Cheap Eats Needn't Mean Fatty Doom

[email hidden] wrote:
| ?
| Cheap Eats Needn't Mean Fatty Doom
| ?
| By Jeff Stier, Esq.
| ?
|
|
| Sally Squires' Washington Post article "The Cost of
Compliance"
| (February 22) dished a healthy dose of reality to those who
| suggest that the obesity crisis in this country is the fault
| of big business trying to dump cheap, unhealthy foods on an
| all-too-susceptible public.

A bigger problem is the large quantities of prepared/processed
foods consumed. Many of these foods contain over processed
ingredients and ingredients which are not healthy or in
unhealthy
quantities. Consumers would be better off to shop the produce
aisles at their grocery and prepare their meals from there. Not
only is it less exspensive but also healthier.

| Obesity is a real problem and requires a reasonable and
| scientifically sound approach we can all take seriously.
| Lawsuits against fast food companies, efforts to restrict food
| advertising, and demonization of soda (even diet soda) are all
| one big red herring.

Believe it or not, companies can only sell what people will buy.
If you think it is unhealthy don't let the advertising talk you
into
buying it, at least not in unhealthy quantities.

| Super Size Me viewers, or readers of Eric Schlosser's Fast
| Food Nation, Marion Nestle's Food Politics, or Greg Critser's
| Fat Land: How Americans Became the Fattest People in the
| World, will erroneously conclude that the obesity problem is
| the result of the availability of too much food, too many
| choices, and the low price of many items the Food Police deem
| unhealthy.

Hey, they're making money off of the clamour, that is their
goal.

| However, as Ms. Squires demonstrates, the components of a
| healthful diet are also easily available and low in cost -- it
| is up to the public to choose to incorporate them into their
| diets. Add in the missing ingredient, exercise, and we've got
| a recipe for success.

Unprepared foods from the produce aisles are plentiful and with
a little judicious shopping are cheaper than prepared foods.
Many previously seasonal or rare foods are now days plentiful.
Preparing meals from mostly raw or unprocessed foods allows
one to better control the content.

<clipped stuff>

Quoted message said:

Obesity is a real problem and requires a reasonable and scientifically
sound approach we can all take seriously. Lawsuits against fast food
companies, efforts to restrict food advertising, and demonization of
soda (even diet soda) are all one big red herring.

Red herring would certainly be healthier.

Quoted message said:

Super Size Me viewers, or readers of Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation,
Marion Nestle's Food Politics, or Greg Critser's Fat Land: How
Americans Became the Fattest People in the World, will erroneously
conclude that the obesity problem is the result of the availability of
too much food, too many choices, and the low price of many items the
Food Police deem unhealthy.

It is the result of too much cheap unhealthy food being available.
But like cigarrete makers, once the threat is known it is up to
people to respond. For fast food people don't really understand
the threat yet.

BJ in Texas said:

Unprepared foods from the produce aisles are plentiful and with
a little judicious shopping are cheaper than prepared foods.

On per calorie basis this isn't true. And the phrase a "little
judcious" shopping turns the sentence into meaninglessness. It's
like the original post where it says as long as you exercise
and eat healthy otherwise having a fast food meal won't hurt.
Well duh, but that's not how people work.

SNIP . . .

Quoted message said:

However, as Ms. Squires demonstrates, the components of a healthful
diet are also easily available and low in cost -- it is up to the
public to choose to incorporate them into their diets.

I was accused the other day by someone of being an elitist because I
contend that people can make choices in the area of food.

Her argument was I am an elitist because "poor people only know poor
food choices, because no one has educated them. You don't know what
it is to be poor."

Poor people vs. ignorant people, or people who do not stop to look
around is the key issue. And the fact is, some people just don't
care, or think about it. That is also their choice, as there is
certainly plenty of noise in all media about food - magazines,
internet, newspapers, television - about good food choices.

You have to be incredibly dense to not even be aware that there is
more to life than McDonalds. For a lot of people, they prefer
McDonalds. Let them eat there. Sure, their kids may become blimps,
but these kids cannot choose what mommy and daddy give them; this is
IMO poor parenting in food choices, but if the kids are getting great
stuff in other ways, perhaps this is not such an important issue. I
would much rather have a great individual who is secure, has good
self-esteem and boundaries, and eats junk food than someone who is
self-centered, has poor boundaries and esteem issues, thinks the world
owes them a living, is a drug addict or alcoholic or violent, and
lives the LC life style or is a vegetarian.

