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Chowder

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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22 March 2004
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28 March 2004
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Penmart01
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  1. MANHATTAN CLAM CHOWDER Treat yourself to fresh clams for
    this recipe — they make all the difference. This dish
    originated in Rhode Island during the late 19th century,
    when, as story has it, Portuguese immigrants added tomatoes
    to their chowder. British New Englanders believed their
    creamy chowder to be superior and named the Portuguese
    version after Manhattan, presuming that New Yorkers were the
    only people crazy enough to add tomatoes.

    2 bacon slices, cut into 1/2-inch squares
    1/3 cup chopped onion 3 tablespoons diced (1/3 inch) green
    bell pepper 3 tablespoons diced (1/3 inch) celery
    2/3 cup diced (1/3 inch) peeled boiling potato (1 small) 1
    (8-oz) bottle clam juice 1 cup canned diced tomatoes (8
    oz), including juice 1 1/2 dozen small hard-shelled clams
    (1 1/2 to 2 inches in diameter; 2 lb total), scrubbed well
    2 tablespoons chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley

    Cook bacon in a 2- to 3-quart heavy saucepan over moderate
    heat, stirring, until golden, about 5 minutes. Reduce heat
    to moderately low, then add onion, bell pepper, and celery
    and cook, stirring, until softened, about 5 minutes. Stir in
    potato, bottled clam juice, and tomatoes (with juice) and
    simmer, covered, 10 minutes. Stir in clams and simmer,
    covered, stirring occasionally, until clams open wide, 8 to
    10 minutes. (Discard any clams that after 10 minutes have
    not opened.) Remove pan from heat.

    Remove most of clamshells with tongs, then detach clams and
    return them to chowder. (Keep a few in their shells for
    garnish.) Stir in parsley and salt and pepper to taste.

    Cooks' note: Chowder, without clams or parsley, can be made
    1 day ahead. Bring to a simmer before adding clams and
    proceeding.

    Makes 1 serving.

    Gourmet March 2004

    ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED
    NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be
    devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  2. "PENMART01" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    MANHATTAN CLAM CHOWDER

    Snip. Damned if I'll give this abomination a second showing.

    Sheldon, you really must be itching to start something.

    Felice

  3. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "PENMART01"wrote:

    MANHATTAN CLAM CHOWDER

    Snip. Damned if I'll give this abomination a second
    showing.

    ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED
    NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be
    devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  4. Felice Friese said:

    "PENMART01" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040322155629.22450.00000184@mb-
    m04.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:

    MANHATTAN CLAM CHOWDER

    Snip. Damned if I'll give this abomination a second
    showing.

    Sheldon, you really must be itching to start something.

    Felice

    No tomatoes in the clam chowder around here, either. They
    can keep that stuff in Manhattan.

    BOB

  5. " BOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Felice Friese said:

    "PENMART01" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040322155629.22450.00000184@mb-
    m04.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:

    MANHATTAN CLAM CHOWDER

    Snip. Damned if I'll give this abomination a second
    showing.

    Sheldon, you really must be itching to start something.

    Felice

    No tomatoes in the clam chowder around here, either. They
    can keep that


    stuff

    Quoted message said:

    in Manhattan.

    BOB

    Yeahbut....that's the way the portogeese in MA made it long
    time ago.....think cioppino.

    I know, I know, everyone likes the NE kind, but hell I go
    for the clear RI stuff. Errr...not to start the clam chowder
    shoe bangin' again.

    Jack Soupy

  6. BOB said:

    No tomatoes in the clam chowder around here, either. They
    can keep that stuff in Manhattan.

    In my corner of New England, many restaurants serve one sort
    or another of a good clam chowder in a tomato broth with
    vegetables. Some are spicy; some have more vegetables; some
    have a more clam flavor. All are humorously named after some
    place near Manhattan that they wish to insult. I no longer
    think anything of ordering the "Bronx Cheer Clam Chowder" or
    the "Joyzee Shore Clam Chowder."

    --Lia

  7. My sentiments exactly! I hate seafood with any tomato base.

    " BOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:
    Felice Friese said:

    "PENMART01" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040322155629.22450.00000184@mb-
    m04.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:

    MANHATTAN CLAM CHOWDER

    Snip. Damned if I'll give this abomination a second
    showing.

    Sheldon, you really must be itching to start something.

    Felice

    No tomatoes in the clam chowder around here, either. They
    can keep that


    stuff

    Quoted message said:

    in Manhattan.

    BOB

  8. Every recipe I've seen for Clam Chowder calls for either salt-
    pork, or bacon.

    Is this essential ?

    Do clams really need this ( flavor ) help ?

