Cell phones while riding

[H M Leary]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Road Man" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I like Dave's approach. One should have the cell phone on, because
> the built-in GPS will tell emergency services where you are. You
> could have an injury that prevents you from turning on the phone. But
> turning off the ringer can ensure non-technological privacy.
>
> Ken
>
snip

All cellphones now have the GPS feature, but NOT all towers have the
technology to triangleate.

In an emergency, if you are out cold, how are you going to dial 911 on
your cell???

HAND
Ride Safe

 

[Antti Salonen]

H M Leary <[email protected]> wrote:

> All cellphones now have the GPS feature, but NOT all towers have the
> technology to triangleate.

GPS is different from how mobile phone positioning usually works. GPS
uses about 30 satellites on the orbit and is very accurate, but very few
phones have a GPS receiver.

Cell phone positioning is usually done by measuring the distance of the
phone from at least three different stations. I don't think it requires
any special support from the handset, so it works with any phone. It's
not accurate at all, but can help on emergencies.

-as

 

[n5hsr]

"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gooserider wrote:
> :: "Ken C. M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> :: news:[email protected]...
> ::: [email protected] wrote:
> :::: Hi All,
> ::::
> :::: Around here in Norway cell-phone "market penetration" is about
> :::: 98%. On club rides it seems like it is 99.9%. I hate having a cell
> :::: phone on a ride. Part of riding is getting away. If I'm on a 5
> :::: hour ride, I'm on a 5 hour ride. What do I need to know that can't
> :::: wait til I'm finished? I only ever bring one when I am riding
> :::: alone on my MTB and my wife insists. She is concerened that I will
> :::: crash and succumb to hypothermia lying in the woods someplace.
> ::::
> :::: What's it like in other parts of the world? Does "everyone" on club
> :::: rides bring a phone? Do people answer calls while riding in a
> :::: group?
> ::::
> :::: Joseph
> ::::
> :::
> ::: As all my riding is done solo, to get away from it all, I do bring
> ::: my cell phone with me. If I get run off the road and am hurt, but
> ::: able to use the phone, in my opinion it may just save my life.
> :::
> :::
> :: I always carry one in case of an accident. I never use it while
> :: riding, and it's usually turned off.
>
> Ditto.
>

Sadly, I'm on call 24 x 7. Fortunately it's a small company, so the phone
doesn't go off very often, but the cell phone is expected to be on.

Charles of Schaumburg.

 

[recycled-one]

"Marz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> recycled-one wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > What's it like in other parts of the world? Does "everyone" on club
>> > rides bring a phone? Do people answer calls while riding in a group?
>>
>> I am in Canada and proud to be "the last person on earth without a cell
>> phone".
>
> Why?

Why I don't have a cell? Or why I'm proud of the fact?

Of the former: I _like_ not being reachable by phone. Of the latter: I find
the pervasiveness of cell phones tedious and therefore revel in being a
rebel.



> Do you have a telephone at home?

Yes.

> I'm guessing you have a computer
> at home,

Yes. In fact if I could find a notebook computer of exceptional ruggedness
at a reasonable price I would seriously consider taking one along on rides.

> or did you post your note by pigeon?

No.

> I guess we all have one
> thing from this high-speed-communication-information age we live in we
> may dislike, mine's voicemail, but I like text messages, go figure.

Bingo. I dislike test messaging as well as voicemail. The latter the variety
of corporate maze voicemails from hell. Simple answering machines are all
right and given telemarketing a useful screening tool.

 

[TomP]

I don't own a cell phone.

[email protected] wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Around here in Norway cell-phone "market penetration" is about 98%. On
> club rides it seems like it is 99.9%. I hate having a cell phone on a
> ride. Part of riding is getting away. If I'm on a 5 hour ride, I'm on a
> 5 hour ride. What do I need to know that can't wait til I'm finished? I
> only ever bring one when I am riding alone on my MTB and my wife
> insists. She is concerened that I will crash and succumb to hypothermia
> lying in the woods someplace.
>
> What's it like in other parts of the world? Does "everyone" on club
> rides bring a phone? Do people answer calls while riding in a group?
>
> Joseph

--
Tp,

-------- __o
----- -\<. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron...