Her argument (my accuser), and many arguments against the fast food
industry are that people do not know anything different because this
is how they grew up. Consequently, the blame is on "someone else" and
therefore, the individual does not know anything, cannot do anything,
will not do anything. Someone else is to blame. The individual is a
classless victim. Total victims of marketing, advertising,
television, magazines, movies, internet. These same victims also see
good food choices in these same things, but because they are not told
so by Someone, they are not responsible. But because they are told
all about bad food choices, the fast foods and their marketing media
is all responsible. Let's sue!

To me, this is pure BS. I grew up on canned and frozen vegetables,
with fresh consisting of iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers and
corn. Fish. Meat. Rice. That's it. I leave home, I go shopping to
feed me (after all, mom ain't there to cook), and see all sorts of
things I have never seen before. Fresh beans. Different lettuces.
Artichokes. There is more than salt and pepper to season food.
Yogurt? Ricotta? Brown rice? Shrimp? Trout? But, damn, I cannot
choose these things because no god-given figure came down and said,
"Look here. You eat poor food. You are stupid. You cannot think.
You must be educated by me, the healthy food choice god." Bing! Hit
me in the head with a magic wand and I Have Seen The Light!

Obesity is caused by a variety of things. Bad eating habits. Insulin
resistance. Diseases and treatments which make it difficult to
impossible to lose weight or be slim. Genetic make up. However, the
person who really wants to lose weight, in general, probably can, but
it takes self-responsibility in whatever form it needs to take. If
you just do as everyone tells you and never question it, then you are
a fool. I was brought up to be obedient, but that does not mean I do
not think. I am just as much a product of American culture as
everyone else, and my cultural background as well. But am I a victim
of it? I don't think so. At times I have suffered from American
culture's stupidity, or kid stupidity, or people stupidty, but it does
not mean I am a victim unless I let myself be victimized.

And let me tell you, it took time and age to understand this - I know
people may not believe they have the ability to make life-changing
choices, but they do - and sometimes they need to learn it after years
of abuse. But the potential is almost always there, in each one of
us, unless there are some very extreme circumstances which are far
beyond the realms of this rant.

This group is filled with people of all socio-economic backgrounds,
educational levels, IQs, abilities, and so on. But each one of you
who has embarked on this way of living and eating made a choice. You
made decisions, sometimes in face of massive resistance and negativity
from medical professionals, family and friends. But, you are not a
victim of media negativity on LC nor the marketers of alternative
healthy eating styles and beliefs, or the marketers of junk food. You
used your brain. You made a choice. You may fail or succeed at
various choices. But - you exercised and exercise your free will.
That is one big step, and is one to be proud of: you are an
individual who has taken responsibility for yourself!

Nuff said from the elitist!

Kaede

176.5 / 171 / 115
LC since 2/20/05
http://knakao.blogspot.com/

greg <[email hidden]> wrote:
|| BJ in Texas wrote:
||| Unprepared foods from the produce aisles are plentiful and
||| with a little judicious shopping are cheaper than prepared
||| foods.
||
|| On per calorie basis this isn't true.

Maybe calorie density is one of the problems...

||And the phrase a "little
|| judcious" shopping turns the sentence into meaninglessness.

Buying items on sale and at cheaper markets .. hmmm

|| It's like the original post where it says as long as you
|| exercise and eat healthy otherwise having a fast food meal
|| won't hurt. Well duh, but that's not how people work.

Maybe they should.. and that is really the message. :-)

BJ

jeffstier said:

Sally Squires' Washington Post article "The Cost of Compliance"
(February 22) dished a healthy dose of reality to those who suggest
that the obesity crisis in this country is the fault of big business
trying to dump cheap, unhealthy foods on an all-too-susceptible public.

Obesity is a real problem and requires a reasonable and scientifically
sound approach we can all take seriously.  Lawsuits against fast food
companies, efforts to restrict food advertising, and demonization of
soda (even diet soda) are all one big red herring.

Super Size Me viewers, or readers of Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation,
Marion Nestle's Food Politics, or Greg Critser's Fat Land: How
Americans Became the Fattest People in the World, will erroneously
conclude that the obesity problem is the result of the availability of
too much food, too many choices, and the low price of many items the
Food Police deem unhealthy.

While personal responsibility needs to accompany the availability of
"cheap fattening foods", getting real and getting out of denial and
actually acknowledging that the wide availability of yummy empty-calorie
products IS indeed a factor with a strong pull would be a good start.

I used to have the mentality of wanting the most satisfaction food-wise
that I could possibly get for a small amount of money, and once you're
hooked it's not an easy trap to get out of.

However, it IS my responsibility to choose to not cave. It's choosing to
not cave that has helped me lose the weight. But the fact is that in our
instant gratification society, advertisers know exactly which strings to
pull to get more business. Transcending that BS is a matter of personal
responsibility.