    <rj

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    BOB said:

    No tomatoes in the clam chowder around here, either. They
    can keep that stuff in Manhattan.

    Ever had Rhode Island clam chowder? Think of New England
    style with some tomatoes in it. It's actually pretty
    damn good.

    Beard has a good recipe for it in _American Cookery_
    as I recall.

    --
    Mark Shaw contact info at homepage -->
    panix.com~mshaw
    ========================================================================

    "[The Blues] is the kind of music that doesn't mince words
    -- it gets right to it." -Bonnie Raitt

  10. Mark Shaw said:

    Ever had Rhode Island clam chowder? Think of New England
    style with some tomatoes in it. It's actually pretty
    damn good.

    Noooo! I think you can get arrested for that up here. You're
    not allowed to have ketchup on the table when serving New
    England clam chowder. There are hidden microphones to make
    sure no one utters forbidden words of "tomato" or "red
    sauce." Violaters Will Be Prosecuted.

    --Lia

  11. Jack Schidt® said:


    " BOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:
    Felice Friese said:

    "PENMART01" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040322155629.22450.00000184@mb-
    m04.aol.com...
    > MANHATTAN CLAM CHOWDER

    Snip. Damned if I'll give this abomination a second
    showing.

    Sheldon, you really must be itching to start something.

    Felice

    No tomatoes in the clam chowder around here, either. They
    can keep that


    stuff

    Quoted message said:

    in Manhattan.

    BOB

    Yeahbut....that's the way the portogeese in MA made it long
    time ago.....think cioppino.

    I know, I know, everyone likes the NE kind, but hell I go
    for the clear RI stuff. Errr...not to start the clam
    chowder shoe bangin' again.

    Jack Soupy


    I don't see why the milk vs tomatoes thing is such a
    religious issue. Clam chowder is mostly messed up because
    the clams are cooked too long and get rubbery.

    The broth can be clear, red, white and be good or not so
    good. If you have made a fish stock use that. If you feel
    like tomatoes, why not? Or you can make it "New England"
    with a good dose of creme fraiche (evil grin).

    But don't overcook the clams! Or if you want to overcook the
    clams to get the broth the way you want it, take them out
    and use some more clams barely cooked to finish. Don't tell
    your guests you did this.

    Harumph grumble grumble . . . .

    Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

    "We have achieved the inversion of the single note." __
    Peter Ustinov as Karlheinz Stckhausen

  12. "Rodney Myrvaagnes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I don't see why the milk vs tomatoes thing is such a
    religious issue. Clam chowder is mostly messed up because
    the clams are cooked too long and get rubbery.

    The broth can be clear, red, white and be good or not so
    good. If you have made a fish stock use that. If you feel
    like tomatoes, why not? Or you can make it "New England"
    with a good dose of creme fraiche (evil grin).

    But don't overcook the clams! Or if you want to overcook
    the clams to get the broth the way you want it, take them
    out and use some more clams barely cooked to finish. Don't
    tell your guests you did this.

    Harumph grumble grumble . . . .

    I agree, as I enjoy all the clam chowder types and I've done
    the 'stock clams' thing before too. Another way to go is to
    take the shrimp shells out of the freezer and make a thin
    stock with them; it doesn't add a shrimpy flavor and rounds
    out the final chowder.

    Jack Sopa

  13. On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:14:06 -0500, "<RJ>" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Every recipe I've seen for Clam Chowder calls for either
    salt-pork, or bacon.

    Is this essential ?

    Do clams really need this ( flavor ) help ?


    THose are separate questions. You can make all sorts of clam
    soups that are not chowder, depending on how traditional
    your definition is.

    They do not "need" the help, but it is nice. I often make a
    soup of littlenecks with pasta and sliced cured pheasant
    sausage. A Portuguese-ish soup might have chorizo in it.

    All these definitions only matter if you are required
    (by a contest rule, or such) to make a "chowder," and
    not a "soup." If you are just making it to eat, do
    whatever you want.

    Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

    "We have achieved the inversion of the single note." __
    Peter Ustinov as Karlheinz Stckhausen

  14. In article <LI68c.65998$JL2.905992@attbi_s03>,

    Julia Altshuler said:
    Mark Shaw said:

    Ever had Rhode Island clam chowder? Think of New England
    style with some tomatoes in it. It's actually pretty
    damn good.

    Noooo! I think you can get arrested for that up here.
    You're not allowed to have ketchup on the table when
    serving New England clam chowder. There are hidden
    microphones to make sure no one utters forbidden words of
    "tomato" or "red sauce." Violaters Will Be Prosecuted.

    Heh. Come to the Dark Side, Lia....

