Chain Lube

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:tf%wc.17382$Sw.8362@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ?

I'm in favour of it.

Quoted message said:

I use White Lighting

There's your problem right there.

Quoted message said:

and it turns black before I even ride. (And Yes the chain
is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone make a lube
that stays clean for a few days.

As soon as they make metal that doesn't wear, we'll get the
lube that stays clean.

Quoted message said:

I don't want to use motor oil.

Well naturally, that's for motors. You are the motor.

Quoted message said:

Any other suggestions ?

Use bicycle chain oil or chainsaw oil. Wipe the outside of
your chain clean regularly. Don't look down at the chain,
keep your eyes on the road.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride. (And Yes the chain is
removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone make a lube that
stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

I've been using Progold ProLink and Rock'n'Roll Extreme.
Pretty clean, lasts, minimal chain wear. ProLink is cleaner
than R'n'R but doesn't hold up in the rain as well as R'n'R.

Used Triflo for years with good results. Just wipe down the
chain after most rides.

Others here use all sorts of lubes and get good results.
Sometimes I think that other than people like me who buy
magic snake oil, most of it comes down to basic maintenance.
I do complete cleanings every 2-400 miles no matter what lube-
remove chain, flush out, etc.

In article <tf%wc.17382$Sw.8362@attbi_s51>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride. (And Yes the chain is
removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone make a lube that
stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

10w30 motor oil. Cheap, about $1/quart, and easy to get.
Clean your chain. Then put a drop on each link. Wait, then
wipe off the excess. If you want use mobil 1 synthetic, but
it will cost you closer to $5/quart. I wonder why you don't
want to use motor oil? It is a better lubricant than most
other stuff that costs ridiculously more money.
--------------
Alex

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride. (And Yes the chain is
removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone make a lube that
stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

This has been discussed to death. Chain lube is essentially
a Religious Topic in this group.

These are my personal conclusions and experiences:

-- No oil-based lube will remain "clean".

-- No non-oil-based lube keeps the chain from getting noisy
after a wet ride, and most must be applied daly in order to
do anything at all. [1]

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise stripping
the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life; following
the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a
Good Idea.

-- Paying more for expensive lubes does not appear to
provide any real benefit vs. motor oil or gear lube. (Gear
lube, however, stinks badly enough to cause your SO to
banish your bike (or you *and* the bike) to the outdoors
while the perfidy of perpetrating such a stench is
contemplated, and its effects are savored.)

-- Mechanic's engine assembly lube, consisting of a half-and-
half mix of an oil thickener like STP and regular motor
oil, seems to work well as a chain lube for me, and it's
dirt cheap by comparison to any name-brand bike chain
lube product.

-- You will probably get wildly varying opinions about all
of the above observations, many of them quite vehement.

-- Your mileage may vary. I recommend only that you go with
what works for you, as it has become obvious to me that the
main purpose of the chain lube rituals performed by many is
to make them happy about what they are doing for their
chain. If you're getting good results from using chicken
skimmings mixed with powdered banana peel, far be it from
me to say that you must cease doing so.

[1] One observation about dry lube materials; for many
years, DuPont's engineers resolutely denied that
powdered Teflon had any value as a spot lube or a lube
component in the vast majority of applications, in
particular having zero value as an additive to motor
oil. Several years ago, however, it is apparent that
DuPont's marketing people told those engineers to STFU
and let the company grab some of the retail money from
products that they could be selling in competition with
the mechano-quackery producers like Slick50. I tend to
think, based on having talked to a few of those
engineers before the marketing folks got the upper
hand, that the "it's worthless in these applications"
advice is the correct information. Reports from users
of chain lubes containing Teflon or other PTFE
compounds seem to leave plenty of room to conclude that
the PTFE does nothing when applied to a bike chain.
Regardless of that, however, I still say that you
should go with what works for you; if that's something
containing Teflon, you are free to ignore the
observation immediately preceding.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:02:26 +0200, "Mark South"

may have said:

... Wipe the outside of your chain clean regularly. Don't
look down at the chain, keep your eyes on the road.

That last bit of advice may be the best of all, in my
opinion.