Kaede Nakao said:

Total victims of marketing, advertising,
television, magazines, movies, internet.

Nice strawman you are building.
It's possible to say there is personal responsibility and
the environment has a dramatic impact on behaviour. Just
a picture of fast food makes you hungry. And when you are
hungry you want to eat. And what is 4.5 minutes away from
most people in the civilized world? MacDonalds. Is the food
good. Yes. Is it cheap. Yes. Cheaper than going to the store.
Is it a good value? Great value. Water flow down hill. Expecting
the majority of people to make choices that are healthier in
the far future when it is less convenient and more expensive
is too much to expect. As we can see with the obesity rates.

Quoted message said:

These same victims also see
good food choices in these same things, but because they are not told
so by Someone, they are not responsible. But because they are told
all about bad food choices, the fast foods and their marketing media
is all responsible. Let's sue!

I would sue to make the nutritional readily information available.

Quoted message said:

I grew up on canned and frozen vegetables,

Nothing wrong with that. That's far healther than a diet of fat
sugar and salt.

Quoted message said:

Obesity is caused by a variety of things. Bad eating habits. Insulin
resistance. Diseases and treatments which make it difficult to
impossible to lose weight or be slim. Genetic make up. However, the
person who really wants to lose weight, in general, probably can, but
it takes self-responsibility in whatever form it needs to take.

Solving the problem for someone who really wants to do something is not
the trick. The trick is to make it happen for the vast majority who
don't really want it. Why do we care? Primarlily because of the cost
of health care.

greg said:

Quoted message said:

Obesity is a real problem and requires a reasonable and

scientifically

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sound approach we can all take seriously. Lawsuits against fast

food

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

companies, efforts to restrict food advertising, and demonization

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soda (even diet soda) are all one big red herring.

Red herring would certainly be healthier.

Quoted message said:

Super Size Me viewers, or readers of Eric Schlosser's Fast Food

Nation,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Marion Nestle's Food Politics, or Greg Critser's Fat Land: How
Americans Became the Fattest People in the World, will erroneously
conclude that the obesity problem is the result of the availability

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

too much food, too many choices, and the low price of many items

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Food Police deem unhealthy.

It is the result of too much cheap unhealthy food being available.

Preposterous. Wealthy people don't get fat on exorbitantly-priced
foods like caviar, pâté de foie gras, truffles, filet mignon in
brandy glaze and Dom Perignon? This is not an exercise in Supply-Side
Economics, its that there is too little exercise. The same rubric
about inexpensive food as a root cause to a problem is used as a tool
by Government legislatures to tax fuel in an effort to curtail usage.
Gas prices have doubled in recent years and has demand decreased? No.
Of course not. Same with Twinkies and Supersize Fries and Big Mac's.
What side are you on? Do you want to increase the cost of these items
via the tax route or the predatory and confiscatory tort route of the
fast-food industry? Either way you've abrogated each individual's
right to choose what NOT to place into their mouths.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/weekly_petroleum_status_report/current/pdf/wpsrall.pdf

Quoted message said:

But like cigarrete makers, once the threat is known it is up to
people to respond. For fast food people don't really understand
the threat yet.

warehouse said:

This is not an exercise in Supply-Side
Economics, its that there is too little exercise.

Humans back in the day got at least 3 hours of activity a day. Today you
can go through life with no activity at all. Do you think it is
realistic to expect people to exercise even an hour per day? I don't
think it is.

Quoted message said:

The same rubric
about inexpensive food as a root cause to a problem is used as a tool
by Government legislatures to tax fuel in an effort to curtail usage.

No, it's just a fact of economics good, cheap, available food is a
marketing success. That seems obvious. Said food is cheaper than buying
at the store. Given the buying power of large companies like macdonalds
how could it not be?

Quoted message said:

Gas prices have doubled in recent years and has demand decreased? No.

You shift your food preferences. You don't need to eat more. We eat
outside the home more than ever now.

Quoted message said:

Of course not. Same with Twinkies and Supersize Fries and Big Mac's.
What side are you on? Do you want to increase the cost of these items
via the tax route or the predatory and confiscatory tort route of the
fast-food industry? Either way you've abrogated each individual's
right to choose what NOT to place into their mouths.

We know what people do on average. They gain weight. Arguing about what
people could do if they really really wanted is a waste of time. We know
what people do when given the choice. And the choice is perfectly
rational given the economics and the design of the human body.

There is no easy answer as to what to do about it. I don't think the
lawsuits are valid because the convincing evidence for the addictiveness
of fats and sugars is in 2004. It wasn't known before so there was no
cover up so there is no liability.

