Chains, chainsets and cassettes

Quoted message said:

Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
http://tinyurl.com/qj47s

Noooo, you want a powerlink. <www.mtbr.com/reviews/Chain/product_
20594.shtml> or google should provide plenty of gushing reviews about them.
Cost £2 to £3 from LBS - get a lesson in how to get 'em open as well
(there's a knack to it).

The chain tool in the tool kit will let you remove the chain without a
powerlink, but it takes much longer and is a complete faff.

You shouldn't need the spare chain pins at all.

in message <[email hidden]>,

Ian B. (') said:

I've made a shopping list on wiggle for a new chain, cassette and
chainset to replace my old rusty ones. The chain is the main problem
(rusty) but none are in great conditions so I thought I'd replace the
lot.

I was wondering if anyone could give me advice as to anything I've
overlooked, compatibility for example (it's for a 7 speed Raleigh MTB
from ~1998).

Also is this an over-ambitious project, seeing as I've
never done much bike repair before? Still, not the end of the world if
I have problems as I can always return incorrect stuff!

Shimano HG40 Chain - http://tinyurl.com/mejo5

Don't get a Shimano chain. The joining pins are a clumsy solution - SRAM
chains with magic links are much better.

Quoted message said:

Shimano HG30 Cassette - http://tinyurl.com/m5frf

Shimano T303 Chainset - http://tinyurl.com/ru4z5

Is this compatible with your existing bottom bracket? If not you may need
to replace your bottom bracket as well. Shimano seem to change bottom
bracket designs fairly frequently, for no obvious technical reason.

Quoted message said:

Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
http://tinyurl.com/qj47s

Don't. They're not worth it. Get a SRAM chain.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

A message from our sponsor: This site is now in free fall

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
http://tinyurl.com/qj47s

Noooo, you want a powerlink. <www.mtbr.com/reviews/Chain/product_
20594.shtml> or google should provide plenty of gushing reviews about them.
Cost £2 to £3 from LBS - get a lesson in how to get 'em open as well
(there's a knack to it).

Don't spend that much on one, when you can get a Sram pc48 7/8 speed
chain with a powerlink for £5 from the likes of Merlin or Spa Cycles.

Quoted message said:

The chain tool in the tool kit will let you remove the chain without a
powerlink, but it takes much longer and is a complete faff.

You will need the chain tool to remove links to get the new chain to the
correct length.

Quoted message said:

You shouldn't need the spare chain pins at all.

Indeed. Or the Shimano chain.

I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools though.

The grease is a tad overpriced aswell - I'd want at least four times the
quantity of waterproof grease for that amount of money. Even your local
Halfords will have something just as good in their motorbike section for
a lot less.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Mark Thompson pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com said:

Quoted message said:

Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
http://tinyurl.com/qj47s

Noooo, you want a powerlink. <www.mtbr.com/reviews/Chain/product_
20594.shtml> or google should provide plenty of gushing reviews about them.
Cost £2 to £3 from LBS - get a lesson in how to get 'em open as well
(there's a knack to it).

The chain tool in the tool kit will let you remove the chain without a
powerlink, but it takes much longer and is a complete faff.

You shouldn't need the spare chain pins at all.

About £1 is usual for powerlinks from the LBSen round here. The
last one was free since they'd cashed up for the day and were wanting to
get away sharpish!
--
Tim.

[email hidden]

Jim Price said:

Don't spend that much on one, when you can get a Sram pc48 7/8 speed
chain with a powerlink for £5 from the likes of Merlin or Spa Cycles.

Indeed, that seems to be a definite consensus here!

Quoted message said:

I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to leave
it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.

Quoted message said:

If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools
though.

Ah yes, the looney max tool box looks like it has most of the same stuff
(except for a puncture repair kit which I don't need anyhow) for £26.45?
Seems like a bargain, and in a lucky conicedence I'm going up to
Nottingham on Sunday :-).

Quoted message said:

The grease is a tad overpriced aswell - I'd want at least four times the
quantity of waterproof grease for that amount of money. Even your local
Halfords will have something just as good in their motorbike section for
a lot less.

Ah yes, I choose that cause I wasn't really sure what stuff is good to
use (and I have had bad experience with grease in the past!), and the
Park Tools website recommends that for most of their stuff. So just bog
standard grease for a motorbike should do the trick?