 

[Claire Petersky]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Around here in Norway cell-phone "market penetration" is about 98%. On
> club rides it seems like it is 99.9%. I hate having a cell phone on a
> ride. Part of riding is getting away. If I'm on a 5 hour ride, I'm on a
> 5 hour ride. What do I need to know that can't wait til I'm finished?

The cell phone makes it much easier for my husband and I to go on a ride
together and leave our kids at home. We started a while back with taking the
cell and not going more than an hour's ride away from the house. Now, we
just freely go on rides with the knowledge that they can call if there's a
problem. I usually call them mid-way through the ride and remind them of the
chores they said they'd do while we were gone.

The other nice thing about a cell phone is that my husband worries less
about me on solo rides. He figures that I can call if something disasterous
happens.

For me, the cell phone is more a creator of freedom than enslavement.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Lou D'Amelio]

Like most replies here, I carry my cell for emergencies; I occasionally
have to carry one for work-related calls. For folks in the US, your
cell phone can be useful in an emergency even if you are too
incapacitated to dial. Most EMS agencies look for a number in your
directory under "ICE" - in case of emergency. Use this to list your
emergency contact info. Allergies and other pertinent medical history
can be entered in memo fields.
I am a trauma surgeon. We often are only able to contact families of
unconscious folks by the information garnered from their cell phones.

>From a cycling perspective, I agree that use of a cell phone on a group
ride is inappropriate and annoying.


Lou D'Amelio

 

[[email protected]]

Antti Salonen wrote:
> H M Leary <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > All cellphones now have the GPS feature, but NOT all towers have the
> > technology to triangleate.
>
> GPS is different from how mobile phone positioning usually works. GPS
> uses about 30 satellites on the orbit and is very accurate, but very few
> phones have a GPS receiver.
>
> Cell phone positioning is usually done by measuring the distance of the
> phone from at least three different stations. I don't think it requires
> any special support from the handset, so it works with any phone. It's
> not accurate at all, but can help on emergencies.

Any only works if the handset is turned on! To get a good fix you need
multiple stations, but even one will give an approximate location.

Joseph

 

[Bob]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Around here in Norway cell-phone "market penetration" is about 98%. On
> club rides it seems like it is 99.9%. I hate having a cell phone on a
> ride. Part of riding is getting away. If I'm on a 5 hour ride, I'm on a
> 5 hour ride. What do I need to know that can't wait til I'm finished? I
> only ever bring one when I am riding alone on my MTB and my wife
> insists. She is concerened that I will crash and succumb to hypothermia
> lying in the woods someplace.
>
> What's it like in other parts of the world? Does "everyone" on club
> rides bring a phone? Do people answer calls while riding in a group?
>
> Joseph

I don't know about "everyone" but the only time I don't have my cell
phone with me and on is when I'm at home and it's charging. It isn't a
matter of choice for me; I *must* be reachable. It's a work thing. If
the setting I'm in isn't appropriate to accept calls I just switch it
to a silent/vibrate mode. I know some people consider it rude to excuse
oneself to take a call but if they don't understand that an emergency
is an emergency, I don't want to associate with them anyway so we're
*both* happy.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

 

[[email protected]]

Road Man wrote:
> I like Dave's approach. One should have the cell phone on, because
> the built-in GPS will tell emergency services where you are. You
> could have an injury that prevents you from turning on the phone. But
> turning off the ringer can ensure non-technological privacy.
>

Because of the risk of emergency, and of being knocked unconscious,
there should have been no bicycling allowed until cell phones were
invented.