We do know it now so education is critical as is designing
non-obesegenic environments for our kids.

greg said:

warehouse said:

This is not an exercise in Supply-Side
Economics, its that there is too little exercise.

Humans back in the day got at least 3 hours of activity a day. Today

you

Quoted message said:

can go through life with no activity at all. Do you think it is
realistic to expect people to exercise even an hour per day? I don't
think it is.

What I expect is not relevant. Whether people exercise or not is their
choice. What they eat is their choice. How much they eat is their
choice. What part of the Declaration of Independence that Thomas
Jefferson wrote would you like to change?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness."

Do you want to trade a little Liberty and pursuit of Happiness for a
little more Life? Who left you in charge?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The same rubric
about inexpensive food as a root cause to a problem is used as a

tool

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by Government legislatures to tax fuel in an effort to curtail

usage.

Quoted message said:

No, it's just a fact of economics good, cheap, available food is a
marketing success. That seems obvious. Said food is cheaper than

buying

Quoted message said:

at the store.

Where do you shop for food? Tiffanys or Cartier?

Sack of 5lbs. of potatoes costs me $1.99
Six ounces of fries costs nearly as much.

Quoted message said:

Given the buying power of large companies like macdonalds
how could it not be?

It could not be because you're wrong.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gas prices have doubled in recent years and has demand decreased?

No.

Quoted message said:

You shift your food preferences. You don't need to eat more. We eat
outside the home more than ever now.

And your point is?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course not. Same with Twinkies and Supersize Fries and Big

Mac's.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What side are you on? Do you want to increase the cost of these

items

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

via the tax route or the predatory and confiscatory tort route of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fast-food industry? Either way you've abrogated each individual's
right to choose what NOT to place into their mouths.

We know what people do on average. They gain weight. Arguing about

what

Quoted message said:

people could do if they really really wanted is a waste of time. We

know

Quoted message said:

what people do when given the choice. And the choice is perfectly
rational given the economics and the design of the human body.

There is no easy answer as to what to do about it. I don't think the
lawsuits are valid because the convincing evidence for the

addictiveness

Quoted message said:

of fats and sugars is in 2004. It wasn't known before so there was no

Quoted message said:

cover up so there is no liability.

Do you know what the word addictive means or have you twisted it to
mean "I want to eat that Krispy Kreme doughnut"?

What's wrong with fat? Its a necessary component to your body and
metabolism. Is water and protein similarly addictive? Will you ration
salt too? This is what happens when self-proclaimed "social engineers"
such as yourself attempt to "fix" people:

http://www.rmoxham.freeserve.co.uk/salt%20starvation.htm

Quoted message said:

We do know it now so education is critical as is designing
non-obesegenic environments for our kids.

Playboy magazine is non-obesegenic. Surely you don't propose...

warehouse said:

What I expect is not relevant.

You have expectations about the declaration of independence so i'll
assume that is not relevant either.

Quoted message said:

Do you want to trade a little Liberty and pursuit of Happiness for a
little more Life? Who left you in charge?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Quoted message said:

Where do you shop for food? Tiffanys or Cartier?

Safeway and costco. I can eat for less than $14/day on fast food. I
spend more than that at the store.

Quoted message said:

Sack of 5lbs. of potatoes costs me $1.99
Six ounces of fries costs nearly as much.

One of the news groups on this list is low-carb. Potatoes won't do it
for me.

Quoted message said:

It could not be because you're wrong.

I don't think so.

Quoted message said:

Do you know what the word addictive means or have you twisted it to
mean "I want to eat that Krispy Kreme doughnut"?

Do you read that science stuff?

http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/addiction.html
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2002/bnlpr052002.htm
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2001/bnlpr020101.htm
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2004/bnlpr041904.htm
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2002/bnlpr062002.htm
http://www.drugabuse.gov/MedAdv/01/NR2-1.html
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_id=218391780&cat=1_4
http://www.nature.com/nsu/040329/040329-19.html
http://www.hhmi.org/news/friedman5.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-06/pu-sot062002.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/features/doe/2002-06/dnl-nfl061302.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-11/mcsc-bra110404.php
http://www.beyondchange-obesity.com/obResearch/foodAddiction.html
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392412
http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20041111-000001.html
http://www.jsonline.com/alive/news/jul03/152605.asp
http://www.nature.com/nsu/040329/040329-19.html
http://www.psychiatry.ufl.edu/newsletters/Content/[censored].pdf
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3606198
http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2005/0110/063.html
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/91015546/ABSTRACT

Quoted message said:

What's wrong with fat?

Never said there was something wrong with it in the right portions. In
our environment it is very difficult on average to get the right
portions. The combination of fats and sugars in fast food is addictive.
The portions are large. The food is cheap and good. The food is
available everywhere. We don't need to exercise. To expect anything
other than obesity would be odd.

