a 1972 Gitane.
If there is some wear, then it is likely in the ball bearings, or the
spindle. Cups rarely wear out.

I would pull the BB apart anyway. You only need to pull off the adjustable
(left-side) cup to do this. Replace the bearings regardless. These are
likely 1/4" standard-issue balls. If the spindle is pitted, then replace
it. Fortunately, French BB spindles are the same as English, so your
options are extensive.

If you do not feel comfortable doing this, off to the bike shop. If they
demonstrate any hesitation or uncertainty, then immediatly pack everything
up and off to the next shop. The last thing you want is a wrench that has
never worked on a French threaded BB and ends up stripping the frame
threads.

As always, seek out the mechanic with the grey hair.

Dave Mayer said:

Besides, your existing BB is probably french-threaded.

This is a problem.

Quoted message said:

Cartridge BBs are
practically unavailable in french threading - I know: I have a 1972 Gitane.
If there is some wear, then it is likely in the ball bearings, or the
spindle. Cups rarely wear out.

But cups do get damaged, by, for example, water getting in and rusting the
cups. Spindles also get damaged, and if either cup or spindle is damaged,
they will be nearly impossible to replace as well.

Quoted message said:

Fortunately, French BB spindles are the same as
English, so your options are extensive.

Oh -- that is good. There are still English spindles around.

Quoted message said:

As always, seek out the mechanic with the grey hair.

And, in this case, a French accent.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
_`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

Mark Hickey said:

Really the only advantage to a cartridge type BB is availability,
IMHO. They're somewhat heavier, and can't be maintained (so they'll
wear out quicker than the re-lubable, adjustable, rebuildable cup and
cone BB).

which you have to re-lube, adjust, and re-build regularly. My memories of
the old cup-and-cone bottom brackets are less pleasant than Mark's.
For me, the bottom bracket always seemed to require more maintenance
than anything else. Dirt, water, and crud seems to gravitate towards
the bottom bracket (quite literally, actually). The new cartridge ones
are great, IMO. They are cheap and last much longer than the maintenance
intervals of my old ones.

I guess it all depends on the cup-and-cone BB you were using. I rode
in a lot of wet conditions for many years with my own c-a-c BBs and
VERY seldom did any service. OTOH, when I initially installed them, I
positively slathered the insides with grease, which would help
mitigate the effects of any water or grit that DID get into the BB.

Bottom line is that all of us should consider ourselves lucky if we
ride enough to make BB wear an issue! ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame