Chain Lube

Mark South said:

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

... But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more
solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as the
day they came out of the box :-)

So build a bike that's not for riding.

As a bonus, the tyres will stay clean, the bar tape will
be pristine, and the pedals won't get any scratches from
the cleats.

as always, "in medio stat virtus". There are many choices
between a clean-as-never-ridden bike and a black dirty
chain that turns to black everything it touches (after a
winter without "serious cleaning" my chain tends to become
like that)

"Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"

may have said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

snip

Quoted message said:

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive ways to maintain their chain, that
seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed into
the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

It's like religion... some people need to put their faith in
something that can't be prooved...

Either that or the lube vendors have been able to convince
enough people to live in fear ... I'm waiting for "If you
don't use miraculube Al_quaida wins!"

"Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message The part I find strange about all these chain
maintenance threads is that

the

Quoted message said:

simplest advice given is to wipe the chain with a rag,
dribble a little

oil on

Quoted message said:

it, wipe off the excess, and repeat as necessary. Then
when the chain

shows

Quoted message said:

wear, replace it.

This advice is simple to follow, cheap, and meshes with
the manufacturer's recommendations. There is no evidence
that chain life is worse than if

one

Quoted message said:

cleans the chain every 15 miles and uses some magical
chain lube that

costs 25$

Quoted message said:

an ounce. (I'm tempted to suggest it might be better,
since once the manufacturer's lube is gone or contaminated
there is practically no way to replace it.)

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more
solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the excess
manufacturer's lube and then rides the chain until it's
worn. They seem to last long enough that way. And chains are
pretty cheap. About once a year, I buy a dozen Dura-ace on
sale at Performance for about $13 each ($19 - 20% coupon -
10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it seems like a
better deal that mucking around with nasty solvents &etc.

- Jens

Quoted message said:

If you can get 2000 miles of quiet smooth shifting out of a
chain by just spraying it out and wiping it down you really
have nothing to complain about though.

If I were only getting 2000 miles of riding out of a chain
I'd be complaining bitterly! :-(

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

Jens Kurt Heycke said:

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the
excess manufacturer's lube and then rides the chain until
it's worn. They seem to last long enough that way. And
chains are pretty cheap. About once a year, I buy a dozen
Dura-ace on sale at Performance for about $13 each ($19 -
20% coupon - 10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it
seems like a better deal that mucking around with nasty
solvents &etc.

One a month?! What kind of mileage do you do?

Art Harris

Jens Kurt Heycke said:

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the
excess manufacturer's lube and then rides the chain until
it's worn. They seem to last long enough that way. And
chains are pretty cheap. About once a year, I buy a dozen
Dura-ace on sale at Performance for about $13 each ($19 -
20% coupon - 10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it
seems like a better deal that mucking around with nasty
solvents &etc.

How utterly wasteful. Even my mountain bike chains last well
over a year.

Bill "regimen is a rag and White Lightning" S.

"Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jens Kurt Heycke

Quoted message said:

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the
excess

manufacturer's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lube and then rides the chain until it's worn. They
seem to last long enough that way. And chains are
pretty cheap. About once a year, I buy a dozen Dura-ace
on sale at Performance for about $13 each ($19 - 20%
coupon - 10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it
seems like a better deal that mucking around with nasty
solvents &etc.

One a month?! What kind of mileage do you do?

Art Harris

I don't use one a month. That's an extreme example, just to
make the point. It's more like one every 2-3 months, which
equates to about 2400 miles.

--j

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as
the day they came out of the box :-)

So build a bike that's not for riding.

As a bonus, the tyres will stay clean, the bar tape will
be pristine, and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pedals won't get any scratches from the cleats.

as always, "in medio stat virtus". There are many choices
between a clean-as-never-ridden bike and a black dirty
chain that turns to black everything it touches (after a
winter without "serious cleaning" my chain tends to become
like that).

I disagree. Virtue may stand in the middle, but facts are
often on one side or the other.

Either you use the bike or not. If you use it the chain will
wear and produce dirty black metallic particles.
Unavoidable. To keep it clean you will have to spend a lot
of time (that could be spent riding) and money (that could
buy regular new chains).

So the question stands, why?
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

"ajames54" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"
<[email hidden]> may have said:

>"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>message
>"]news:[email hidden]...

snip

Quoted message said:

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots
more solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

It's like religion... some people need to put their faith
in something that can't be prooved...

On alt.religion.bikechains.cleaning, that's a good answer.
On rec.bikes.TECH, it suffices not.