Is it a requirement that you eat this food? No. But that's not the
standard. We know what people will do because they have already made
that choice.

Quoted message said:

Its a necessary component to your body and metabolism.
Is water and protein similarly addictive? Will you ration
salt too? This is what happens when self-proclaimed "social engineers"
such as yourself attempt to "fix" people:

How is it over in the deep end?

Quoted message said:

Playboy magazine is non-obesegenic. Surely you don't propose...

Obviously you are posting one handed.

greg said:

warehouse said:

What I expect is not relevant.

You have expectations about the declaration of independence so i'll
assume that is not relevant either.

Bad assumption. But then you got a million of them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you want to trade a little Liberty and pursuit of Happiness for

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

little more Life? Who left you in charge?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I know.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where do you shop for food? Tiffanys or Cartier?

Safeway and costco. I can eat for less than $14/day on fast food. I
spend more than that at the store.

Get yourself a refrigerator and stop eating the contents of your
shopping cart in one sitting you git.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sack of 5lbs. of potatoes costs me $1.99
Six ounces of fries costs nearly as much.

One of the news groups on this list is low-carb. Potatoes won't do it

Quoted message said:

for me.

None of your diatribe is low-carb. So what?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It could not be because you're wrong.

I don't think so.

That makes it correct, right?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you know what the word addictive means or have you twisted it to
mean "I want to eat that Krispy Kreme doughnut"?

Do you read that science stuff?

These are your cites?

Quoted message said:

http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/addiction.html
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2002/bnlpr052002.htm
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2001/bnlpr020101.htm
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2004/bnlpr041904.htm
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2002/bnlpr062002.htm
http://www.drugabuse.gov/MedAdv/01/NR2-1.html

Since when does "Dopamine Receptors Implicated in Obesity" correlate to
your argument?

Quoted message said:

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_id=218391780&cat=1_4

Quoted message said:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/040329/040329-19.html
http://www.hhmi.org/news/friedman5.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-06/pu-sot062002.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/features/doe/2002-06/dnl-nfl061302.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-11/mcsc-bra110404.php
http://www.beyondchange-obesity.com/obResearch/foodAddiction.html

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392412

Quoted message said:

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20041111-000001.html
http://www.jsonline.com/alive/news/jul03/152605.asp
http://www.nature.com/nsu/040329/040329-19.html
http://www.psychiatry.ufl.edu/newsletters/Content/[censored].pdf
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3606198

msnbc is science?

Quoted message said:

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2005/0110/063.html
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/91015546/ABSTRACT

Quoted message said:

What's wrong with fat?

Never said there was something wrong with it in the right portions.

In

Quoted message said:

our environment it is very difficult on average to get the right
portions. The combination of fats and sugars in fast food is

addictive.

Quoted message said:

The portions are large. The food is cheap and good. The food is
available everywhere. We don't need to exercise. To expect anything
other than obesity would be odd.

You're right. We'll starve them into shape. Go for it!

Quoted message said:

Is it a requirement that you eat this food? No. But that's not the
standard. We know what people will do because they have already made
that choice.

Quoted message said:

Its a necessary component to your body and metabolism.
Is water and protein similarly addictive? Will you ration
salt too? This is what happens when self-proclaimed "social

engineers"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

such as yourself attempt to "fix" people:

How is it over in the deep end?

So you are a self-proclaimed "social engineer". You'll get no relief
from this camp.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Playboy magazine is non-obesegenic. Surely you don't propose...

Obviously you are posting one handed.

Its only obvious to an expert in such matters. You're the expert.

I wish people would quit knocking McDonalds so. If one chooses, good
choices can be made from that menu, totally within a LC lifestyle.

Kaede Nakao said:

SNIP . . .

Quoted message said:

However, as Ms. Squires demonstrates, the components of a healthful
diet are also easily available and low in cost -- it is up to the
public to choose to incorporate them into their diets.

I was accused the other day by someone of being an elitist because I
contend that people can make choices in the area of food.

Her argument was I am an elitist because "poor people only know poor
food choices, because no one has educated them. You don't know what
it is to be poor."

Poor people vs. ignorant people, or people who do not stop to look
around is the key issue. And the fact is, some people just don't
care, or think about it. That is also their choice, as there is
certainly plenty of noise in all media about food - magazines,
internet, newspapers, television - about good food choices.

