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Central Hatching - Good or Bad?

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UK and Europe
Published
4 June 2007
Last activity
6 June 2007
Original author
cylinginhants
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  1. Hi,

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a
    B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)

    I've done some investigation into the pros and cons of such a scheme of
    similar design and circumstances through the web and talking to people,
    but I thought I would get some feedback from this group, prior to making
    any submission.

    Detail:
    B2150 between Denmead and Waterlooville, central line replace by central
    hatching, leaving a lane width of about 3m (I measured 3.04m in one
    location). As far as I can establish no cycling groups were involved
    with the decision making process.

    I've posted a couple of photographs on the following URL:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8751558@N08/

    Any comments?

    Thanks,

    Mark.

  2. cylinginhants said:

    Hi,

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a
    B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)

    I've done some investigation into the pros and cons of such a scheme of
    similar design and circumstances through the web and talking to people,
    but I thought I would get some feedback from this group, prior to making
    any submission.

    Detail:
    B2150 between Denmead and Waterlooville, central line replace by central
    hatching, leaving a lane width of about 3m (I measured 3.04m in one
    location). As far as I can establish no cycling groups were involved
    with the decision making process.

    I've posted a couple of photographs on the following URL:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8751558@N08/

    Any comments?

    Bit difficult to tell, without knowing what was causing the accidents...

    --
    Mike
    Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
    Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
    Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

  3. cylinginhants said:

    Hi,

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a
    B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)

    I've done some investigation into the pros and cons of such a scheme of
    similar design and circumstances through the web and talking to people,
    but I thought I would get some feedback from this group, prior to making
    any submission.

    Detail:
    B2150 between Denmead and Waterlooville, central line replace by central
    hatching, leaving a lane width of about 3m (I measured 3.04m in one
    location). As far as I can establish no cycling groups were involved
    with the decision making process.

    I've posted a couple of photographs on the following URL:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8751558@N08/

    Any comments?

    Thanks,

    Mark.

    The idea seems to be that drivers won’t stray into the hatching so
    making the road seem narrower, causing them to slow down. My own
    experience, where I have a section like this on my cycle commute, is
    that it just causes motor vehicles to pass closer than they do where
    there is no hatching. I suspect that many drivers think they could be
    guilty of an offence if they entered the hatching so they would rather
    risk hitting me. IMO a thoroughly bad idea.

    JonMcD

  4. In message <[email hidden]>, JonMcD <[email hidden]>
    writes

    Quoted message said:
    cylinginhants said:

    Hi,
    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch
    of a B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central
    hatching scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)
    I've done some investigation into the pros and cons of such a scheme
    of similar design and circumstances through the web and talking to
    people, but I thought I would get some feedback from this group,
    prior to making any submission.
    Detail:
    B2150 between Denmead and Waterlooville, central line replace by
    central hatching, leaving a lane width of about 3m (I measured 3.04m
    in one location). As far as I can establish no cycling groups were
    involved with the decision making process.
    I've posted a couple of photographs on the following URL:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8751558@N08/
    Any comments?
    Thanks,
    Mark.

    The idea seems to be that drivers won’t stray into the hatching so
    making the road seem narrower, causing them to slow down. My own
    experience, where I have a section like this on my cycle commute, is
    that it just causes motor vehicles to pass closer than they do where
    there is no hatching. I suspect that many drivers think they could be
    guilty of an offence if they entered the hatching so they would rather
    risk hitting me. IMO a thoroughly bad idea.


    My exact experience when the local B road down into town was hatched to
    "narrow the lanes". (40 zone). Some drivers seem very reluctant to
    enter the hatch area and pass much closer than they otherwise might
    have.

    --
    steve

  5. "cylinginhants" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a B
    road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)

    I've done some investigation into the pros and cons of such a scheme of
    similar design and circumstances through the web and talking to people,
    but I thought I would get some feedback from this group, prior to making
    any submission.

    Detail:
    B2150 between Denmead and Waterlooville, central line replace by central
    hatching, leaving a lane width of about 3m (I measured 3.04m in one
    location). As far as I can establish no cycling groups were involved with
    the decision making process.

    I've posted a couple of photographs on the following URL:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8751558@N08/

    I'm not really a great fan of unnecessary road marking, but on a narrower
    road the hatching could keep traffic nearer the edge so that overtaking
    traffic can pass with more overtaking room.

  6. "Steven Briggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The idea seems to be that drivers won't stray into the hatching so making
    the road seem narrower, causing them to slow down. My own experience,
    where I have a section like this on my cycle commute, is that it just
    causes motor vehicles to pass closer than they do where there is no
    hatching. I suspect that many drivers think they could be guilty of an
    offence if they entered the hatching so they would rather risk hitting me.
    IMO a thoroughly bad idea.


