Chain watcher for OCLV

psycholist said:

In another thread I posted about a problem with my chain falling off to the
inside of the cranks on my FSA carbon compact crankset. A number of replies
directed me to get a Jump Stop, a Third Eye Chain Watcher or some similar
device.

I ride a Trek OCLV. The seat tube flares into the bottom bracket right
where most of these devices need to be attached, so they won't work. Does
anyone know of one of these devices that will work on an OCLV frame?

Thanks,
Bob C.

Dear Bob,

You want a Trek part (a big metal washer dingus) that Mike
Jacoubowsky mentioned here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/9e2573f8c5e310eb/fa1c896d3806de48?q=dear+carl+deda+trek&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fhl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26num%3D10%26q%3Ddear+carl+deda+trek%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#fa1c896d3806de48
or http://tinyurl.com/4nxxj

To my horror, Google Groups is now forcing old links to look
at the new beta version, which arouses my instant dislike.

Here are the details:

Quoted message said:

Trek dealers don't usually have them in stock,
unless they sell a lot of OCLV road bikes. But
they can get them very quickly. I believe the
part # is 67310-1, and cost is about $5. They're
presently stocked only in the Wisconsin warehouse,
so depending upon where you live, it might take a
week for shipping to your shop, plus extra
days depending upon where the dealer is in their
order cycle at the time.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

I ride a Trek OCLV. The seat tube flares into the bottom bracket right
where most of these devices need to be attached, so they won't work. Does
anyone know of one of these devices that will work on an OCLV frame?

Bob: No such animal as a chain-watcher device for an OCLV, due to the flared
seat tube making it impossible to mount something like that. The
chain-keeper ring should have been on your bike from the start though. Did
you somehow get a bike without one? That would be a bad thing, since a steel
chain can make a quick meal of a carbon tube if it were to get jammed up in
the crank spider.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

In another thread I posted about a problem with my chain falling off to
the
inside of the cranks on my FSA carbon compact crankset. A number of
replies
directed me to get a Jump Stop, a Third Eye Chain Watcher or some similar
device.

I ride a Trek OCLV. The seat tube flares into the bottom bracket right
where most of these devices need to be attached, so they won't work. Does
anyone know of one of these devices that will work on an OCLV frame?

Thanks,
Bob C.

Dear Bob,

You want a Trek part (a big metal washer dingus) that Mike
Jacoubowsky mentioned here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/9e2573f8c5e310eb/fa1c896d3806de48?q=dear+carl+deda+trek&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fhl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26num%3D10%26q%3Ddear+carl+deda+trek%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#fa1c896d3806de48
or http://tinyurl.com/4nxxj

To my horror, Google Groups is now forcing old links to look
at the new beta version, which arouses my instant dislike.

Here are the details:

Quoted message said:

Trek dealers don't usually have them in stock,
unless they sell a lot of OCLV road bikes. But
they can get them very quickly. I believe the
part # is 67310-1, and cost is about $5. They're
presently stocked only in the Wisconsin warehouse,
so depending upon where you live, it might take a
week for shipping to your shop, plus extra
days depending upon where the dealer is in their
order cycle at the time.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Carl Fogel

That's already on there. Not doing the job.

Thanks,
Bob C.

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I ride a Trek OCLV. The seat tube flares into the bottom bracket right
where most of these devices need to be attached, so they won't work.
Does anyone know of one of these devices that will work on an OCLV frame?

Bob: No such animal as a chain-watcher device for an OCLV, due to the
flared seat tube making it impossible to mount something like that. The
chain-keeper ring should have been on your bike from the start though. Did
you somehow get a bike without one? That would be a bad thing, since a
steel chain can make a quick meal of a carbon tube if it were to get
jammed up in the crank spider.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

The big metal washer is there. But it's no help to the chain drop situation
or the inability to pick it back up.

Bob

In article <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

The big metal washer is there. But it's no help to the chain drop situation
or the inability to pick it back up.