You have to be incredibly dense to not even be aware that there is
more to life than McDonalds. For a lot of people, they prefer
McDonalds. Let them eat there. Sure, their kids may become blimps,
but these kids cannot choose what mommy and daddy give them; this is
IMO poor parenting in food choices, but if the kids are getting great
stuff in other ways, perhaps this is not such an important issue. I
would much rather have a great individual who is secure, has good
self-esteem and boundaries, and eats junk food than someone who is
self-centered, has poor boundaries and esteem issues, thinks the world
owes them a living, is a drug addict or alcoholic or violent, and
lives the LC life style or is a vegetarian.

Her argument (my accuser), and many arguments against the fast food
industry are that people do not know anything different because this
is how they grew up. Consequently, the blame is on "someone else" and
therefore, the individual does not know anything, cannot do anything,
will not do anything. Someone else is to blame. The individual is a
classless victim. Total victims of marketing, advertising,
television, magazines, movies, internet. These same victims also see
good food choices in these same things, but because they are not told
so by Someone, they are not responsible. But because they are told
all about bad food choices, the fast foods and their marketing media
is all responsible. Let's sue!

To me, this is pure BS. I grew up on canned and frozen vegetables,
with fresh consisting of iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers and
corn. Fish. Meat. Rice. That's it. I leave home, I go shopping to
feed me (after all, mom ain't there to cook), and see all sorts of
things I have never seen before. Fresh beans. Different lettuces.
Artichokes. There is more than salt and pepper to season food.
Yogurt? Ricotta? Brown rice? Shrimp? Trout? But, damn, I cannot
choose these things because no god-given figure came down and said,
"Look here. You eat poor food. You are stupid. You cannot think.
You must be educated by me, the healthy food choice god." Bing! Hit
me in the head with a magic wand and I Have Seen The Light!

Obesity is caused by a variety of things. Bad eating habits. Insulin
resistance. Diseases and treatments which make it difficult to
impossible to lose weight or be slim. Genetic make up. However, the
person who really wants to lose weight, in general, probably can, but
it takes self-responsibility in whatever form it needs to take. If
you just do as everyone tells you and never question it, then you are
a fool. I was brought up to be obedient, but that does not mean I do
not think. I am just as much a product of American culture as
everyone else, and my cultural background as well. But am I a victim
of it? I don't think so. At times I have suffered from American
culture's stupidity, or kid stupidity, or people stupidty, but it does
not mean I am a victim unless I let myself be victimized.

And let me tell you, it took time and age to understand this - I know
people may not believe they have the ability to make life-changing
choices, but they do - and sometimes they need to learn it after years
of abuse. But the potential is almost always there, in each one of
us, unless there are some very extreme circumstances which are far
beyond the realms of this rant.

This group is filled with people of all socio-economic backgrounds,
educational levels, IQs, abilities, and so on. But each one of you
who has embarked on this way of living and eating made a choice. You
made decisions, sometimes in face of massive resistance and negativity
from medical professionals, family and friends. But, you are not a
victim of media negativity on LC nor the marketers of alternative
healthy eating styles and beliefs, or the marketers of junk food. You
used your brain. You made a choice. You may fail or succeed at
various choices. But - you exercised and exercise your free will.
That is one big step, and is one to be proud of: you are an
individual who has taken responsibility for yourself!

Nuff said from the elitist!

Kaede

176.5 / 171 / 115
LC since 2/20/05
http://knakao.blogspot.com/

warehouse said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

little more Life? Who left you in charge?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I know.

That must qualify as being deep for you.

Quoted message said:

Get yourself a refrigerator and stop eating the contents of your
shopping cart in one sitting you git.

Your true colors.

Quoted message said:

These are your cites?

Good generic usenet attack.

Quoted message said:

Since when does "Dopamine Receptors Implicated in Obesity" correlate to
your argument?

Guess that whole addiction mechanism is lost on you.

Quoted message said:

msnbc is science?

Ooh, another good generic attack. Don't strain yourself.

Quoted message said:

So you are a self-proclaimed "social engineer". You'll get no relief
from this camp.

Good move to go for the generic persecution complex based attack when
the facts won't work.

Roger - I am sorry to disagree with you. Yes, LC choices can be made
there, but it is still not a place to live or eat. My opinion. I
cannot tolerate the smell of the place, much less the food.

Roger Zoul said:

I wish people would quit knocking McDonalds so. If one chooses, good
choices can be made from that menu, totally within a LC lifestyle.

Kaede Nakao said:

SNIP . . .

Quoted message said:

However, as Ms. Squires demonstrates, the components of a healthful
diet are also easily available and low in cost -- it is up to the
public to choose to incorporate them into their diets.

I was accused the other day by someone of being an elitist because I
contend that people can make choices in the area of food.

Her argument was I am an elitist because "poor people only know poor
food choices, because no one has educated them. You don't know what
it is to be poor."