Thanks a lot for your help, it is greatly appreciated,
Ian

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano HG30 Cassette - http://tinyurl.com/m5frf

Shimano T303 Chainset - http://tinyurl.com/ru4z5

Is this compatible with your existing bottom bracket? If not you may need
to replace your bottom bracket as well. Shimano seem to change bottom
bracket designs fairly frequently, for no obvious technical reason.

Umm, good question, how can I tell? My current chainset has on it
something like "Shimano Dual SIS" and reading around the fact it is
Shimano seems to suggest another Shimano chainset should be ok. But I am
slightly confused on the matter, is there someway I can check if it will
be compatible without taking the current chainset off?

Thanks for the help!
Ian

in message <[email hidden]>,

Ian B. (') said:

Jim Price said:

Don't spend that much on one, when you can get a Sram pc48 7/8 speed
chain with a powerlink for £5 from the likes of Merlin or Spa Cycles.

Indeed, that seems to be a definite consensus here!

Quoted message said:

I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to leave
it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.

I have to say that upgrading the chainset was my first thought too.

The chainset you selected was a rivetted steel one. That has one real
benefit - it's hard wearing and will survive abuse for a long time - but
a number of downsides:

* It's less stiff and will flex, leading to an irritating 'chirr' of the
chain against one of the guides of front derailleur at every
revolution, and to slightly accelerated wear of both chain and
derailleur.
* It's not serviceable, and once it's worn out all you can do is scrap
and replace; if just one ring is worn you still have to scrap the lot.
* It's heavier (although not very much).

But really the main disadvantage (on a utility bike) is the irritating
noise, so I would always prefer a stiffer chainset, which realistically
means at least an alloy spider - alloy rings aren't needed and neither
does it matter from this point of view whether they're rivetted or
bolted.

But given it is such a substantial step up in price, you need to think
about whether that is worth it to you (and if the bottom bracket flexes
you'll get a 'chirr' anyway, no matter how good the chainset).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools
though.

Ah yes, the looney max tool box looks like it has most of the same
stuff (except for a puncture repair kit which I don't need anyhow) for
£26.45? Seems like a bargain, and in a lucky conicedence I'm going up
to Nottingham on Sunday :-).

My experience is that cheap tools are a very bad bargain; the tools which
have earned their place in my toolbox are mainly Park, Pedro's or
Campagnolo.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

Ian B. said:

Jim Price said:

I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to leave
it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.

Its light, its made largely out of aluminium (unlike the one you're
looking at which has lots of pressed steel and plastic), it has
replaceable chainrings (the inner and middle of which are the only ones
made out of steel) so you don't need to replace the whole chainset next
time, and it looks good (subjective). Its also cheaper at chain reaction
(and worth looking for in Decathlon), and works really well with the
Sram pc48 chain (that's my touring bike setup). The m510 is a budget
chainset, whereas the t303 is for people who don't ride their bikes.
I've bent a similar chainset just by pedalling.

One more thing to check before you buy is how long your bottom bracket
is, as different chainsets sometimes need different bottom brackets. If
your cranks have bolts to hold them on, you measure the longest part of
the axle, if the cranks are secured by nuts, you don't measure the
threaded bit. The m510 uses about a 113mm axle (from memory - although
anything from 110 to 115 is likely to work OK).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools
though.

Ah yes, the looney max tool box looks like it has most of the same stuff
(except for a puncture repair kit which I don't need anyhow) for £26.45?
Seems like a bargain, and in a lucky conicedence I'm going up to
Nottingham on Sunday :-).

Some more money saved!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The grease is a tad overpriced aswell - I'd want at least four times
the quantity of waterproof grease for that amount of money. Even your
local Halfords will have something just as good in their motorbike
section for a lot less.

Ah yes, I choose that cause I wasn't really sure what stuff is good to
use (and I have had bad experience with grease in the past!), and the
Park Tools website recommends that for most of their stuff. So just bog
standard grease for a motorbike should do the trick?