;-)


I don't own one. My wife does, for her job. When we ride, she almost
never carries it. When I ride alone, I never carry it.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On 2006-04-30, David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:02:12 -0700, joseph.santaniello wrote:
>
>> What's it like in other parts of the world? Does "everyone" on club
>> rides bring a phone? Do people answer calls while riding in a group?
>
> I always bring one, in case of some emergency. I keep the ringer off, so
> no, I don't (usually) answer the phone while riding.

My phone is usually pretty inaccessible while I'm *on* the bike, so I
can't actually answer while I'm riding. I wouldn't be able to ride &
talk at the same time, anyway, unless I were using a handsfree kit.
Even then, things would be a bit dicey.

I did, however, know a guy who could talk to me very calmly on his phone
while he was riding his bike quite fast in heavy traffic. I was always
a bit nervous (for his sake) whenever I took a call from him.

-Luigi

 

[Mike Kruger]

"Lou D'Amelio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Like most replies here, I carry my cell for emergencies; I occasionally
> have to carry one for work-related calls. For folks in the US, your
> cell phone can be useful in an emergency even if you are too
> incapacitated to dial. Most EMS agencies look for a number in your
> directory under "ICE" - in case of emergency. Use this to list your
> emergency contact info. Allergies and other pertinent medical history
> can be entered in memo fields.
> I am a trauma surgeon. We often are only able to contact families of
> unconscious folks by the information garnered from their cell phones.
>
Once I heard the ICE idea, I thought it made immediate sense. I've told
others about it, and discovered they were usually unaware of this campaign.
It's a nice thing to mention when the conversation hits a lull.

I hadn't thought to put allergy information in memo fields. I'm not allergic
to anything, but putting "no allergies" in a memo field can't hurt and might
help.

This campaign goes beyond the US. Here's a link from the UK, where the idea
originated.
http://www.eastanglianambulance.com/content/news/newsdetail.asp?newsID=646104183

 

[Dave Larrington]

In article <[email protected]>, recycled-one (u-
[email protected]) wrote:
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > What's it like in other parts of the world? Does "everyone" on club
> > rides bring a phone? Do people answer calls while riding in a group?
>
> I am in Canada and proud to be "the last person on earth without a cell
> phone".

My pals Mr. Middleton (New Toyland) and Ms. Infidel (Malmesbury) do not
have 'em either.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
My other motto is in Latin.

 

[Buck]

[email protected] wrote:
> Antti Salonen wrote:
> > H M Leary <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > All cellphones now have the GPS feature, but NOT all towers have the
> > > technology to triangleate.
> >
> > GPS is different from how mobile phone positioning usually works. GPS
> > uses about 30 satellites on the orbit and is very accurate, but very few
> > phones have a GPS receiver.
> >
> > Cell phone positioning is usually done by measuring the distance of the
> > phone from at least three different stations. I don't think it requires
> > any special support from the handset, so it works with any phone. It's
> > not accurate at all, but can help on emergencies.
>
> Any only works if the handset is turned on! To get a good fix you need
> multiple stations, but even one will give an approximate location.
>
> Joseph

Sure, it will give a distance from a single tower. But let's say that
distance is five miles. The area of a circle is piR^2 = (3.14)*(5)^2 =
78.5.

So, the search area to find your body is only 78.5 square miles. We
could narrow it down by looking near the roads you were most likely
riding - provided you let someone know your route and did not deviate.

The Arkansas Geographic Information Office did some testing on cell
phone with and without GPS to check for compliance with 911
regulations. Their error rate in Arkansas was non-compliant, but since
the laws specify error rates *for the entire network*, the phone
companies are circumventing the law by oversampling in areas where they
have greater coverage.

I don't have the paper in front of me, but at least one of the GPS
derived positions was 15 miles away from the true location and a
non-GPS derived position was over 18 miles from the true location.
Conversely, one of the GPS positions was within a few meters....