Poor people vs. ignorant people, or people who do not stop to look
around is the key issue. And the fact is, some people just don't
care, or think about it. That is also their choice, as there is
certainly plenty of noise in all media about food - magazines,
internet, newspapers, television - about good food choices.

You have to be incredibly dense to not even be aware that there is
more to life than McDonalds. For a lot of people, they prefer
McDonalds. Let them eat there. Sure, their kids may become blimps,
but these kids cannot choose what mommy and daddy give them; this is
IMO poor parenting in food choices, but if the kids are getting great
stuff in other ways, perhaps this is not such an important issue. I
would much rather have a great individual who is secure, has good
self-esteem and boundaries, and eats junk food than someone who is
self-centered, has poor boundaries and esteem issues, thinks the world
owes them a living, is a drug addict or alcoholic or violent, and
lives the LC life style or is a vegetarian.

Her argument (my accuser), and many arguments against the fast food
industry are that people do not know anything different because this
is how they grew up. Consequently, the blame is on "someone else" and
therefore, the individual does not know anything, cannot do anything,
will not do anything. Someone else is to blame. The individual is a
classless victim. Total victims of marketing, advertising,
television, magazines, movies, internet. These same victims also see
good food choices in these same things, but because they are not told
so by Someone, they are not responsible. But because they are told
all about bad food choices, the fast foods and their marketing media
is all responsible. Let's sue!

To me, this is pure BS. I grew up on canned and frozen vegetables,
with fresh consisting of iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers and
corn. Fish. Meat. Rice. That's it. I leave home, I go shopping to
feed me (after all, mom ain't there to cook), and see all sorts of
things I have never seen before. Fresh beans. Different lettuces.
Artichokes. There is more than salt and pepper to season food.
Yogurt? Ricotta? Brown rice? Shrimp? Trout? But, damn, I cannot
choose these things because no god-given figure came down and said,
"Look here. You eat poor food. You are stupid. You cannot think.
You must be educated by me, the healthy food choice god." Bing! Hit
me in the head with a magic wand and I Have Seen The Light!

Obesity is caused by a variety of things. Bad eating habits. Insulin
resistance. Diseases and treatments which make it difficult to
impossible to lose weight or be slim. Genetic make up. However, the
person who really wants to lose weight, in general, probably can, but
it takes self-responsibility in whatever form it needs to take. If
you just do as everyone tells you and never question it, then you are
a fool. I was brought up to be obedient, but that does not mean I do
not think. I am just as much a product of American culture as
everyone else, and my cultural background as well. But am I a victim
of it? I don't think so. At times I have suffered from American
culture's stupidity, or kid stupidity, or people stupidty, but it does
not mean I am a victim unless I let myself be victimized.

And let me tell you, it took time and age to understand this - I know
people may not believe they have the ability to make life-changing
choices, but they do - and sometimes they need to learn it after years
of abuse. But the potential is almost always there, in each one of
us, unless there are some very extreme circumstances which are far
beyond the realms of this rant.

This group is filled with people of all socio-economic backgrounds,
educational levels, IQs, abilities, and so on. But each one of you
who has embarked on this way of living and eating made a choice. You
made decisions, sometimes in face of massive resistance and negativity
from medical professionals, family and friends. But, you are not a
victim of media negativity on LC nor the marketers of alternative
healthy eating styles and beliefs, or the marketers of junk food. You
used your brain. You made a choice. You may fail or succeed at
various choices. But - you exercised and exercise your free will.
That is one big step, and is one to be proud of: you are an
individual who has taken responsibility for yourself!

Nuff said from the elitist!

Kaede

176.5 / 171 / 115
LC since 2/20/05
http://knakao.blogspot.com/

Wow - that is real shill material there. Calling people who criticize
the 900 pound gorilla the "food police" was good for a laugh though.
They are mostly wrong too, but at least they are well-intentioned.
Most of the obesity is the result of thyroid suppression due to too
much oxidative stress and/or chronic inflammation, once again due to
oxidative stress. Cut out the unsaturated fats and eat coconuts
instead and you'll see a big difference. Just eat like people in Sri
Lank eat, for example. You can even eat more calories than they do and
it won't matter, you still won't be fat. Eating processed food with no
antioxdiant protection as well as unsaturated fat and oxidized
cholesterol will put the fat on.

Roger Zoul said:

I wish people would quit knocking McDonalds so. If one chooses, good
choices can be made from that menu, totally within a LC lifestyle.

Exactly. Every now and then I get a 2-for-2 (two Sausage McMuffins),
and ask for a fork and salt and pepper. I eat the eggs and sausage
and toss the muffins. $2.70 (with tax) for two eggs and pieces of
sausage is a pretty good breakfast bargain.