    My exact experience when the local B road down into town was hatched to
    "narrow the lanes". (40 zone). Some drivers seem very reluctant to enter
    the hatch area and pass much closer than they otherwise might have.

    Same here, although it keeps traffic coming the other way over to the side
    so it should be easier for a car to overtake and give you plenty of room.
    Motorcycles find them quite good places for overtaking slow moving traffic
    though.
    --
    peter

    Cheap train tickets database
    http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

    Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
    Visit website if you want to contact me

  7. cylinginhants said:

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a
    B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)

    I've done some investigation into the pros and cons of such a scheme of
    similar design and circumstances through the web and talking to people,
    but I thought I would get some feedback from this group, prior to making
    any submission.

    Detail:
    B2150 between Denmead and Waterlooville, central line replace by central
    hatching, leaving a lane width of about 3m (I measured 3.04m in one
    location). As far as I can establish no cycling groups were involved
    with the decision making process.

    First, the hatching needs to be at least 1.5m wide, so that drivers
    can pass cyclists with enough space if they drive on it.

    Second, it must not have any islands in it, as they will stop drivers
    going into the hatching, or make them cut in.

    After that, it depends - but I'm not sure what on. Here in London
    drivers seem to be happy to drive on hatching to pass cyclists. That
    could be cultural, or because speeds are low, or because sightlines
    are good, or for some other reason.

    The effect we want is of a suicide lane which can only (and only needs
    to) be used for passing cyclists. This may work better where the odds
    of simultaneous overtaking of cyclists in both directions are low.

    An alternative approach, whioh may be better where cycle flows are
    high, is wide cycle lanes but no centre line.

    I suspect the best approach, though, is a 9 metre-wide road, with no
    obstructions and strict enforcement of whatever speed limit is set.

    Cycling is comfortable when
    - drivers don't overtake
    or
    - drivers can easily overtake with sufficient clearance

    Colin McKenzie

    --
    No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
    the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
    walking.
    Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

  8. cylinginhants said:

    Hi,

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a
    B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)

    IMHO this should improve things if drivers know what the hatching means,
    and how to use it. If drivers do not know what the hatching means then
    many will try overtaking without using it.

    I have been shouted and honked at by a bus driver for turning right
    across hatching before now (he said it was illegal).

    Martin.

  9. "JonMcD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    cylinginhants said:

    Hi,

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a B
    road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)

    I've done some investigation into the pros and cons of such a scheme of
    similar design and circumstances through the web and talking to people,
    but I thought I would get some feedback from this group, prior to making
    any submission.

    Detail:
    B2150 between Denmead and Waterlooville, central line replace by central
    hatching, leaving a lane width of about 3m (I measured 3.04m in one
    location). As far as I can establish no cycling groups were involved with
    the decision making process.

    I've posted a couple of photographs on the following URL:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8751558@N08/

    Any comments?

    Thanks,

    Mark.

    The idea seems to be that drivers won’t stray into the hatching so making
    the road seem narrower, causing them to slow down. My own experience,
    where I have a section like this on my cycle commute, is that it just
    causes motor vehicles to pass closer than they do where there is no
    hatching. I suspect that many drivers think they could be guilty of an
    offence if they entered the hatching so they would rather risk hitting me.
    IMO a thoroughly bad idea.

    JonMcD

    My experience exactly. Rolling between Conisborough and Doncaster.
    It actually seems that drivers are scared of entering the hatch, so I have
    to hold my elbows in. It really is noticeable compared to regularly lined
    roads.

    Nigel

  10. cylinginhants said:

    Hi,

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a
    B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)


    Central hatching *is not legal* (it doesn't conform to the road traffic
    markings regulations) _unless_ it is in conjunction with traffic islands.

    So ask the CC for the "diagram" to which these are implemented.

    (Sorry I have to go to bed now and don't have the exact reference but
    searching for traffic, signs and "diagram 1040" will get you there.)

    --
    Peter Fox [2 Tees Close, Witham, CM8 1LG (Tel: Braintree 517206)]

  11. Nigel wrote on 05/06/2007 00:03 +0100:

    Quoted message said:

    "JonMcD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The idea seems to be that drivers won’t stray into the hatching so making
    the road seem narrower, causing them to slow down. My own experience,
    where I have a section like this on my cycle commute, is that it just
    causes motor vehicles to pass closer than they do where there is no
    hatching. I suspect that many drivers think they could be guilty of an
    offence if they entered the hatching so they would rather risk hitting me.
    IMO a thoroughly bad idea.

