Quoted message said:Indeed, there are problems with Mike's claim. First, it's simply
unprovable because there are no inventories or records, bikes not having
titles or license plates like cars there's no way to trace them.
Second, in the US 50 years ago most bikes were basically built for
children from welded mild steel and have long since been discarded due
to non-use; that means there's not that much of a selection of 50 years
old brazed US-made frames to begin with. Third, even most of the brazed
frames were long ago discarded due to non-use. Neither the second or
third groups failed in large numbers, they were just thrown away. Few
Americans have been riding regularly for 50 years, let alone riding
regularly for 50 years on the same bike.
OK, we could bring it back quite a few years then, and talk about bikes from
the 70s. Of that I have a great amount of first-hand experience. Of the many
thousands that I sold during the 70s, I would say a greater number than
people here are prepared to believe "failed" in use. That "use" typically
constituted running into thing and bending forks back and buckling
downtubes. Of the bikes coming into the shop for repair, a very large number
exhibited that sort of damage. It's my opinion that, used long enough, most
steel bikes would have fallen victim to that fate. For what it's worth, I
have personal experience with two different steel bikes that did so. I have
experience with one failure on a modern carbon frame & fork; that was when a
car backed out into me and I landed on the rear hood. The steel fork column
bent; everything else remained intact. The frame continues on to this day
(many years later). The fork was retired due to the bent column.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:In article <[email hidden]>,
_ said:Mike Jacoubowsky said:> Perhaps it is becuase these plastic frames are not old enough (or
> break before from other causes) for such failures to show up.
> Brazed steel frames have been around for at least a century - not
> the method, but the actual frames.
I'll go out on a limb here, and claim that there are far fewer
brazed steel frames more than even a mere 50 years old, intact,
than there are such frames that have failed. Does that mean that,
because the evidence is that most failed, steel is a bad material
to build a frame out of? I don't think so, but...
Careful now, claims without evidence are jim beam's territory...
Indeed, there are problems with Mike's claim. First, it's simply
unprovable because there are no inventories or records, bikes not having
titles or license plates like cars there's no way to trace them.
Second, in the US 50 years ago most bikes were basically built for
children from welded mild steel and have long since been discarded due
to non-use; that means there's not that much of a selection of 50 years
old brazed US-made frames to begin with. Third, even most of the brazed
frames were long ago discarded due to non-use. Neither the second or
third groups failed in large numbers, they were just thrown away. Few
Americans have been riding regularly for 50 years, let alone riding
regularly for 50 years on the same bike.
I remember a few years ago someone at the CTC published the question
"does anybody have a 50 year old bike in daily use" and got hundreds of
replies and photos from their members, some of whose daily riders were
60+ years old which were hand-me-downs from their parents or other older
relatives. I remember a lovely RRA from the first couple of years of
production that was still being ridden thousands of miles a year. The
CTC magazine editor asked people to stop sending in pictures of their
bikes because it was overwhelming.
Locally, riding around town and casually observing, I'd say that fully
half the bikes I see are 25-30 years old. This has increased over the
past five years or so quite dramatically.