Myra

Kaede Nakao said:

Roger - I am sorry to disagree with you. Yes, LC choices can be made
there, but it is still not a place to live or eat. My opinion. I
cannot tolerate the smell of the place, much less the food.

Kaede - Er, how many resaurants do you know of that are places to live or
eat? You're entitled to you opinion, but every McD I've been in smells fine
and if you pick well, the food can sustain you. It is unfair to
characterize the place as you do.

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

I wish people would quit knocking McDonalds so. If one chooses, good
choices can be made from that menu, totally within a LC lifestyle.

Kaede Nakao said:

SNIP . . .
>However, as Ms. Squires demonstrates, the components of a healthful
>diet are also easily available and low in cost -- it is up to the
>public to choose to incorporate them into their diets.

I was accused the other day by someone of being an elitist because I
contend that people can make choices in the area of food.

Her argument was I am an elitist because "poor people only know poor
food choices, because no one has educated them. You don't know what
it is to be poor."

Poor people vs. ignorant people, or people who do not stop to look
around is the key issue. And the fact is, some people just don't
care, or think about it. That is also their choice, as there is
certainly plenty of noise in all media about food - magazines,
internet, newspapers, television - about good food choices.

You have to be incredibly dense to not even be aware that there is
more to life than McDonalds. For a lot of people, they prefer
McDonalds. Let them eat there. Sure, their kids may become blimps,
but these kids cannot choose what mommy and daddy give them; this is
IMO poor parenting in food choices, but if the kids are getting
great stuff in other ways, perhaps this is not such an important
issue. I would much rather have a great individual who is secure,
has good self-esteem and boundaries, and eats junk food than
someone who is self-centered, has poor boundaries and esteem
issues, thinks the world owes them a living, is a drug addict or
alcoholic or violent, and lives the LC life style or is a
vegetarian.

Her argument (my accuser), and many arguments against the fast food
industry are that people do not know anything different because this
is how they grew up. Consequently, the blame is on "someone else"
and therefore, the individual does not know anything, cannot do
anything, will not do anything. Someone else is to blame. The
individual is a classless victim. Total victims of marketing,
advertising, television, magazines, movies, internet. These same
victims also see good food choices in these same things, but
because they are not told so by Someone, they are not responsible.
But because they are told all about bad food choices, the fast
foods and their marketing media is all responsible. Let's sue!

To me, this is pure BS. I grew up on canned and frozen vegetables,
with fresh consisting of iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers and
corn. Fish. Meat. Rice. That's it. I leave home, I go shopping
to feed me (after all, mom ain't there to cook), and see all sorts
of things I have never seen before. Fresh beans. Different
lettuces. Artichokes. There is more than salt and pepper to season
food. Yogurt? Ricotta? Brown rice? Shrimp? Trout? But, damn, I
cannot choose these things because no god-given figure came down
and said, "Look here. You eat poor food. You are stupid. You
cannot think. You must be educated by me, the healthy food choice
god." Bing! Hit me in the head with a magic wand and I Have Seen
The Light!

Obesity is caused by a variety of things. Bad eating habits.
Insulin resistance. Diseases and treatments which make it
difficult to impossible to lose weight or be slim. Genetic make
up. However, the person who really wants to lose weight, in
general, probably can, but it takes self-responsibility in whatever
form it needs to take. If you just do as everyone tells you and
never question it, then you are a fool. I was brought up to be
obedient, but that does not mean I do not think. I am just as much
a product of American culture as everyone else, and my cultural
background as well. But am I a victim of it? I don't think so.
At times I have suffered from American culture's stupidity, or kid
stupidity, or people stupidty, but it does not mean I am a victim
unless I let myself be victimized.

And let me tell you, it took time and age to understand this - I
know people may not believe they have the ability to make
life-changing choices, but they do - and sometimes they need to
learn it after years of abuse. But the potential is almost always
there, in each one of us, unless there are some very extreme
circumstances which are far beyond the realms of this rant.

This group is filled with people of all socio-economic backgrounds,
educational levels, IQs, abilities, and so on. But each one of you
who has embarked on this way of living and eating made a choice.
You made decisions, sometimes in face of massive resistance and
negativity from medical professionals, family and friends. But,
you are not a victim of media negativity on LC nor the marketers of
alternative healthy eating styles and beliefs, or the marketers of
junk food. You used your brain. You made a choice. You may fail
or succeed at various choices. But - you exercised and exercise
your free will. That is one big step, and is one to be proud of:
you are an individual who has taken responsibility for yourself!

Nuff said from the elitist!

Kaede

176.5 / 171 / 115
LC since 2/20/05
http://knakao.blogspot.com/