    JonMcD

    My experience exactly. Rolling between Conisborough and Doncaster.
    It actually seems that drivers are scared of entering the hatch, so I have
    to hold my elbows in. It really is noticeable compared to regularly lined
    roads.

    If you are being passed in a 3m wide lane without the car entering the
    hatching then you are riding too close to the gutter. You should be at
    least out as far as the inside wheel track of cars so that they have to
    go into the hatching to overtake or else wait behind.

    --
    Tony

    "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
    is no good evidence either way."
    - Bertrand Russell

  12. Peter Fox said:
    cylinginhants said:

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of
    a B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central
    hatching scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)


    Central hatching *is not legal* (it doesn't conform to the road traffic
    markings regulations) _unless_ it is in conjunction with traffic islands.

    Bloody typical. In that case it is a Bad Thing. You need 4.5m clear
    either side of any islands to avoid creating pinch-points.

    Colin McKenzie

  13. Peter Fox said:
    cylinginhants said:

    Hi,

    Due to number of fatalities including cyclists, on a short stretch of a
    B road, my County Council have recently implemented a central hatching
    scheme along it (about a half a mile or so.)


    Central hatching *is not legal* (it doesn't conform to the road traffic
    markings regulations) _unless_ it is in conjunction with traffic islands.

    Not even if the central hatching is used to create right filters? I ask
    as this is what we have on the main road near my house. In my uninformed
    opinion, this arrangement allows cyclists and other road users to travel
    at low speed and still be able to safely turn right.

    Quoted message said:


    So ask the CC for the "diagram" to which these are implemented.

    (Sorry I have to go to bed now and don't have the exact reference but
    searching for traffic, signs and "diagram 1040" will get you there.)

    Is this the one? <http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/023113bt.gif> linked
    from <http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm>

    Cheers,
    Luke

    --
    Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
    exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

  14. Ekul Namsob said:

    Not even if the central hatching is used to create right filters? I ask
    as this is what we have on the main road near my house. In my uninformed
    opinion, this arrangement allows cyclists and other road users to travel
    at low speed and still be able to safely turn right.

    Quoted message said:

    Is this the one? <http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/023113bt.gif> linked
    from <http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm>

    Those diagrams look familiar. Purely on their own they don't conform to
    the rules. For filters (as per diags) then OK.

    --
    Peter Fox [2 Tees Close, Witham, CM8 1LG (Tel: Braintree 517206)]


  15. Quoted message said:

    Motorcycles find them quite good places for overtaking slow moving traffic
    though.

    Oh! I thought that's what the hatched areas were, motorbike lanes with
    a mandatory 40mph minimum speed.

    TerryJ

  16. In news:[email hidden],
    naked_draughtsman <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to
    tell us:

    Quoted message said:

    Same here, although it keeps traffic coming the other way over to the
    side so it should be easier for a car to overtake and give you plenty
    of room. Motorcycles find them quite good places for overtaking slow
    moving traffic though.

    My grate frend Uncle Marvo, however, once got nicked for doing this aboard
    The Mighty KAWASAKI. ISTR that the Clerk of the Court was also a biker and
    Unc got off without a stain on his character...

    --
    Dave Larrington
    <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
    My other motto is in Latin.

  17. Peter Fox <[email hidden]> wrote in news:f42bl2$iev$1$8300dec7
    @news.demon.co.uk:

    Quoted message said:

    Central hatching *is not legal* (it doesn't conform to the road traffic
    markings regulations) _unless_ it is in conjunction with traffic islands.

    So ask the CC for the "diagram" to which these are implemented.

    (Sorry I have to go to bed now and don't have the exact reference but
    searching for traffic, signs and "diagram 1040" will get you there.)

    AFAICT it is legit and exactly as shown in diagram 1040.2
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bt.gif

    --
    Geoff

  18. Tony Raven <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    If you are being passed in a 3m wide lane without the car entering the
    hatching then you are riding too close to the gutter. You should be at
    least out as far as the inside wheel track of cars so that they have to
    go into the hatching to overtake or else wait behind.

    My thoughts exactly. IMO the hatches improve things *because* it's
    impossible for a car to overtake a cyclist who is riding in the secondary
    position without the car encroaching into the hatches. Drivers are thus
    more likely to make a positive overtake giving the cyclist more room rather
    than trying to squeeze by without crossing the central line as they'd do
    without the hatches.

    --
    Geoff

  19. cylinginhants wrote:

    Many thanks for the replies; it has been most useful.

    Mark.

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