Quoted message said:

Either that or the lube vendors have been able to convince
enough people to live in fear ... I'm waiting for "If you
don't use miraculube Al_quaida wins!"

Well if they win, we'll need to live with belt drive
because there won't be any petroleum based lubricants of
any kind for us.

So how best to keep my belt drive clean?
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the
excess manufacturer's lube and then rides the chain until
it's worn. They seem to last long enough that way. And
chains are pretty cheap. About once a year, I buy a dozen
Dura-ace on sale at Performance for about $13 each ($19 -
20% coupon - 10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it
seems like a better deal that mucking around with nasty
solvents &etc.

No, you're not alone, except that it seems to me that the $5
SRAM chains are about as good as anything else. But the rest
of your logic seems ironclad to
me.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

If you want a clean chain, you must clean it often. I use a quick link to make things easier. the chain gets a dunking in low odor paint thinner which is recycled by decanting the sediment away. If I feel the need for a cleaner chain, I will run it through an ultrasonic bath in a Rubbermaid-type container. It only takes a few minutes and the innards of the chain are spotless. I have cleaned a chain in just thinner, then hit it with a sonicator, getting even more dirt off of it than with thinner alone.

I lube the chain OFF the bike with WL. Never do I have the dreaded buildup on jockey wheels or chainrings. And never do I have chain dirt issues because WL wipes off...

John Everett said:

Quoted message said:

If you can get 2000 miles of quiet smooth shifting out of
a chain by just spraying it out and wiping it down you
really have nothing to complain about though.

If I were only getting 2000 miles of riding out of a chain
I'd be complaining bitterly! :-(

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

I replaced a good KMC chain with an econo chain at 2000
miles. After comparing the length of the two chains I saw
that the KMC chain had only stretched about a 32nd of an
inch. Be nice if I could get three chains worth of wear out
of the freewheel. Rotating three chains at 2000 mile
intervals should minimise cog wear and at 6000 miles putting
the old KMC chain back on will not accelerate wear that
much. I will need new chain rings in a year or two anyways.

"Weisse Luft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you want a clean chain, you must clean it often. I use
a quick link to make things easier. the chain gets a
dunking in low odor paint thinner which is recycled by
decanting the sediment away. If I feel the need for a
cleaner chain, I will run it through an ultrasonic bath in
a Rubbermaid-type container. It only takes a few minutes
and the innards of the chain are spotless. I have cleaned
a chain in just thinner, then hit it with a sonicator,
getting even more dirt off of it than with thinner alone.

I'm exhausted just reading this.

If you do this for your chain, how much time do you spend
on your brakes? After all, your life depnds on those at
times, right?

Quoted message said:

I lube the chain OFF the bike with WL. Never do I have the
dreaded buildup on jockey wheels or chainrings. And never
do I have chain dirt issues because WL wipes off...

You haven't said how you can be sure that you've got
lubrication right inside the chain rollers.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Everett said:

Quoted message said:

If you can get 2000 miles of quiet smooth shifting out
of a chain by

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spraying it out and wiping it down you really have
nothing to complain about though.

If I were only getting 2000 miles of riding out of a
chain I'd be complaining bitterly! :-(

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

I replaced a good KMC chain with an econo chain at 2000
miles. After comparing the length of the two chains I saw
that the KMC chain had only stretched about a 32nd of an
inch. Be nice if I could get three chains worth of wear
out of the freewheel. Rotating three chains at 2000 mile
intervals should minimise cog wear and at 6000 miles
putting the old KMC chain back on will not accelerate wear
that much. I will need new chain rings in a year or two
anyways.

I bought a KMC "stretchproof" Z chain last year. (I looked
at the guy in my LBS incredulously as he recited the
marketing ploy, but figured I would support them with my
$20) After 5000 road miles it has stretched less than a
32nd of an inch. Is anyone else getting similar results? I
often go more than 2 weeks (4 rides/wk) without oiling.
I've taken it off once to soak in solvent and then in
multipurpose 3-in-one oil.

--Art

Art M. said:

I bought a KMC "stretchproof" Z chain last year. (I looked
at the guy in my LBS incredulously as he recited the
marketing ploy, but figured I would support them with my
$20) After 5000 road miles it has stretched less than a
32nd of an inch. Is anyone else getting similar results? I
often go more than 2 weeks (4 rides/wk) without oiling.
I've taken it off once to soak in solvent and then in
multipurpose 3-in-one oil.