    It's actually quite good. I happen to agree with James Beard
    on Manhattan style (as I recall, "an abomination; it's as
    though some clams were accidentally dumped into a pot of
    vegetable soup"😉, but Rhode Island style is delightful.

    Still, New England style rules.

    --
    Mark Shaw contact info at homepage -->
    panix.com~mshaw
    ========================================================================

    "Grown men are not comfortable explaining why they want to
    use the sniper rifle on fictional dogs with speech
    impediments." -James Lileks

  15. On 26 Mar 2004 01:16:55 -0500, [email hidden] (Mark

    Shaw) said:

    In article <LI68c.65998$JL2.905992@attbi_s03>, Julia

    Altshuler said:
    Mark Shaw said:

    Ever had Rhode Island clam chowder? Think of New
    England style with some tomatoes in it. It's actually
    pretty damn good.

    Noooo! I think you can get arrested for that up here.
    You're not allowed to have ketchup on the table when
    serving New England clam chowder. There are hidden
    microphones to make sure no one utters forbidden words
    of "tomato" or "red sauce." Violaters Will Be
    Prosecuted.

    Heh. Come to the Dark Side, Lia....

    It's actually quite good. I happen to agree with James
    Beard on Manhattan style (as I recall, "an abomination;
    it's as though some clams were accidentally dumped into a
    pot of vegetable soup"😉, but Rhode Island style is
    delightful.

    Still, New England style rules.

    Hmmm. This is the first time I've heard of Rhode Island
    style and frankly, I can't imagine them actually making an
    amalgam of the two recipes.

    Rhode Island was one of the last <if not dead last> to
    approve the US Constitution. LOL! They are individual
    thinkers and that recipe doesn't reflect their image.

    Practice safe eating - always use condiments

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    sf said:


    Hmmm. This is the first time I've heard of Rhode Island
    style and frankly, I can't imagine them actually making an
    amalgam of the two recipes.

    Well, no, it's not like making a batch of Manhattan and a
    batch of New England, and mixing them.

    Here's Beard's recipe, which is actually Fannie Farmer's:

    1 qt clams 3" cube salt pork 1 sliced onion
    1/2 cup cold water 4 cups potatoes cut in 3/4" cubes 2 cups
    boiling water 1 cup stewed and strained tomatoes
    2/4 tsp soda 1 cup scalded milk 1 cup scalded cream 2 tbsp
    butter salt & pepper 8 common crackers

    Scrub clams, steam open in 1 cup water, strain and reserve
    the liquid.

    Cook pork with onion and cold water 10 minutes. Parboil
    potatoes 5 minutes and drain. To potatoes add reserved clam
    liquor, clam- shells(?), and boiling water. When potatoes
    are nearly done add tomatoes, soda, clams, milk, cream, and
    butter. Season to taste. Split crackers, soak in cold milk
    to moisten, and warm in chowder.

    I guess you'd take the clamshells out before adding the milk
    and tomatoes, but Farmer refers to these as the "hard part
    of the clams, finely chopped," so maybe she actually means
    some part of the clam itself.

    --
    Mark Shaw contact info at homepage -->
    panix.com~mshaw
    ========================================================================

    "The longer you go, the more the music gets into the walls."

    - Muddy Waters

  17. Thanks for the recipe... it

    On 26 Mar 2004 20:19:16 -0500, [email hidden] (Mark

    Shaw) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    sf said:


    Hmmm. This is the first time I've heard of Rhode Island
    style and frankly, I can't imagine them actually making
    an amalgam of the two recipes.

    Well, no, it's not like making a batch of Manhattan and a
    batch of New England, and mixing them.

    Here's Beard's recipe, which is actually Fannie Farmer's:

    1 qt clams 3" cube salt pork 1 sliced onion
    1/2 cup cold water 4 cups potatoes cut in 3/4" cubes 2
    cups boiling water 1 cup stewed and strained tomatoes
    1/4 tsp soda 1 cup scalded milk 1 cup scalded cream 2
    tbsp butter salt & pepper 8 common crackers

    Scrub clams, steam open in 1 cup water, strain and
    reserve the liquid.

    Cook pork with onion and cold water 10 minutes. Parboil
    potatoes 5 minutes and drain. To potatoes add reserved
    clam liquor, clam- shells(?), and boiling water. When
    potatoes are nearly done add tomatoes, soda, clams, milk,
    cream, and butter. Season to taste.

    Soudns like a tastey recipe, but it seems like a combination
    of both types to me! What makes it unique?

    Quoted message said:

    I guess you'd take the clamshells out before adding the
    milk and tomatoes, but Farmer refers to these as the
    "hard part of the clams, finely chopped," so maybe she
    actually means some part of the clam itself.

    I vote for that small cylinder of connective tissue clams
    uses to adhere to their shells.