Are you using a double or triple? With a double, you should be able to set
you limit screws pretty easily to keep the chain from dumping. With a Shimano
triple, I have heard of some people using small washers to move the granny
ring inward a little to eliminate chain drop.

"no spam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

The big metal washer is there. But it's no help to the chain drop
situation
or the inability to pick it back up.

Are you using a double or triple? With a double, you should be able to
set
you limit screws pretty easily to keep the chain from dumping. With a
Shimano
triple, I have heard of some people using small washers to move the granny
ring inward a little to eliminate chain drop.

It's a double, but it's already set to where the chain rubs the cage in the
the small ring/largest cog ... and it still drops the chain.

FYI,
Bob C.

psycholist said:

It's a double, but it's already set to where the chain rubs the
cage in the the small ring/largest cog ... and it still drops the
chain.

My 5200 triple had a similar problem. After uncounted derailleur
adjustments by me and by the LBS, it turned out that the chain was too
long. The LBS removed a link or two, and I haven't had a problem
since.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: [email hidden])

"Ray Heindl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

It's a double, but it's already set to where the chain rubs the
cage in the the small ring/largest cog ... and it still drops the
chain.

My 5200 triple had a similar problem. After uncounted derailleur
adjustments by me and by the LBS, it turned out that the chain was too
long. The LBS removed a link or two, and I haven't had a problem
since.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: [email hidden])

That's a possibility, Ray. Thanks for the suggestion. I made sure to
remind my LBS to check that when he installed the crank. Couldn't be sure
if he did or not.

Bob C.

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:47:55 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"no spam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

The big metal washer is there. But it's no help to the chain drop
situation
or the inability to pick it back up.

Are you using a double or triple? With a double, you should be able to
set
you limit screws pretty easily to keep the chain from dumping. With a
Shimano
triple, I have heard of some people using small washers to move the granny
ring inward a little to eliminate chain drop.

It's a double, but it's already set to where the chain rubs the cage in the
the small ring/largest cog ... and it still drops the chain.

I wonder if the derailleur really has much control over the chain in
mid shift. I think of the chain as practically in free-fall. If it
falls too far, maybe moving the chain ring inboard will help? Like a
baseball outfielder moving under the ball.... ;-)

"dianne_1234" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:47:55 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"no spam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
psycholist <[email hidden]> wrote:
>The big metal washer is there. But it's no help to the chain drop
>situation
>or the inability to pick it back up.

Are you using a double or triple? With a double, you should be able to
set
you limit screws pretty easily to keep the chain from dumping. With a
Shimano
triple, I have heard of some people using small washers to move the
granny
ring inward a little to eliminate chain drop.

It's a double, but it's already set to where the chain rubs the cage in
the
the small ring/largest cog ... and it still drops the chain.

I wonder if the derailleur really has much control over the chain in
mid shift. I think of the chain as practically in free-fall. If it
falls too far, maybe moving the chain ring inboard will help? Like a
baseball outfielder moving under the ball.... ;-)

Dianne,

I meant to ask you about that on the other thread. The thought that occurs
to me is that you could solve the problem of the chain dropping on
downshifts, but might you create a problem where it becomes hard to shift
from the small to the big ring due to the added distance?

Bob C.

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:15:02 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"dianne_1234" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I wonder if the derailleur really has much control over the chain in
mid shift. I think of the chain as practically in free-fall. If it
falls too far, maybe moving the chain ring inboard will help? Like a
baseball outfielder moving under the ball.... ;-)

Dianne,

I meant to ask you about that on the other thread. The thought that occurs
to me is that you could solve the problem of the chain dropping on
downshifts, but might you create a problem where it becomes hard to shift
from the small to the big ring due to the added distance?

Bob C.

Good question, and I haven't tried it yet. Christmas is coming, you
know. ;-)

But for the price of the spacers it might be worth a try. You could
always take them out again.