-Buck

 

[Specialized]

I use my cellpnone while riding to some extent, but I do not ride on
paved roads, so the odds of being run down by a bus while distracted
are pretty slim.
I use a hands-free headset, and assign different ringtones to the very
few people who have the number. In this way, I do not have to look at
the ID screen to know who is calling. My teenage nieces teases me,
saying, "You are such a *GIRL* with that cellphone!!!"
There ARE a couple of people (Other cyclists that I am trying to get
interested in this particular ride) whom I believe it is proper to
speak to, though they always seem to have some kind of perverted ESP,
knowing when I am going up the worst hill.
Maybe they just like 'Heavy Breathing" calls!
My phone is GPS equipped, and I am usually riding alone, often on
isolated trails, so I feel it is needed.
Last year, I was unknowingly coming down with some vile form of
bronchitis that seemed to be going around, and for a while I was
afraid they would find my bleached, gnawed bones in the Spring-So the
cellphone comes along!

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Tue, 02 May 2006 09:59:05 -0700, Buck wrote:

> Sure, it will give a distance from a single tower. But let's say that
> distance is five miles. The area of a circle is piR^2 = (3.14)*(5)^2 =
> 78.5.
>
> So, the search area to find your body is only 78.5 square miles.

This is hyperbole. If you know the distance from that tower, you do not
have to waste time searching in the middle of the circle. Technically you
have an area of 0 square miles to search, but in reality you would have
some error in measurement of the distance to the tower, so you'd have to
search a circular swath around the tower.

Given a distance from a second tower, and you are down to two points.


--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |

 

[Buck]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, 02 May 2006 09:59:05 -0700, Buck wrote:
>
> > Sure, it will give a distance from a single tower. But let's say that
> > distance is five miles. The area of a circle is piR^2 = (3.14)*(5)^2 =
> > 78.5.
> >
> > So, the search area to find your body is only 78.5 square miles.
>
> This is hyperbole. If you know the distance from that tower, you do not
> have to waste time searching in the middle of the circle. Technically you
> have an area of 0 square miles to search, but in reality you would have
> some error in measurement of the distance to the tower, so you'd have to
> search a circular swath around the tower.
>
> Given a distance from a second tower, and you are down to two points.

Ok, so you caught me exaggerating a bit.

But really, these things suffer from the same kinds of errors that GPS
does. A cell tower can identify which "face" is receiving the signal
and can compute an estimated distance, but the signal is not encoded
with a time stamp, so it is impossible to calculate an exact distance.
The range is within a few hundred meters at best, a few kilometers at
worst. So, really, we are looking at an arc that is approximately a
third of a circle, at best a hundred meters thick. The actual search
area depends on the true distance from the tower.

So, we would need to measure the area of the sector. Let's use a
distance error of 100 meters with the actual distance from the tower
being exactly 100 meters. The search distance would be 1/3 of a circle
with a radius of 200 meters. The search area would be
(120/360)*pi*(200)^2 = 41,868m^2 or approximately 10 acres. Move that
distance out a mile or two and the situation changes.

At two miles (~3,218m), the search area is ((120/360)*pi*(3,318)^2)) -
((120/360*pi*(3,118)^2) = 1,347,269m^2 or about 333 acres.

Multiple cell towers with overlapping ranges are found only in areas
with high populations or along major transportation routes. Rural areas
(like most of Arkansas) are serviced by a relatively low number of
barely overlapping towers. One reason I no longer have a cell phone is
that the signal was so poor at our house, it was unusable. We live less
than three miles away from the city limit along a state highway.

While many folks around here are commuters, many of us also ride rural
routes - the area where cell coverage is spotty at best. Add in a few
hills or heavy tree cover and the problem is exacerbated. If the ride
includes singletrack, then don't have any illusions about your cell
phone guiding your rescuers to your location.

Keep in mind the test I referred to - up to 18 miles positional error
when using cell tower systems, 15 miles positional error using GPS.

While I was
-Buck