(I will observe that SRAM specifically recommends motor oil
for their chains, and otherwise advises the same procedure
that you do.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

<< Any other suggestions ? >>

My favorite chain lube is PG2000 Metal Protectant, available
from Branford Bike:

branfordbike.combcare5.htmlOpen ↗

This is a "dry" lube, so it doesn't pick up dirt, or make a
mess if you touch the chain. It holds up extremely well in
the wet, and lasts for many hundreds of miles before you
need to reapply it. The aerosol spray penetrates the chain
quickly and effectively. A 12-oz. aerosol can goes a long
way. Because it bonds to the metal, is necessary clean the
chain completely before the initial application. Do this by
shaking the chain in a discarded plastic soda bottle half-
filled with lacquer thinner, then air-drying it. Install the
chain, apply the lube, and allow it to dry for a few hours
before riding.

Larry said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride. (And Yes the chain is
removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone make a lube that
stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

I use "Pedros Extra Dry" both on my roadbike and my MTB My
MTB chain is dry, clean and shining. My roadbike chain is
black, oily and yechy.

I treat both chains the same. Ie I clean them often (
several times a year). Apply the lube spin the cranks, dry
off the excess. Next day if there is anything wet I dry it
off again. There is only one difference in how I maintain
them. The roadbikechain is Dura-Ace and I clean it with one
of those baths and brushes you clamp around it and pedal the
cranks backwards, filled with degreaser. The MTB chain is
SRAM and I open the Masterlink, put the chain in a
cokebottle, fill with the same degreaser and shake.

I have two theorys why the roadbike chain is always black.
Possibly a combination of them
1. It doesn't get clean enough since I clean it on the bike
and the wax doesn't get a chance to penetrate all the way
down to the metal. Instead it mixes out with what's left
of the degreaser and stays forever wet.
2. Rubber dust from car tires and motor oil on the road
splatters all over my clean chain and just gunks it up
faster than I can clean it.

Any thoughts.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

I have two theorys why the roadbike chain is always black.
Possibly a combination of them

Quoted message said:

1. It doesn't get clean enough since I clean it on the
bike and the wax doesn't get a chance to penetrate all
the way down to the metal. Instead it mixes out with
what's left of the degreaser and stays forever wet.

Could be...

Quoted message said:

2. Rubber dust from car tires and motor oil on the road
splatters all over my clean chain and just gunks it up
faster than I can clean it.

Most likely, your road bike chain doesn't pick up as much
dirt, and doesn't get cleaned as often. Therefore, more
of what's on it is powdered metal from wear, which is
black. Your MTB chain probably has a higher proportion of
trail dirt.

Matt O.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride. (And Yes the chain is
removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone make a lube that
stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

I'm guessing that if your White Lightning turns black before
you even ride you're not getting the chain really clean..

I use White Lightning on my touring and mountain bikes and
I've never experienced this.

On my "good bikes" I still hot wax. There's an article on
chain waxing I posted in 1996 at: tinyurl.com2brcnOpen ↗

There are some things in the article I would now change, but
basically it's still accurate. I've stopped re-pushing pins
in Hyperglide chains after suffering a failure, and I I now
use Forster (nee Craig) Super Links to connect my chains.

Note, hot waxing isn't for everyone. You have to be a bit
anal to enjoy this ritual. ;-)

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

---snip---

Quoted message said:

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise stripping
the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life;
following the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a
Good Idea.

---big snip---

What do you do to clean the grime between the plates if you
don't use a solvent?

--Art

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride.

But what does your chain sound like? I only service my chain
when the jockey wheels start to sound like a mad hornet.

Quoted message said:

(And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't
anyone make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't
want to use motor oil. Any other suggestions ?

Spray lubricant with a straw blows grease and grit out of
the chain rollers and off the chain rings. After spraying
and wiping everything down I'm good for about 300 miles.
Even using cheap 79 cent Walmart spray lube with a rag
removes grease and washes grit out of the rollers.

Quoted message said:

Larry said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride.

But what does your chain sound like? I only service
my chain when the jockey wheels start to sound like a
mad hornet.

Quoted message said:

(And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't
anyone make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I
don't want to use motor oil. Any other suggestions ?

Spray lubricant with a straw blows grease and grit out of
the chain rollers and off the chain rings. After spraying
and wiping everything down I'm good for about 300 miles.
Even using cheap 79 cent Walmart spray lube with a rag
removes grease and washes grit out of the rollers.

Actually, it's more likely to wash grit from the outside of
the chain *into* the pins and rollers.

Wiping the chain after riding can help keep dirt from
building up, but once it's in the rollers it has to be
flushed out somehow. This probably requires removing the
chain from the bike and soaking/agitating it in a
solvent bath.