The parts are Item #WB-CS6 at http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
"dianne_1234" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:15:02 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"dianne_1234" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I wonder if the derailleur really has much control over the chain in
mid shift. I think of the chain as practically in free-fall. If it
falls too far, maybe moving the chain ring inboard will help? Like a
baseball outfielder moving under the ball.... ;-)

Dianne,

I meant to ask you about that on the other thread. The thought that
occurs
to me is that you could solve the problem of the chain dropping on
downshifts, but might you create a problem where it becomes hard to shift
from the small to the big ring due to the added distance?

Bob C.

Good question, and I haven't tried it yet. Christmas is coming, you
know. ;-)

But for the price of the spacers it might be worth a try. You could
always take them out again.

The parts are Item #WB-CS6 at http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi

HA! You don't know how technically challenged I am. The idea of installing
them causes enough anxiety. The idea of having to potentially remove them
cuz they don't work might be more than I can bear. ;-)

Actually, I studied the pictures of the various chain watcher products then
fashioned my own out of a piece of galvanized roofing tin I had laying
around. I zip-tied it to the frame and went out on a 3 hour test ride
yesterday afternoon. I did tons of hills so I could test the shifting under
all kinds of load and with shifts in all the different rear combinations.
My little device worked like a charm. At least I think it did (it's hard to
test for the absence of a negative). I never once dropped the chain and I
would have expected to at least several times based on recent history.
What's really cool is, it cost $0, it weighs less than any of the products
on the market and it's more aerodynamic, presenting only the leading edge of
a piece of 29 gauge steel to the wind.

Maybe I'm not so technically challenged.

psycholist said:

Actually, I studied the pictures of the various chain watcher
products then fashioned my own out of a piece of galvanized roofing
tin I had laying around. I zip-tied it to the frame and went out on
a 3 hour test ride yesterday afternoon. I did tons of hills so I
could test the shifting under all kinds of load and with shifts in
all the different rear combinations. My little device worked like a
charm. At least I think it did (it's hard to test for the absence of
a negative). I never once dropped the chain and I would have
expected to at least several times based on recent history. What's
really cool is, it cost $0, it weighs less than any of the products
on the market and it's more aerodynamic, presenting only the leading
edge of a piece of 29 gauge steel to the wind.

Maybe I'm not so technically challenged.

Perhaps...but will Fabrizio ride with you now?

Awaiting a pic,
--
BS (no, really)

psycholist said:

"dianne_1234" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if the derailleur really has much control over the chain in
mid shift. I think of the chain as practically in free-fall. If it
falls too far, maybe moving the chain ring inboard will help? Like a
baseball outfielder moving under the ball.... ;-)

Quoted message said:

Dianne,

I meant to ask you about that on the other thread. The thought that occurs
to me is that you could solve the problem of the chain dropping on
downshifts, but might you create a problem where it becomes hard to shift
from the small to the big ring due to the added distance?

I did this several years ago. The washers helped the big -> small shift
and they didn't affect the small -> big shift. The washers I used were
too small, so they didn't fix the problem completely. I think there may
have been another problem (i.e. a chain too long), but the small washers
reduced the problem enough that I didn't mess with it any further. Then
the bike died, making it a moot point.

--
Dave
dvt at psu do tedu

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:13:49 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Actually, I studied the pictures of the various chain watcher products then
fashioned my own out of a piece of galvanized roofing tin I had laying
around. I zip-tied it to the frame and went out on a 3 hour test ride
yesterday afternoon. I did tons of hills so I could test the shifting under
all kinds of load and with shifts in all the different rear combinations.
My little device worked like a charm. At least I think it did (it's hard to
test for the absence of a negative). I never once dropped the chain and I
would have expected to at least several times based on recent history.
What's really cool is, it cost $0, it weighs less than any of the products
on the market and it's more aerodynamic, presenting only the leading edge of
a piece of 29 gauge steel to the wind.

Maybe I'm not so technically challenged.

Wow, that's great! Got any pictures? I know of some OCLV frames that
would love to have the added insurance of a chain watcher...