Does it have full bushings?

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in
cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way
obstructed interstate commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Weisse Luft said:

If you want a clean chain, you must clean it often. I use
a quick link to make things easier. the chain gets a
dunking in low odor paint thinner which is recycled by
decanting the sediment away. If I feel the need for a
cleaner chain, I will run it through an ultrasonic bath in
a Rubbermaid-type container. It only takes a few minutes
and the innards of the chain are spotless.

Quoted message said:

I have cleaned a chain in just thinner, then hit it with a
sonicator, getting even more dirt off of it than with
thinner alone.

Ultrasonic cleaning is definately the way to go for chains.
Do you have a unit that can be dropped into any container?
That would sure be handy.

The tiny units for jewelry, dentures, etc., are very
inexpensive, but too small for a chain, and the next size up
costs hundreds of dollars. I had a small industrial one that
would normally sell for several hundred dollars, that I got
at a garage sale for $25. It worked like a charm for several
years, but I got rid of it when I moved. Shoulda kept it...

I don't understand why I don't see more of these in bike
shops. They're so much faster and more effective than the
usual parts washers -- they'd speed up the workflow
considerably.

Matt O.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Matt O'Toole
Weisse Luft wrote:

...
The tiny units for jewelry, dentures, etc., are very
inexpensive, but too small for a chain, and the next size up
costs hundreds of dollars. I had a small industrial one that
would normally sell for several hundred dollars, that I got
at a garage sale for $25. It worked like a charm for several
years, but I got rid of it when I moved. Shoulda kept it...

I don't understand why I don't see more of these in bike
shops. They're so much faster and more effective than the
usual parts washers -- they'd speed up the workflow
considerably.

Matt O.

I put the chain in the Rubbermaid container along with some clean solvent and take it to work...the sonicator is a Bransonic that is always filled with clean water. Parts are cleaned the same way...parts are in a plastic container with solvent which is then floated on the surface of the water. 5 minutes is more than enough.

Why shops don't use them? Because the pro mechanics don't.

If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing
that chain unless you put a high strength replacement pin in
to replace the one you removed. Existing pins have a peaned
end and removing and replacing will weaken the end of the
pin and may cause you to break the chain. I speak from
experience. By using a thinner or petrol solvent bath, you
are washing away all the existing internal lubricant from
the chain rollers and can cause rust to start and thusly
also weakening the chain..

Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line
chain cleaner gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well
without completely stripping the chain. You don't need to
be cleaning it that much!!! Then generously recoat the
chain with chain lube, wipe excess off, clean and oil the
jockey wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take more than
10 minutes.

Chris 2200 Trek

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Chris H
If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing
that chain unless you put a high strength replacement pin in
to replace the one you removed. Existing pins have a peaned
end and removing and replacing will weaken the end of the
pin and may cause you to break the chain. I speak from
experience. By using a thinner or petrol solvent bath, you
are washing away all the existing internal lubricant from
the chain rollers and can cause rust to start and thusly
also weakening the chain..

Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line
chain cleaner gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well
without completely stripping the chain. You don't need to
be cleaning it that much!!! Then generously recoat the
chain with chain lube, wipe excess off, clean and oil the
jockey wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take more than
10 minutes.

Chris 2200 Trek

The replacement pin is no higher strength, it has larger diameters on the ends to keep it secured to the side plates. Original pine are rivited in, driving them out swages the holes larger.

If you followed my thread, you would see I use a quick link...I think its a Wipperman but there are many others out there.

One thing I didn't post is I use a drop of thread locker on the connection to assure it stays in place. Its removed easily but offers a bit more security.

Chris H said:

If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be
removing that chain unless you put a high strength
replacement pin in to replace the one you removed.
Existing pins have a peaned end and removing and replacing
will weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to break
the chain. I speak from experience. By using a thinner or
petrol solvent bath, you are washing away all the existing
internal lubricant from the chain rollers and can cause
rust to start and thusly also weakening the chain..

Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line
chain cleaner gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well
without completely stripping the chain. You don't need to
be cleaning it that much!!! Then generously recoat the
chain with chain lube, wipe excess off, clean and oil the
jockey wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take more than
10 minutes.

Chris 2200 Trek

Or spend under five bucks and get a SRAM powerlink (or
similar product from another manufacturer) and remove the
chain as often as your obsessive compulsive tendencies
compel you to do so. Or just don't clean it, keep it lubed,
and replace it when the time comes.

Tom