    Practice safe eating - always use condiments

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    sf said:

    On 26 Mar 2004 20:19:16 -0500, [email hidden] (Mark
    Shaw) wrote:

    [Beard/Farmer's Rhode Island Clam Chowder recipe]

    Quoted message said:

    Soudns like a tastey recipe, but it seems like a
    combination of both types to me! What makes it unique?

    I have to admit to an unfamiliarity with Manhattan Style
    chowder since discovering at an early age that I didn't like
    it, but as I recall it has a lot more in the way of
    vegetables in it, doesn't it?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I guess you'd take the clamshells out before adding the
    milk and tomatoes, but Farmer refers to these as the
    "hard part of the clams, finely chopped," so maybe she
    actually means some part of the clam itself.

    I vote for that small cylinder of connective tissue clams
    uses to adhere to their shells.

    Yeah, that makes sense.

    --
    Mark Shaw contact info at homepage -->
    panix.com~mshaw
    ========================================================================

    "How can any culture that has more lawyers than butchers
    call itself a civilization?" - Alton Brown

  19. Mark Shaw said:

    I have to admit to an unfamiliarity with Manhattan Style
    chowder since discovering at an early age that I didn't
    like it, but as I recall it has a lot more in the way of
    vegetables in it, doesn't it?

    Yes. Shh, don't tell my neighbors, but I like a Manhattan
    style clam chowder. This isn't a particular recipe, but in
    general, it has a broth made of part tomato product and part
    clam liquid. The consistency should be thin and the flavor
    rich. Then it should be filled with onions, chopped clams,
    crushed tomatoes, celery, carrots and vegetables you might
    find in a vegetable soup.

    The New England variety is thickened with potatoes or roux
    and is made with clams, potatoes, and cream.

    Both are easily lessened (not quite ruined) by restaurants
    trying to make a point and go overboard. Around here, for
    instance, you see restaurants trying for a thicker and
    thicker chowder until you get something with the
    consistency of paste. Moderation would be better, somewhat
    thick, nicely creamy and with the flavor of the clams. With
    that in mind, I got my best New England clam chowder in
    Seattle. I don't know how they made the stock they used in
    it, but it tasted wonderful. They added cream and didn't
    thicken it at all. Heaven.

    --Lia

  20. There seems not to be a lot of recipes in this thread to
    support anyone's theories, preferences or tastes.

    I like this chowder, because of the use of instant potatoes
    as thickener add more taste than a white sauce made from
    milk,flour and oil. Granted instant potatoes suck when
    served as mashed potatoes, but they seem to work well when
    used at this secondary task. To me any chowder has to be way
    thicker than a soup perhaps thicker than a stew.

    @@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

    Alan's Corn And Clam Chowder

    soups

    3-6 slices bacon; chopped 3 cup Clam stock 1 large onion;
    chopped 1 stalk leeks white and pale green only; rinsed well
    & sliced thin 2 ribs celery; chopped fine 1 medium carrot,
    peeled, chopped fine 1 red bell pepper; chopped .5 teaspoon
    dried rosemary .5 teaspoon dried taragon .5 teaspoon dried
    thyme 3 cups half and half or whole milk 1 lb red-skinned
    potatoes, peeled,; 1/2 inch diced 1 -8 oz bottle clam juice
    1 -15 oz can can creamed corn 3 -10 oz cans baby clams
    /juice from cans; added earlier salt and pepper; to taste
    just in case instant potatoes see note; for thickening

    Use the pot you are going to make the chowder in. A thick
    bottomed pot w
    lid. Sauté bacon in heavy medium pot over medium heat until
    fat begins to render, about 3 minutes. Add onion,
    celery, leek,red pepper and carrot and sauté until
    vegetables begin to soften, about 8 minutes. Add thyme
    and other spices; stir 30 seconds. Thyme is very good
    in this. Add potatoes, clam juice, juice from clam cans
    and clam stock . Cover pot, reduce heat to medium-low
    and simmer until potatoes are tender, about 20 minutes.
    Variable depends on size of dice. Add creamed corn and
    clams with juices plus the half and half; simmer about
    2 minutes. Careful here don't over cook clams. Season
    soup to taste with salt and pepper and serve.

    Note: If the broth is too thin, thicken by adding instant
    potatoes (1 or 2 handfuls is usually enough). Do not
    over-cook as clams will get chewy. It doesn't take
    long to thicken with instant potatoes...on or off the
    heat. Just stir lots. The flaked instant potatoes
    work better, don't clump up as much.

    You need a big pot.

    Yield: 25 servings

    ** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.65 **

    --
    Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on
    nothing but food and water.
    --------
    FIELDS, W. C.

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