As long as it says waterproof somewhere on the tin, yes. Its cheaper
because motorcycles need more of it. I have a 500g tub which looks like
lasting years, even though I do a lot (for a non-bike-shop version of a
lot) of bike maintenance and building.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

in message <[email hidden]>,

Ian B. (') said:

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano HG30 Cassette - http://tinyurl.com/m5frf

Shimano T303 Chainset - http://tinyurl.com/ru4z5

Is this compatible with your existing bottom bracket? If not you may
need to replace your bottom bracket as well. Shimano seem to change
bottom bracket designs fairly frequently, for no obvious technical
reason.

Umm, good question, how can I tell? My current chainset has on it
something like "Shimano Dual SIS" and reading around the fact it is
Shimano seems to suggest another Shimano chainset should be ok. But I
am slightly confused on the matter, is there someway I can check if it
will be compatible without taking the current chainset off?

Shimano have used at least two different square taper systems, at least
one solid-axle splined system ('Octalink'😉, and now the external-bearing
hollow axle splined system called 'Hollowtech II'. As far as I know
Shimano have never produced an ISIS bottom bracket, the change in square
tapers was a long time ago, and the Hollowtech II is only on very
expensive machinery. So if your bottom bracket axle has splines it's an
Octalink (eight splines; if it has nine splines then it /is/ an ISIS)
and if it's a square taper I *think* any current Shimano square taper
will fit.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Windows 95:
You, you, you! You make a grown man cry...
M. Jagger/K. Richards

Jim Price said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to
leave it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.

Its light, its made largely out of aluminium (unlike the one you're
looking at which has lots of pressed steel and plastic), it has
replaceable chainrings (the inner and middle of which are the only ones
made out of steel) so you don't need to replace the whole chainset next
time, and it looks good (subjective). Its also cheaper at chain reaction
(and worth looking for in Decathlon), and works really well with the
Sram pc48 chain (that's my touring bike setup). The m510 is a budget
chainset, whereas the t303 is for people who don't ride their bikes.
I've bent a similar chainset just by pedalling.

One more thing to check before you buy is how long your bottom bracket
is, as different chainsets sometimes need different bottom brackets. If
your cranks have bolts to hold them on, you measure the longest part of
the axle, if the cranks are secured by nuts, you don't measure the
threaded bit. The m510 uses about a 113mm axle (from memory - although
anything from 110 to 115 is likely to work OK).

One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet you
say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing something, or
do 9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything else?

Thanks again for all the help and advice everyone!
Ian

"Ian B." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet you
say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing something, or do
9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything else?

Yes, they're fine.

cheers,
clive

Ian B. said:

One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet you
say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing something, or
do 9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything else?

It works fine for 7, 8 and 9 speed, as long as you use a decent chain
like the Sram pc48 (which is technically an 8 speed chain, but works
fine for 7 speed). If you went down to Halfords and bought their 5/6/7
speed chain you'd find it wouldn't work so well, but you'd have to be
slightly mad to do that - its not even as cheap.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

in message <[email hidden]>,

Ian B. (') said:

Jim Price said:

Quoted message said:

> I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano
> deore M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle.
> Its an extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to
leave it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on
parts.

Its light, its made largely out of aluminium (unlike the one you're
looking at which has lots of pressed steel and plastic), it has
replaceable chainrings (the inner and middle of which are the only
ones made out of steel) so you don't need to replace the whole
chainset next time, and it looks good (subjective). Its also cheaper
at chain reaction (and worth looking for in Decathlon), and works
really well with the Sram pc48 chain (that's my touring bike setup).
The m510 is a budget chainset, whereas the t303 is for people who
don't ride their bikes. I've bent a similar chainset just by
pedalling.

One more thing to check before you buy is how long your bottom bracket
is, as different chainsets sometimes need different bottom brackets.
If your cranks have bolts to hold them on, you measure the longest
part of the axle, if the cranks are secured by nuts, you don't measure
the threaded bit. The m510 uses about a 113mm axle (from memory -
although anything from 110 to 115 is likely to work OK).

One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet
you say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing
something, or do 9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything
else?

The inside width of a 9 speed is the same as the internal width of an 8,
7, 6, or indeed 5 speed chain. It's only at ten speed that the internal
width changes. So there's no difference between a nine-speed chainring
and a five-speed chainring, except the label (and the price tag).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03