BTW, steam cleaning may be a good way to go. I've had good
luck with high pressure water from a garden hose or pressure
washer, after soaking the chain in solvent. But a little
spray solvent/lube from a can won't do it.

Just because it's quiet and shifting smoothly doesn't mean
it isn't grinding itself and your cogs to pieces.

Matt O.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:07:59 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Larry said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it
turns black before I even ride.

But what does your chain sound like? I only service my
chain when the jockey wheels start to sound like a mad
hornet.

Quoted message said:

(And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't
anyone make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I
don't want to use motor oil. Any other suggestions ?

Spray lubricant with a straw blows grease and grit out of
the chain rollers and off the chain rings. After spraying
and wiping everything down I'm good for about 300 miles.
Even using cheap 79 cent Walmart spray lube with a rag
removes grease and washes grit out of the rollers.

Actually, it's more likely to wash grit from the outside of
the chain *into* the pins and rollers.

Wiping the chain after riding can help keep dirt from
building up, but once it's in the rollers it has to be
flushed out somehow. This probably requires removing the
chain from the bike and soaking/agitating it in a
solvent bath.

BTW, steam cleaning may be a good way to go. I've had good
luck with high pressure water from a garden hose or
pressure washer, after soaking the chain in solvent. But a
little spray solvent/lube from a can won't do it.

Just because it's quiet and shifting smoothly doesn't mean
it isn't grinding itself and your cogs to pieces.

Matt O.

I always thought quiet meant clean. Chain mileage would have
to be the ultimate test then. There should be a chart
somewhere of different cleaning methods people use and the
mileages they get before the chain wears a 16th of an inch.
Problem is there are too many variables such as rider weight
and riding environment. A large bike club might be able to
gather enough data to see a trend. If you can get 2000 miles
of quiet smooth shifting out of a chain by just spraying it
out and wiping it down you really have nothing to complain
about though.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:35:39 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"

may have said:

I have two theorys why the roadbike chain is always black.
Possibly a combination of them
1. It doesn't get clean enough since I clean it on the bike
and the wax doesn't get a chance to penetrate all the
way down to the metal. Instead it mixes out with what's
left of the degreaser and stays forever wet.

Likely, in my opinion.

Quoted message said:

2. Rubber dust from car tires and motor oil on the road
splatters all over my clean chain and just gunks it up
faster than I can clean it.

Unlikely in my opinion; if there was enough oil on the road
to contaminate your chain, it would show up on the downtube,
tires, and your back first...and tire dust is neither going
to stick without an agent to cause it to adhere, nor common
enough to account for the crud.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"

may have said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

---snip---

Quoted message said:

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise stripping
the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life;
following the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a
Good Idea.

---big snip---

What do you do to clean the grime between the plates if you
don't use a solvent?

If you follow their recommendations, you *don't* clean
between the plates. Apparently, removing their lube does
more harm than would be caused by the limited amount of crud
that can get in if the lube is still present.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"

may have said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

---snip---

Quoted message said:

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise
stripping the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life;
following the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a
Good Idea.

---big snip---

What do you do to clean the grime between the plates if
you don't use a solvent?

If you follow their recommendations, you *don't* clean
between the plates. Apparently, removing their lube does
more harm than would be caused by the limited amount of
crud that can get in if the lube is still present.

The part I find strange about all these chain maintenance
threads is that the simplest advice given is to wipe the
chain with a rag, dribble a little oil on it, wipe off the
excess, and repeat as necessary. Then when the chain shows
wear, replace it.

This advice is simple to follow, cheap, and meshes with the
manufacturer's recommendations. There is no evidence that
chain life is worse than if one cleans the chain every 15
miles and uses some magical chain lube that costs 25$ an
ounce. (I'm tempted to suggest it might be better, since
once the manufacturer's lube is gone or contaminated there
is practically no way to replace it.)

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive ways to maintain their chain, that
seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed into the
water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

Mark South said:

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive ways to maintain their chain, that
seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed into
the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

I'll be drifting way off topic here, but CFCs have not been
used as aerosol propellent for quite some time. They were
already on the way out back in 1987 when the Montreal
Protocol was signed.

Mark South said:

... But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive ways to maintain their chain, that
seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed into
the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as the
day they came out of the box :-)

Francesco

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

... But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-
intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots
more solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as the
day they came out of the box :-)

So build a bike that's not for riding.

As a bonus, the tyres will stay clean, the bar tape will
be pristine, and the pedals won't get any scratches from
the cleats.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen, Bike User